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Cleaning Up Hamilton's Mess -- and Madison's

Posted: 12/23/11 06:11 PM ET

During the Constitutional Convention, Hamilton and Madison couldn't agree on what kind of president they wanted -- or how to choose one. So they turned it over to the states, giving the legislatures free rein to decide how to allot their electoral votes. After many twists and turns, we ended up with our present mongrel system: We take enormous pains to tally every vote but then allow most of them not to count.

The skunk in the garden party of democracy is the winner-take-all rule that 48 of the 50 states use (not Maine and Nebraska), although the Founders never envisaged it. For most of our history, it didn't systematically warp our politics, although it did allow minority candidates to win a fair number of presidential elections. But over the past several decades, as the country has settled into an evenly divided and fairly ideologically coherent two-party system, it has meant that, in running for re-election in 2004, George Bush didn't even bother to poll in 32 of the 50 states -- because he knew they were either lost to him or certain.

The cult of the battleground state, as intensified by the obsession with the swing voters who are assumed to deliver those states, relegates most of the country (and virtually all of the voters) to invisibility. Presidential candidates, campaigns, and first-term presidents, just don't care about most of us. In 2008, the presidential candidates, neither of them an incumbent, spent two-thirds of their time in just six states.

No Republican presidential campaign worries about voter registration or turnout in Texas. No Democrat sweats Massachusetts. A tiny handful of voters in Ohio, Florida, or even Nevada and Iowa, matter more than huge voting blocks of African-Americans in Mississippi and Alabama.

But because Madison and Hamilton couldn't agree and knew they were leaving a mess, they also left a solution. The states can -- and often do (Massachusetts almost a dozen times) -- change how they allocate their electors. The solution on the table today is the National Popular Vote. State legislatures are gradually joining a compact among themselves. Once states with more than half the electoral votes have joined, all of their electoral votes will go to the candidate who wins the popular vote. Every vote would count equally in every state in every election.

National Popular Vote doesn't abolish the Electoral College -- but it does perfect it by ensuring that we will never again elect a president who got fewer votes than his or her opponent did, and that both parties will have the incentive to campaign equally hard for every one of our votes. Thirty-one legislative chambers in 21 states have adopted NPV, and the reform is halfway to the magic number -- states representing 270 electoral votes.

It's one of the few political reforms around that seems to be garnering significant bipartisan support -- because leaders of both parties in the majority of the states that get ignored in the present system would like their voters to count.

Most of its serious detractors are on the right. Phyllis Schlafly and her Eagle Forum loathe it -- apparently, they are fixated on the fact that National Popular Vote would have sent Al Gore to the White House.

Senator Minority Leader Mitch McConnell also hates it, calling it "an absurd and dangerous idea," allegedly because in 1960 it would have a required a recount to see whether Nixon or Kennedy won the election. (In 1960, there was a recount in Hawaii. And, if Nixon had asked for one, there would have been one in Illinois, too. What's so dangerous?) But, really, McConnell hates it because it is faithful to the common, majoritarian ideals of both Hamilton and Madison.

What the Founders would find absurd and dangerous is the anti-popular form of politics over which McConnell currently presides. McConnell's vision of democracy (like that of today's House Republicans) builds on Newt Gingrich's subversive innovation, a system of parliamentary discipline in which Republican members of Congress owe their fealty to their party, not their electors. McConnell has added the distortion of the Senate's traditions of extended debate to create a permanent minority veto  -- explicitly rejected by all of the Founders -- of all legislative action, combined with the use of that veto to blackmail the majority into accepting policy proposals that have neither public nor adequate Congressional support to pass on their own. George III never enjoyed the ability to thwart the popular will in his parliament that McConnell has in today's Senate -- and McConnell's vision is to translate that ability to the White House as well.

The next time we elect a minority president, there will be a massive public outcry to get rid of the Electoral College. National Popular Vote gives us a simple way to preserve state leverage over presidential elections without amending the Constitution but still protecting us against electing a minority president. If you really line up with either Madison or Hamilton, you ought to like it.

