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Caroline Heldman

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Defying Gender Norms in Relationships

Posted: 06/08/10 09:00 AM ET

This post is part of the "Modern Male Brains & the Young, Powerful Women Who Love Them" series compiled by Dr. Louann Brizendine, neuroscientist and author of the recent book, The Male Brain. The series explores how the next generation of women relates to love while balancing complex, stressful lives.

After years of not actively searching, I have found deep love and happiness with an incredible person. He requires very little prodding to rise above his patriarchal upbringing, is elated that I make more money than he does, and is toying with the idea of taking my last name, just to highlight the absurd gendered nature of this practice. He is my "partner in crime" every day in every way.

Prior to this relationship, I had only ever dated older, "accomplished" men, but I found the love of my life in a brilliant, confident, much younger man. Go figure.

I owe my good fortune of finding such a compatible partner to not settling for a man who hasn't evolved beyond contrived social scripts of what men and women are "supposed to do." I refuse to blindly follow societal conventions that say that women have to get married and procreate. There's just too much data showing that these choices don't make us happy. In fact, happiness levels are the same for couples whether they are married or simply in a long-term relationship, and kids are one of the primary causes of depression in adults. Then there are the obvious points -- that adoption is a great choice given planet over-population, and I don't want to be part of a societal institution (marriage) that involves the state unjustly excluding consenting adults. These "radical" choices have acted like Neanderthal repellent over the years. A litmus test of sorts.

Unfortunately, we don't socialize many men to be truly compatible partners for women who reject their second-class status. We raise our little boys to disdain everything that is "feminine," but then act surprised when they grow up to disrespect women/anything feminine. The idea that women aren't quite full human beings is woven into our societal DNA, and it's very difficult for men and women to recognize and rise above this shoddy upbringing. But life is way too short to be in a relationship where your partner doesn't consider you to be as fully human as he considers himself to be.

Also in today's series: Diana Nguyen and Elizabeth Blackney.

 
This post is part of the "Modern Male Brains & the Young, Powerful Women Who Love Them" series compiled by Dr. Louann Brizendine, neuroscientist and author of the recent book, The Male Brain. The seri...
This post is part of the "Modern Male Brains & the Young, Powerful Women Who Love Them" series compiled by Dr. Louann Brizendine, neuroscientist and author of the recent book, The Male Brain. The seri...
 
 
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10:10 AM on 06/10/2010
I have no problem with relationships with women who are physically stronger than I am, or who have higher education levels or earn more money or who are taller than I am. The taller-than-me thing is a significant indicator of her character and security with a man who is less than her societal equal.
Knowing she is secure enough in her own right in this way makes me love and respect her that much more.

Hey, it's nice to have someone pull, if not their fair share, an even bigger share of the load.


There is always something either one of us doesn't like to do that the other seems just fine with doing.
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Alahna Robinson
11:10 AM on 06/09/2010
Wow, such a nice idea, but the author is so arrogant! I also "refuse to blindly follow societal conventions that say that women have to get married and procreate" - but I am not blindly following them. I am choosing to be in a committed relationship and actively deciding to have children. Not out of blindness, but of choice. What about us? I'm not in a conventional relationship by any means - my partner is 20 years older than I am - and some of our roles are very traditional, and some of our roles are not! He is not an object in my eyes, and I am fully human in his. With this means I don't have to judge other couples or other people who haven't found themselves. I also don't assume that anyone in a traditional marriage or relationship is blindly following societal norms. Societal norms are there for a good reason: many people find fulfillment, happiness, or at least contentment in them. So get off your high-horse lady, there are much more effective ways of talking about the joy in your relationship than insulting other relationships.
03:41 PM on 06/10/2010
But you're actually proving her point. You CHOSE it. A lot of women feel forced into it, not excited about the possibility.
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onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
09:11 PM on 06/08/2010
"Prior to this relationship, I had only ever dated older, "accomplished" men, but I found the love of my life in a ... much younger man."

I question most women when they tell me that they date only older men. But the next question I have is for women who go searching for only younger men. What is that about?

Personally, I like that my husband and I are contemporaries. We're not exactly the same age but we're close enough that we have quite a bit in common. We share the same cultural touchstones from childhood and adolescence even though we grew up 1400 miles from one another. It gives us a sense of being on the same footing.

We're also intellectual equals, even though we do not have the same amount of schooling. He is a public school teacher and is incredibly well-read. I am an academic and I'm narrowly well-read. My Ph.D. was a focus for me and he supported that. He is an incredible teacher but has always been supportive of my career as the higher salary earner and all that entails.

We entered this relationship as partners. Part of that was acknowledging that each came with a past, a present, and a future. That meant we both had names. On our first date he said, "If I ever marry, I can't imagine asking my wife to change her name". He got a second date.

