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Carol Muske-Dukes

Carol Muske-Dukes

Posted: February 20, 2011 11:23 AM

Bill Maher is a hero of mine. He is brilliant, wildly funny, politically astute, a living antidote to media-speak and partisan yammering. But last Friday night on Real Time, Bill Maher missed the Real Point. It's the misogyny, stupid.

This point was made by Tavis Smiley, in response to Maher's broad statement on the show about how women are treated in Muslim countries. The recent attack on reporter Lara Logan in Egypt was shocking and yet depressingly unsurprising. There is no question that, in many Muslim countries, women who do not wrap themselves in yards of cloth are considered fair game for sexual assault by men. Years ago, because of a flight delay, I spent a long and terrifying night alone in a hotel in Morocco -- male ( Muslim) hotel employees repeatedly tried to break into my room. It was a lesson in how bad it can get for a woman alone in a culture that undermines female independence at every turn.

Maher wanted Smiley to acknowledge a readily-acknowledgeable fact -- that women in these repressive cultures are "worse off" than in the West. Which is worse, he asked, "making eighty cents on a dollar" or "having your head cut off"?

Trick question? It is pointless to argue against the fact that women are treated appallingly, that they are abused and in some cases, murdered, in these countries. I would prefer not to have my head separated from my body but I ALSO don't want to work for substantially less money in the same job as a man. It's a ways from eighty cents to a scimitar, but it's the same sad road.

This was Tavis Smiley's argument, which fell pretty much on deaf ears. He mentioned the patriarchy of the West, its sexism and how the media is saturated with stories of maltreatment of women in our own country.

His point was that comparisons generate heat but no light: he quoted Malcolm X on degrees of oppression -- "If the knife is nine inches in my back and it's withdrawn to six inches" -- am I better off?

It's the misogyny, stupid. And it cuts across all cultures: far worse in some, somewhat tolerable in others. And the "F" word is fundamentalism -- whether it is Islamic or Christian -- the symbol of battle for control becomes the female body.

I do not want to live in a country that forces me to smother myself in veils, a country that threatens me with violence for an inch of visible wrist, a country that does not allow me to vote or drive.

For the record, I also do not feel safe in a country with a House of Representatives that is capable of canceling all funding for Planned Parenthood -- which happened in the House just a day ago. I do not feel safe knowing that in South Dakota, Republicans proposed a bill that could make it legal to murder a doctor who provides abortion care to women.

The state legislature of Georgia would like to change the legal term for victims of rape, stalking and domestic violence to "accuser" -- in effect, denying victims their right to accurate representation by description.

In Congress, Republicans have put forward a bill that would force hospitals to let a woman die rather than perform an abortion that would save her life.

Programs for low-income women and children are being slashed left and right and MoveOn reports that there is a move to eliminate all funding for the only extant federal family planning program -- though there is a bill that promotes contraception for wild horses. (For human women, they are neigh-sayers.)

Misogyny keeps this country's brutality to women -- rape, murder and domestic violence -- at staggering levels, along with the pitched battle against a woman's right to control her own body, her right to choose.

That women often do not support each other or offer sympathy for abusive treatment of other women is indeed part of the problem -- witness the reaction of some female journalists to the attack on Lara Logan.

I was terrified when I was nearly assaulted in that hotel room in North Africa long ago, but I have also been attacked by "Right to Life" crowds when entering an abortion clinic in my own country.

Tavis Smiley was right -- it is important to speak out against the suppression of women's rights and their subjugation wherever in the world this occurs. There's always a war against women going on -- it's just a matter of degree in the matter of the incoming fire.

-- Carol Muske-Dukes

P.S. Be sure to check out the article "Georgia Representative Wants To Investigate All Miscarriages".