 
 
 

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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
ThatsTheTheWayItIs
religion, ideology, partisanship are delusional
09:12 PM on 12/24/2011
The only election outcome in history this law would have changed was 2000, and even then Gore would have won in 2000 had SCOTUS not blocked a recount - itself an abridgement of state control over elections! This law is not necessary, and it's impossible to get passed in all states - and passing it in only some states would make elections even less fair.
10:18 PM on 12/24/2011
What about the infamous election of 1876 in which Samuel Tilden received a large majority of the popular votes and tied the electoral votes with Hayes, sending the election to the House of Representatives to decide and they chose Hayes? Also, I think Andrew Jackson received the most popular votes but lost the electoral votes to John Quincy Adams in 1824. There might be others, but those are the ones that come to mind.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mvy
12:31 PM on 12/27/2011
Since World War II, a shift of a few thousand votes in one or two states would have elected the second-place candidate in 4 of the 13 presidential elections. Near misses are now frequently common. There have been 6 consecutive non-landslide presidential elections. 537 popular votes won Florida and the White House for Bush in 2000 despite Gore's lead of 537,179 popular votes nationwide. A shift of 60,000 voters in Ohio in 2004 would have defeated President Bush despite his nationwide lead of over 3 Million votes.

When the bill is enacted by states possessing a majority of the electoral votes-- enough electoral votes to elect a President (270 of 538), all the electoral votes from the enacting states would be awarded to the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC.

The bill has passed 31 state legislative chambers, in 21 small, medium-small, medium, and large states. The bill has been enacted by 9 jurisdictions possessing 132 electoral votes -- 49% of the 270 necessary to bring the law into effect.

The National Popular Vote compact does not confer any advantage on states belonging to the compact as compared to non-compacting states. A vote cast in a compacting state would be, in every way, equal to a vote cast in a non-compacting state. The National Popular Vote compact certainly would not reduce the voice of voters in non-compacting states relative to the voice of voters in member states.
Viper
Former repub, still repenting
03:17 PM on 12/24/2011
A conservative is a person with two perfectly good feet, who has never learned to walk forward... FDR
03:17 PM on 12/24/2011
That whole Constitutional thing that has served the country for a couple of centuries - that's just so much jibberish that a bunch of old white guys put in place to prevent His Wonderfulness Who Loves America But Wants To Fundamentally Transform It Into Zimbabwe from getting his way.

This movement is the kind of thing that will cause the break up of the United States - and probably Civil War II.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mvy
12:38 PM on 12/27/2011
The Electoral College is now the set of dedicated party activists who vote as rubberstamps for presidential candidates. In the current presidential election system, 48 states award all of their electors to the winners of their state.

The Founding Fathers in the Constitution did not require states to allow their citizens to vote for president, much less award all their electoral votes based upon the vote of their citizens.

The presidential election system we have today is not in the Constitution. State-by-state winner-take-all laws to award Electoral College votes, were eventually enacted by states, using their exclusive power to do so, AFTER the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution.

Unable to agree on any particular method for selecting presidential electors, the Founding Fathers left the choice of method exclusively to the states in section 1 of Article II of the U.S. Constitution-- "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . ." The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as "plenary" and "exclusive."

The constitution does not prohibit any of the methods that were debated and rejected.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mvy
12:42 PM on 12/27/2011
A majority of the states in the nation's first presidential election in 1789, appointed their presidential electors using two of the methods rejected by the Founding Fathers. Presidential electors were appointed by state legislatures for almost a century.

Neither of the two most important features of the current system of electing the President (namely, universal suffrage, and the winner-take-all method) are in the U.S. Constitution. Neither was the choice of the Founders when they went back to their states to organize the nation's first presidential election.

In the nation's first election, the people had no vote for President in most states, only men who owned a substantial amount of property could vote, and only three states used the state-by-state winner-take-all method to award electoral votes.