Relationships are best when they are about equality.
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onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
08:52 PM on 06/08/2010
I get so tired of defining work by gender stereotypes. My husband happens to be very good at organizing our laundry. I hate it. Thus, he is in charge of the laundry. He also cleans the bathroom (though once in a while I'll do the sink, if I see that it needs it, to help out). He usually does the dishes but I cook. I love cooking and am pretty good at it. He's pretty accomplished on the grill.

I am very good with home improvement projects and woodworking. If it can be nailed, screwed, or glued, I am the woman with the tools. I have just about every power tool known to womankind. If I don't have it, they don't make it. My sweet husband would rather clean the house from top to bottom than change out the fan in the bathroom or lay tile. I, on the other hand, am in my element.

These are not gendered skills. I learned some of my skills from my mom but most on my own. My husband just likes to have everything neat and clean and learned how to adapt to be that way. I have AD/HD; there's no way I'm going to ever be good at organizing laundry. My husband's skills are better suited.

Bottom line: go with your strengths and quit assigning gender roles. All sorts of people do all sorts of work in this world. Dads are good nurturers and moms can be CEOs. Let it go!
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thereisonlyoneparty
more amazing than you
12:23 AM on 06/09/2010
The problem is that our culture (assuming that you are "western" with the "our") only really allows for three real gender roles: "man", "woman", "gay"/"queer" (which is often just one of the two previous gender roles adopted by the non-traditional sex.)

We have opened up a bit, but still tried to maintain the "traditional" gender roles in society. So "women" are still caretakers and "men" are still bread winners and the roles of our grandparents should still fit today.

They do not, but some people still want them to fit.

the only good thing is that it appears that gender categories do not matter as much to most people in general, though some specific roles are highly relied upon for grouping ("gay"/"queer" is used very often as an attempt to ease associations).
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onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
02:38 PM on 06/09/2010
I'm glad you brought up the concept of westernization. I would almost use Americanization rather than western because we've really focused so much on this cowboy-like exterior for our men that it's gotten way out of hand.

Why on earth should any man conform to any of this? My dad didn't! My husband doesn't! I am certainly no Suzy homemaker and don't intend to ever be.

But I must admit that I feel the pressure sometimes. I love my MIL dearly but she's always been a stay-at-home mom. Once she came down to our home and she showed me how to get the calcium deposits clean from around my sink. I was at first mortified that we had calcium deposits and then finally I realized that she wasn't doing it to offend at all. This was her world and it was simply how she could use her knowledge to help mine! So -- I went and got her son (the guy who cleans the sinks) and thanked her for showing me and asked her to show him too. She laughed and showed him. Now he knows how to get that stuff off the sink.

Does this make me a bad wife or him a girlie man?

Why do most people get divorced? Inability to let go of frustrations that build up. Years of pent up anger. Women who say husbands never helped.

Partnerships are built upon equality. Get over the cowboy and do your fair share.

Happily Married
12:29 AM on 06/09/2010
I agree with you wholeheartedly!

My fiance and I don't fit the classical gender roles... he loves to shop, I'm not a fan. He takes twice as long to get ready as I do. He owns more clothes than I do (though that may be job related... he works in suits and I work in scrubs). While he can do handy work, he would much rather do something else while I do it since I enjoy it. I make more money than he. We share the cooking/cleaning duties equally because we both enjoy cooking and hate cleaning it up.

I do have some traditional 'girly' qualities like my love for ballet and musical theater and he has some traditional 'manly' qualities such as loving cars (though I love them too). People are often remarking that we don't fit gender norms but what does it really matter? We are happy, we enjoy who we are and who the other is. If it works for us, who cares if it is the norm.

Something I think people don't realize is that gender roles are societal, not actually set by your gender.
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onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
02:26 PM on 06/09/2010
Exactly!

I happen to have a guy who is very "masculine" in many ways. He was a swimmer back in college and is still in really good shape, works out every day, etc. At the same time, he's incredibly nurturing and supportive and in some ways very fragile (at least that's the way I see him). I'm not sure that anyone else sees that fragility. Men hide that pretty well because they are socialized to not show those emotions. So, my husband is often perceived as quiet by certain types of people. He's not at all quiet when one gets to know him. He seem vulnerable to me because he takes words and actions seriously. He doesn't use words to hurt people. He's careful with his communication. He's never said anything callously to me. So, I have to consciously shut my mouth and simply "be" with him. If I don't, I miss a great deal. I talk too much.

I'm the one who had the emotional/physical battlefield of an early life. I have the scars to prove it too (abuse, illness, etc). But I have survived and thrived; I just have that kind of optimistic personality.

I still see my husband as this precious flower that I want to protect and nourish. He is my partner, my best friend, my love, and my equal but I still want to protect him. How's that for reversal of gender roles?