 
 
 
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04:59 PM on 03/05/2011
I agree with Maher on many issues, and his point about democracy and women's treatment are valid points. What he DOES NOT get that Smiley was saying is that regardless of degree of severity of poor treatment, women in THIS country are not treated as EQUALS either and therefore that speaks to OUR level of democracy and that we need to work on this as well. Maher believes that he is justified in his argument because women in the U.S. have to only worry about asinine things such as making $0.80 for equal work and experience to a man's $1.00 versus "Muslim" women having to worry about having their heads cut off by "Muslim" men (he clearly is in denial of his own views towards women and the fact that 1.3 MILLION WOMEN in this country are PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED by an intimate partner each year IN the U.S.) THE POINT TAVIS IS MAKING IS THAT WOMEN ARE TREATED POORLY IN THE U.S. TODAY AND THE DEGREE OF PREJUDICE DOES NOT MATTER. THE CHOICE OF EARNING $0.20 CENTS LESS THAN SOMEONE ELSE SHOULD NOT BE BASED ON ONE'S GENDER.
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06:36 PM on 02/25/2011
Lara Logan's attack appears to be in part racist, xenophobic and anti-semetic (people were chanting "jew" while attacking her). If an Arab Muslim reporter were sexually assaulted in Isreal by several dozen Isreali Jews chanting "Arab" or "Muslim" people would be going bonkers with claims this is proof of what a faicst state Isreal is. The Islamic world would most certainly be making very blanket and hateful generalizations about Israel and/or Jews. The west and Isreal are always taken to task for hate crimes and our tolerence is questioned. Why shouldn't it be a two way street?
Many posters have questioned whether Bill was really sympathetic to the plight of Arab women. This is misguided. If Egyptian Muslims are going to come to the west and expect equality and if there is going to be outrage when they are targeted for hate crimes I expect this to be a two way street. This is not a question of just Arab women because it happened in Egypt- women of all ethnicities and religions have a right to demand a basic level of decency towards them there, just like Muslims and Arabs who travel to different cultures demand it towards them. it's not considered inappropriate when they demand it, but when we do it you are only two seconds away from being called "culturally insensitive" or "this is why the world hates America"
02:17 PM on 02/26/2011
In addition to being called "culturally insensitve," if most Egyptians and Arabs are semites, you might even be two seconds away from being called "anti-semitic." I'm curious how free people would feel to denigrate and demonize Arabs if it were referred to as anti-semitism?
10:55 PM on 02/24/2011
I disagree. You're assumption is that Maher was missing the point. But Maher was the one making the point. Tavis missed Maher's (and vice-versa I agree), but it was Maher's point to miss, not Tavis's. If somebody asked me if I'd prefer a paper-cut to my arm slashed off, the best answer is, "YES". If I were to miss the point, I'd say "I want neither," because that wasn't the question.
12:57 AM on 02/25/2011
One of the first things Tavis said to Maher was, "Let me say up front, I agree with you".......Then he went on to make another ( totally related ) point. You're acting - like Maher - as though there were limits on the conversation that Tavis was supposed to understand. And maybe there were, but I don't think that's good hosting.
04:17 PM on 02/24/2011
For christ's sake, Maher, check the arrogance at the door for once. Shouting about how we treat women better in America is about as valuable as running down the street yelling, "The ocean is wet! Did you hear how smart I am? The ocean is really, really wet." I admire your brashness, but it is usually directed at ignorance, not at people like Tavis Smiley -- who spoke more intelligently than you, and who also made a much more interesting and serious point!