The current 48 state-by-state winner-take-all method (i.e., awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in a particular state) is not entitled to any special deference based on history or the historical meaning of the words in the U.S. Constitution. It is not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, the debates of the Constitutional Convention, or the Federalist Papers. The actions taken by the Founding Fathers make it clear that they never gave their imprimatur to the winner-take-all method.

The constitutional wording does not encourage, discourage, require, or prohibit the use of any particular method for awarding the state's electoral votes.
Viper
Former repub, still repenting
03:14 PM on 12/24/2011
Pls note repubs, like all of our key founding fathers, Hamilton and madison were secular progressives...not Christians. Not free traders as the first law passed was a tarrif on imptrted MFG goods.

Conservatives were the torries who supported the britsh aristocracy..some things never really change.

The biggest compromise is in the senate, where-by Alaska with 1/30th the population of Callifornia gets the same representation.. This is true for many red states... such that forever, they get to extort FED money before anything can get passed and why red states on avg get back 50% more than they pay in, they are our welfare states.

regards

regards
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
frank day
Republican = FAIL
03:11 PM on 12/24/2011
Most people are completely unaware that the current system

has a Strong Rural Bias.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mvy
12:45 PM on 12/27/2011
Now political clout comes from being among the handful of battleground states. More than 2/3rds of states and voters are ignored.

None of the 10 most rural states (VT, ME, WV, MS, SD, AR, MT, ND, AL, and KY) is a battleground state.
The current state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes does not enhance the influence of rural states, because the most rural states are not battleground states.
02:28 PM on 12/24/2011
Whether the candidate with 49% of the vote beats the candidate with 51% of the vote is irrelevant next to the fact that 100% of the population is subject the tyranny of less than 25%. Stop debating the quirky rules of a game that shouldn't even be played.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Evelyn
11:25 PM on 12/24/2011
How so?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Talossa
Not all liberals are silly.
01:06 PM on 12/24/2011
> The next time we elect a minority president, there will be a massive public outcry to get rid of the Electoral College.

No, the next time the outcome of a presidential election is in doubt, the Supreme Court will step in and award the office to the Republican.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mvy
12:46 PM on 12/27/2011
In a situation in which no candidate gets a majority of the electoral votes, with the current system, the election of the President would be thrown into the U.S. House (with each state casting one vote) and the election of the Vice President would be thrown into the U.S. Senate.

The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC). All the 270+ electoral votes from all the states that have enacted the bill would be awarded, as a bloc, to the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. The bill would thus guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tutorintoledo
Conservative AND Liberal. Depends on the issue!
12:32 PM on 12/24/2011
I totally disagree with this, as this would allow our big cities and the population and ideas they hold to choose our president. This is unfair representation.

If you go for 'popular vote' then New York, California and several other big states with large cities have way more power than they deserve. They already have more electoral votes than most smaller states combined. Do the small cities and rural areas get a say at all? Madness.

To support this you'd have to be a Democrat and live in a large city. It won't happen. :p
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Talossa
Not all liberals are silly.
01:07 PM on 12/24/2011
Yep, allowing "the population" to elect the president would be wrong. The GOP needs all sorts of constitutional gimmicks to preserve its built-in advantages that the people foolishly try to take away.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tutorintoledo
Conservative AND Liberal. Depends on the issue!
02:40 PM on 12/24/2011
The trouble with this is there is more than one 'population' in the US. The US is simply too big to run like that. Do you think that inner city Chicago, rural Nebraska, Maine, Alaska, and Utah have anything in common? One is worried about homelessness and factories, one with fishing rights, one with corn prices... We are NOT one homogenous people... we are states that are united. We are a republic. To allow 'the popuation' to decide would grant excessive power to those in the big cities and leave the corn, fish, rural, and logging people 'out to pasture' so to speak. Leave it as it is.
02:06 PM on 12/24/2011
Wait... counting all the votes and applying them according to the count--in other words, letting actual votes decide the winner in a voting election--is wrong? Instead, the two states with the majority of the population of the country can have have their much more numerous votes overridden by a handful of small state politicians, often to economically detrimental effect.

