There's an Albert Einstein quote that's making the rounds on Facebook, one that I also had as my status because it says exactly how I feel: "If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
Many of us know people whose hope for reward goes hand in hand with fear of punishment. It is often this fear that propels them to become zealots and they use Bible verses -- such as "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" (2 Timothy 4:2 KJV) -- to justify their cause. These same people like to dangle the threat of hell and damnation to those who don't accept this belief while then exclaiming that God is a loving, forgiving God; it's just a matter of first rationalizing what is required to go down this condemnatory road.
So while these people, these fundamentalists, are doing their lord's work, such as speaking for their higher power on his behalf by telling the grieving families of dead soldiers that the death was God's punishment for America's stance on homosexuality, they are securing their place for everlasting peace. What's interesting and tragic is that these people tend to ignore Matthew 7:1: "Judge not, that ye be not judged."
I do wonder, though, if heaven weren't part of the bargain, just how these believers would be in our society. This thought actually reminds me of years ago when I believed that the Bible was inspired. I'm embarrassed to say that I was involved in a fundamentalist church, attended Bible studies (even led some) and had Christian music pouring through my house praising God for redemption. There was one song in particular by Evie Tornquist titled "If Heaven was Never Promised to Me" about how a believer should be grateful to have a relationship with God, even if that afterlife wasn't part of the deal. I also have a vivid memory of how two older Bible-believing women thought the song and very idea foolish, one of the women even pooh-poohing the idea by saying, "Why would anyone believe then?"
That was quite likely one of the reasons for the tiny fissures that began to crack what I had accepted as truth during my religious journey. And over time, it became abundantly clear that the idea of everlasting peace in a place called heaven was the carrot and stick approach, one that was used to keep us fallible humans not only in line but subservient to an idea. It's also the same tack that parents use somewhere around Christmas time when they threaten their children that Santa is watching to see if they are good or bad. If they are good, well, they will get an abundance of gifts under the tree on Christmas morning, but if not, well then, a lump of coal is in their future.
But in the song "Santa Claus Is Coming to Town," children are then told to be good for goodness sake. Actually, that makes more sense to me. Why not simply be good because it's the right thing to do? It's as though some believe most of us don't have that innate compass telling us to do unto others as we would like done to ourselves. In turn, those same people who believe their faith is the only one to follow with vehement passion become arrogant, judgmental and display a misguided fervor that is dangerous to an independent society, which makes us a sorry lot, indeed.
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Surely not the evil hate of lying of those, to a dead soldiers family, you mentioned. BUT they could have said for the Evil Karma a Nation State has done interfering in unprovoked war and occupation. That surely would ring of at least truth instead. Neither would be the Spirit "kind one to the other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another.
and if we look close we all cherry pick our quotes. have not met a religious person or a materialist that did not cherry pick. the preachers appear to be the very best at cherry picking quotes from the bible.
einstein actually considered himself a failure. he was unable to make quantum physics fit his existing paradigm of what he thought the laws of the universe should be. ie he stayed a materialist (but had brief hints of a spiritual awaking) to the very end.
here come the judgments; here come the judgments. :-)
This seems to ignore the Christian theologial concept of grace. I don't know what you were taught and I don't know what the funeral-protestors are on about (as far as I'm concerned, Westboro Baptist Church is about as much a model representing Christians as Joseph Stalin is for representing Atheists) - but in the theology I've known, no one can *earn* their way to Heaven (that's the whole reason for Jesus). Maybe some people calling themselves Christians think they can build a stairway, but from every serious Christian I've known I've gotten the impression that they *do* do "good for goodness sake." - Belief may get one to Heaven in their ideaology, but actually doing the right thing doesn't really matter other than "You do this to please God / because all people are created in the image of God / because every life, including yours has a meaning."
Again, maybe uber-fundamentalists are different, but from what I've known, I don't know where non-believers get this whole "You're only good to get to Heaven" idea - unless it's just from the media/shallow pop-culture we grow up in.
It would seem impossible for fundamentalists to be good for goodness sake. Because their supernatural surrogate parent would not be watching.
If you put a tip in a tip jar and no one saw does it count?
Ephesians 4
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ
Me I would say it was a Buddha, a Krishna, a Christ, The Spirit
Be good, for goodness' sake.
Placed there by the same people who say there is only GRACE and no DEED. Believe and take all you want. Boy that does sound like people who could not give up Santa Clause
Gimmy, Gimmy Wanna Wanna
The "embarassment" cited in regards to church and Christian music really struck me. I'm no longer a churchgoer and some of the CDs I have I haven't listened to in years and think "I used to like that?" - But it doesn't come with so much...contempt. I accept that stage of my life and, I never gave up actually believing. I still believe, just in my own way, apart from politics and as far as the arts, I seek out the good stuff rather than the saccharine. No longer a fan of DC Talk, still a fan of U2.
As I see it, everyone who is certain of anything in these matters should doubt, at least a little. Believe in God and Heaven? Take a littel time out to doubt. Believe that there's absolutely no God and that all we do is rot? Doubt it a little. Please. It will help you to not see the people who are different from you as sub-humans.
And speaking of that... I think that if you're *only* doing good to "build a stairway to Heaven," there is a problem, but that there's *just as much* of a problem if you're somene who's doing good *only* to feel like you're *better* than those who are seeking Heaven. Either way is prideful. Do good without contempt or pride.
Heaven, is a symbolic state of going towards and becoming the Spirit, as Hell is the symbolic state of choosing the material world and going away from becoming the Spirit. Christ taught each person to choose to become the Spirit over the material limited body and mind. He spoke of the Deed of doing good deeds of good over evil and the Grace becoming THE SPIRIT.
Not for reward or saving your body and mind from the Hell (how many times can the body burn or die). But to escape the cause and effect and limitation of the material world of unending emotions and desire. Instead be come aware, conscious that you are the light and energy of the Universe. GOD or Cosmic Consciousness.
Me I like John Fogerty, Allman Brother and Bad Company.
I've also seen the completely secular saying regarding the punishment end: "Some people are only alive becuase it is illegal to kill them." Sadly, I think this is true for some people.
My algebra teacher had that on her wall in high school. Im surprised nobody asked her to take it down.
In both cases, we're nibbling at the edge of atruism, but one is a lot less judgemental than the other.
"The religious feeling engendered by experiencing the logical comprehensibility of profound interrelations is of a somewhat different sort from the feeling that one usually calls religious. It is more a feeling of awe at the scheme that is manifested in the material universe. It does not lead us to take the step of fashioning a god-like being in our own image - a personage who makes demands of us and who takes an interest in us as individuals. There is in this neither a will nor a goal, nor a must, but only sheer being. For this reason, people of our type see in morality a purely human matter, albeit the most important in the human sphere." Albert Einstein
Moral questions can and should be investigated outside of the influence of religion and extremism.
May be you have defined a new religion, THE DORIS DAY religion
-Que Sera, Sera
It seems like your are agreeing to the following. I know agree is not you being. But this is a Human Being in the most sense of Being to me.
Ephesians 4
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;