Carol M-D, thanks for pointing this out.
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04:51 PM on 02/24/2011
Smiley is a fan and promoter of Louis Farrakhan and his black Muslim hate group Nation of Islam yet tells Maher not to "demonize" Muslims? That's like a fan of the KKK telling the NAACP not to demonize whites. Hypocrite.
01:08 AM on 02/25/2011
First, can you please provide evidence that he is a "promoter" of the Nation of Islam?.....Second, are you aware that Smiley has repeatedly called Martin Luther King, Jr. "the greatest American this country has ever produced"?......Third, I'll admit to having found this article through a Google search for Tavis's website -- but I wonder what drew you to this forum? That's an awfully loaded statement to make about someone if you just happened to stop by here.
07:35 PM on 02/23/2011
And don't forget - while major budget cuts are made to programs for women & children - the Fatherhood Initiative - which reunifies ex-convicts with CHILDREN and "promotes" marriage - has seen NO CUTS whatsoever - $5 M is going to an unethical social experiment reunifying children with ex-prisoners. It's stomach-turning.
04:48 PM on 02/23/2011
One of the glaring omissions from alot of the feedback that I've read regarding Bill Maher's comments is who exactly is he referring to (denigrating). If you ask me it seemd like a blatant attempt to get some anti-muslim statement out there. The statement didn't seem to fit the flow of the show.
Watch it and try to figure out for yourself; he refers to muslims, arabs and middle easterners interchangeably. And the man who beheaded his wife was neither arab or middle-eastern. It's a total shame that the guests let him slide on this.
Not all Arabs are muslims; they are also jewish, christisan and Catholic
Not all middle easterners are muslims- where the hell is Israel? not in the middle east?
Not all muslims are arab or middle easterners.
A "muslim country" elected a woman prime minister before the US elected a woman President.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-slams-muslim-mens-treatment-of-women-gets-heckled-by-audience-member/
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toxicshock
Sassy, snarky, smart
11:24 PM on 03/11/2011
I'm willing to guess that there was a lot going on at that time, so it was difficult for the other guests to mention it. The bickering went back and forth very quickly!
02:21 PM on 02/23/2011
Like a lot of comics (judging the material I've heard), Maher is a borderline misogynist himself.
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AcademicFreedom
Often banned; always factual
01:02 PM on 02/23/2011
You were "attacked" when entering an abortion clinic? I've looked for a reference, a court case, arrests, etc. Were you "verbally attacked" or "physically attacked"? While both are not appropriate, there is a huge difference - I've been verbally attacked by hundreds of people throughout my life; I've only been physically attacked (mugged) once. If you were physically attacked, I hope your called the police and had the attackers arrested.
11:58 AM on 02/23/2011
It is funny when Maher actually gives America a half of a compliment it gets people up in arms...As often as he forcefully puts down America, Conservatives,Christians, Catholics,Capitalism etc, he gets a barrage of backlash for even mentioning a simple truth...Women have more liberty and freedom in America than they do in the Middle East...And Tavis as so many others are so sensitive of fearful that a comment like the might be misconstrued as a put down to the middle east...Its laughable and utterly sad how such a large group of Americans and the rest of the world are so hell bent on putting down America when it does offer so much to its citizens. Every day more and more americans are acting like a bunch of spoiled ungrateful children that only want to curse their parents when they have so much to be thankful for.It's all perspective and the ones who were offended by Mahers comments most likely spend most of their lives being offended...its a choice and a sad one at that.
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ruolivert
02:29 PM on 02/23/2011
I think people are just tired of American arrogance. Everyone knows that America gives more rights and freedoms then Middle Eastern countries but pointing to the Middle East and saying we're better then you are, which Maher was basically doing, does nothing to help women any where. It implies that we don't have any more work to do, it implies that the Middle East should be more like America, it implies one only needs to look at America to see how a perfect country operates. The statement that America treats women better the another country may be true but serves no real purpose
06:30 PM on 02/22/2011
Maher should not be attacked, he should be commended. Maher attacks American culture probably more deeply than anyone on US television. He cannot be accused of belittling Arab culture, any more than he does ours. Cultural/historical relativism are interesting academic debates, but, as the expression goes, when the building's afire, you don't ask how it started. If this is an opportunity to push for fundamental women's freedoms in the Middle East, then grab it while we can: don't cloud the issue. We need to put these women before ourselves, their needs are greater and more immediate. If all we can do is use this opportunity to gripe about our own, albeit legitimate concerns, it does not show American women in a positive light. The West obviously is no shining example, but as long as there are cultures that exist where the most basic fundamental rights of women are abused, they will always be a dangerous reverse example & inspiration for the not so latent misogyny of men in freer societies.
American feminists suffer from ADHD as much as the general population, and have failed from Afghanistan to the Congo, so it's about time they started being a lot more concentrated, consistant and tactical in their approach. We can still work locally for women's rights at the appropriate moment, but if someone like Maher is making an argument for women's rights in a particular region, do not try to obscure it for political or philosophical points about our own shortcomings.
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ruolivert
07:47 PM on 02/22/2011
A lot of people don't think he was simply making an argument for women's rights in the Middle East but saying that America treats women better which will inplies that America is better then the Middle East. Attitudes like that will on reinforce the current situation.
05:11 PM on 02/22/2011
Carole Muske-Dukes,
Thank your for providing a thoughtful stimulus to this debate. Obviously many people were affected in different ways by Bill Maher's show the other night. Although there were opinions on all sides of the issue, most of the comments, like yours, reflected overall respect for Maher's humor, intellect and courage on controversial issues. On this particular issue many of us disagreed with him. In my view, many of the people who defended Maher did so out of a genuine concern about women's issues and the status of women in the Middle East. We also got to hear the opinions of some who hold some very negative views of Arab men and Arab cultures, which in my view are not difficult to understand in light of the way Arabs have been portrayed in the media since 9/11 and frankly, in my memory, since the Iranian embassy crisis. For those who really care about the well-being of Arab women and women in general, I believe we are all on the same page and can learn from one-another.
11:31 AM on 02/22/2011
He wasn't saying that women's issues and violence against them were ok in America, he was pointing out that the level is differeent. Something that is absolutly valid.