Why are Republicans so scared of this idea? As a "liberal", I'd have to actually let those millions of unapplied Republican votes be counted toward the national total, while they currently get none of them. I'm completely OK with that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tutorintoledo
Conservative AND Liberal. Depends on the issue!
02:42 PM on 12/24/2011
As I said above, the 'more numerous' are not necessarily the ones to make decisions for the 'less numerous', as they may not care, many not understand, or may not even know the situation in a localized area. :) There are many ways to be a 'minority'. We rural minority members have rights too and don't want to fall under rule of the big population centers! LOL... we see what you've done there and want no part of it!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hawkeye58
Open to the truth...
12:30 PM on 12/24/2011
For all the "experts" commenting on our democracy, we are not a democracy. The United States is a representative republic. There is a distinct difference:

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html
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JBS
Part time misanthrope & full time curmudgeon
01:07 PM on 12/24/2011
The United States is a democracy. All democracies are not representative republics, but all representative republics are democracies.
02:10 PM on 12/24/2011
Unless the representatives, once elected, ignore their constituents and represent their corporate donors, of course.
04:03 PM on 12/24/2011
Fair enough. But Hawkeye's point remains. Ours is a distinct kind of democracy, a representative republic.
11:51 AM on 12/24/2011
Why have representative elections at all. Mass anarchy with 300 million candidates seems to be what will appeal to progressives.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Viable Way
05:45 PM on 12/24/2011
I guess your name says it all.

What about Progressives leads to anarchy and 300 million candidates? (many under the age of 18 or 25 or 35, I might add)
11:30 AM on 12/24/2011
the "mess" that you refer to has been working well for over 200 years. enough said. its only when you mess/change the constitution does the nation unravel.. and they will say do the remember the United States??
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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parlimentMike
Don't settle for less evil, demand good
11:34 AM on 12/24/2011
It really didn't work well in 2000.
04:06 PM on 12/24/2011
I don't know if you're referring to the 2000 outcome or the 2000 process.
.
I'll just address the process. 2008 was a mess due to the closeness of the vote in Florida.
.
If you think that was messy, imagine a really close election based on a pure popular vote.
.
Bottom line -- there is no perfect system.
Citizen54
Conservatism is a con job!
12:39 PM on 12/24/2011
Why are Americans so resistant to change. Why are we afraid to consider something that might improve our democratic republic?
This it's-good-enough attitude is part of what's turning the country into a has-been nation.

Why sail across the Atlantic, 15th Century explorer? Europe has been working for us for thousands of years. Why go to the Moon? We've been stuck here on Earth for millions of years. It's been working for us.
02:33 PM on 12/24/2011
You're pointing out the divide between progressives & conservatives. We want progress, they want things to stay the same.

It seems to me that we could make the world a much better place if they stopped throwing up roadblocks and diversions. Their mindset frustrates me.
04:10 PM on 12/24/2011
This is a silly comparison. Are you somehow suggesting that there is a correlation between those who are politically conservative and those who are or are not explorers?
.
If anything the opposite is true. Economic conservatives want to encourage risk while economic Lefties want to encourage security regardless of risk.
.
11:22 AM on 12/24/2011
This ‘solution’ isn’t cleaning up - it is patching up. This is like de-criminalizing something by having the President pardon everyone who is convicted. The 10 states with the largest populations have as many people as the remaining 40 states combined - in theory if a Presidential candidate could win every vote in those states; then they could ignore 80% of the states entirely. The Founders did not want potential that big state dominance in the Senate and, with all its imperfections, the Electoral College prevents it in the selection of the President. The Founders created a mechanism for revising the Constitution - the proposed solution circumvents that also.
04:10 PM on 12/24/2011
F & F.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mvy
02:06 PM on 12/27/2011
With the current state winner-take-all system of awarding electoral votes, winning a bare plurality of the popular vote in the 11 most populous states, containing 56% of the population, could win the Presidency with a mere 26% of the nation's votes.
11:16 AM on 12/24/2011
You do realize that very few democracies elect their presidents by direct popular vote? Frankly, it's more a tool of authoritarian regimes than democratic ones. For example, every Central Asian dictatorship (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kirghizstan, Tajikstan, etc.) "elects" its president, while the only nation in Europe that holds a direct presidential election is France.

In fact, among democracies, direct presidential election is pretty much restricted to France and Latin America. Neither make great examples, as France only started 50 years ago with the Fifth Republic, and Latin American nations have only recently started holding truly democratic elections.

The nations of Canada, Great Britain, Germany, Spain, Japan, Israel, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, etc. all rely on some sort of indirect method to choose their president (or prime minister for those that still have monarchs as head of state). Yet none of them seem to be any less representative or democratic as a result.

We all remember the mess of the 2000 Presidential election. The butterfly ballots and hanging chads of Florida are etched in historical memory. But what if we switch to a popular vote, and the national vote comes out that close? We let each local jurisdiction set rules for polling, registration, ballot design, etc. Rather than the dozen or so lawsuits that Bush vs. Gore sparked, you'd end up with hundreds.

This proposal seems more likely to create problems rather than fix them.
Viper
Former repub, still repenting
03:20 PM on 12/24/2011
Many of those who do not elect their presidents by direct voet, dont have presidents, they have prime miisters and a parliamnetry form of government.
04:12 PM on 12/24/2011
Good information and thoughts. F & F.
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SeenItBefore
Ya want to super size that?
11:15 AM on 12/24/2011
After reading all, the comments, one person, one vote seems to be the only fair and sane way to handle elections... and it'll never happen. There would be less opportunity (Uvalde TX notorious Precinct 13) for a fix and no chance of being approved by the powers that be.
11:08 AM on 12/24/2011
So in effect, there would no longer be battleground states. There would be battleground cities. Win a handful of them and those big cities would rule the rest of the country. Candidates would have even less reason to care about even wider swaths of the country, with the coasts controlling the elections and all the rest of the country falling into irrelevancy. The current system gives voice to the people who live in less populous states and whose interests may be far different from those in the big urban centers. The change suggested would divide the country on far starker terms than the winner-take-all system does now.
While a popular vote may seem attractive, one must consider that there may be unintended consequences before calling for a change.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Viable Way
05:50 PM on 12/24/2011
As a voter in a RED State, I resent that my vote for president never counts. It encourages people to avoid voting and THAT is a terrible unintended consequence.
07:03 PM on 12/24/2011
...and as a voter in an interior state, I would resent that my vote would never count without the electoral college. The urban voters in the states with concentrated populations in cities that began as shipping centers for inland goods would bleed the rest of the country dry. I would think that the recourse would be for you and others to work to persuade others to see things your way. Reds switch to blue and vice versa all the time.
03:35 PM on 12/25/2011
The most terrible of THAT unintended consequence must be the Iraq War. And the most unbearable and horrible legacy from THAT unintended consequence is surely kind of anti-Muslim or even anti-Arab war perceived by the whole world.
(I think one of the major achievements, maybe the biggest, by Obama is that he has done so much in such a great effort to change this feeling and thinking from the Arab Muslim world. And President Barack Obama has almost succeeded as of now. Four more years will be adding to more such improvement and finally leading to much if not full approval of Arabs and Muslims. I want myself to be the one of such humans helping this great man accomplish this.)
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mvy
02:36 PM on 12/27/2011
With National Popular Vote, big cities would not get all of candidates’ attention, much less control the outcome.
The population of the top five cities (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston and Philadelphia) is only 6% of the population of the United States and the population of the top 50 cities (going as far down as Arlington, TX) is only 19% of the population of the United States. Suburbs and exurbs often vote Republican.

If big cities controlled the outcome of elections, the governors and U.S. Senators would be Democratic in virtually every state with a significant city.