you cannot brush off the differences of say, a country where a 9 year old girl can be sold by her parents into verityable rape slavery legally, and a situation like the U.S. in which there is violence against women, but it is illegal and prosecutable.

This reminds me of the situation years ago where so many women's groups were so focused on their battle against Playboy and porn, that the ERA slipped away.
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ruolivert
01:44 PM on 02/22/2011
You can find examples of women of all ages being treated poorly in this country. Take a trip to a battered women's shelter or look at the statistics on rape in this country. Yeah our sexism and mysogeny may be illegal but to honestly say that we are superior to other countries is exactly what Tavis said about pulling a 9" knife 6" inches out of my back; you may call it progress but I've still got a blade in between my shoulders.
11:08 AM on 02/22/2011
I agree that women have it better here than in Arab countries. However, it's because American men and women who are progressive LEADERS have made our laws more favorable to women. It's not necessarily because American man are all more enlightened than Arab men. I think the point the author is making is that there are still plenty of misogynistic American men who would like to change the laws to make us more like the Arab countries. So you cannot blame it all on race.
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Cal3b G
02:53 AM on 02/22/2011
Maher made a stupid argument. So because women had their head cut off in one country, then it's okay to pay them less than men for equal work in another country?! Why are they relevant to one another?
11:48 AM on 02/22/2011
Maher did not make the argument you posted..That is inconsistent with him and his show to think he was justifying any mistreatment of women on any level. He was saying that women have it better in America which in general, is the absolute truth.
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Cal3b G
01:32 PM on 02/22/2011
Ok.. So who the hell cares? This is relevant to the discussion how?
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ruolivert
01:49 PM on 02/22/2011
Its only absolute depending on who you ask. 1 in 6 woman are raped in this country and most rapes go unreported. If you asked the receptionist at a battered women's shelter about the difference between America and other countries she may have a different opinion. That was Tavis's point: we in America can't simply say we are better when its not that simple. Its more accurate to say that some women in America are much better off women in Muslim countries but to assume that every woman in the US is better of here then another country is short sighted and naive
jusathot
a mother from another mother
11:08 PM on 02/21/2011
A reporter from Mother Jones also talks about being at the one good hotel in Haiti, and having other American guests, and a variety of other men trying her doorknobs at night.