But I'll bet you anything he'd feel the same way...
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mitchpeter
06:27 PM on 06/08/2010
Try being a stay at home dad in a same sex relationship, then you'll find out how hard "normal" pushes in and tries to recreate the male-female dynamic.
www.gaynycdad.com
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ExJxS
No longer responding to professional liars.
05:59 PM on 06/08/2010
Women are historically a terrible source of information about what women want. Ask any boy who spent years of their lives trying to be exactly the "man of my dreams" as described by the girls of theirs. You'll find that the overwhelming majority of them were routinely overlooked in favor of exactly the type of guy they said they didn't want.
And now, as evidenced by this author, there is a generation of men raised to be the “gay best friend” who cannot attract the attention of anyone their own age. Which works out really well for older women who weren’t able to hold down a relationship in favor of their careers (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Because now these young men with overly feminine qualities and please-mommy-first attitudes are the perfect companions for middle-aged women who’ve grown to dislike men, but can’t commit to lesbianism.
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Mister Biggles
05:29 PM on 06/08/2010
Let's do it.

I can't wait for the day when I can hang out at home...do a little laundry...watch a little Oprah (well, not Oprah, that's mindless drivel, but NHL Powerplay with Scott Laughlin is on at 4)...make a little dinner...and call it a day.

Of course, when you get home from work, it's your turn to do "your share."
11:08 AM on 06/09/2010
Amen.....I took care of my kids regularly while they were growing up and never understood how anyone could complain about it being hard work. I quite enjoyed it and never suffered the stress I experience at work.
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Mister Biggles
03:09 PM on 06/09/2010
I always hear about these grand conspiracies by the PATRIACHY.

Well...the biggest scam going by the "matriarchy" is to emasculate men who care for kids, etc and then talk about how it's such a demanding life.

You are 100% right. It's the easiest AND most rewarding job in the world.

Men. Open your eyes.

Let them have the boardroom...we can have the couch for ourselves.
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HerrMonk
Fighter, Trainer, Nat.Sec.Consultant, Libertine
11:50 AM on 06/08/2010
This post seems very dated... or at least written by someone a generation or two away from a more typical "dating age" because my generation of 15-20something year old guys are generally pretty estrogenic, just like mama made them.

Muscle is out, strength is out, aggression is out, testosterone on our generation is through the floor. Feelings are in, sensitivity is in, that 11 y.o. girl physique rocking the skinny jeans doesn't seem to be going anywhere fast.

You won. Yay!

You created a generation of emasculated, wimpy, boys, who have less male "gender identity" than most lesbians I know.
12:34 PM on 06/08/2010
This may be a regional thing. The boys in my kids classes (9th and 12th grade) seem a lot like what I remember in the late 70's. Caution to anyone living in a liberal enclave.
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HerrMonk
Fighter, Trainer, Nat.Sec.Consultant, Libertine
01:26 PM on 06/08/2010
Where are you at?

I live in a pretty rural area, and this phenomena is less than it is when I go to a bigger city, or the one of the coasts.

I'm sure theirs regionalism to it, to a degree, and that it's lesser out west (minus California) and in the South, where things are more rural.

But I'm also talking about the media: how do guys look on TV and in the movies? How do they act?

My example will be the guys in the Twilight series of movies (and apparently books): the sparkly effeminate vampires. What every girl wants.
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marianproletarian
04:41 PM on 06/08/2010
Really?? Then we shall have peace at last.
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DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
10:48 AM on 06/08/2010
Gender roles are often take up unconsciously. I do things "because I'm the man" and she does things "because she's the woman". It take effort and practice to change that. If she wants to change the oil in the car or mow the lawn, cool. If I want to take care of the baby, cool. But often we have to claim that role or it falls to the gender and not the person.
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wollstonecraft
Self-described liberal, and proud of it.
02:20 PM on 06/08/2010
That sounds terrific, DevonTexas. I don't dwell on gender roles as much as I dwell on mutual respect, love, and friendship, and it sounds like that's what you described. I'm a 58YO woman, so I'm not in the majority age group here. But I came from a scarily right-wing, fundamentalist kind of childhood and adolescence, where husbands and male relatives used coercion and violence if the had to, to impose their will on the family's women. That's one way of acting out on a gender role that has to go.
10:16 AM on 06/08/2010
I'm a man, and I'm looking for a wealthy woman to take care of me.

So far my "gender norm" experiment has been unsuccessful...
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Hadriel
State Employee, Michigan
10:07 AM on 06/08/2010
I am a man and I was raised almost entirely by my Single Mother. Because of this fact I was raised with a very strong respect for women and their desires for their life. My mother always taught me that if I were to meet a girl and establish a committed relationship to her that I should always support her in every way that I am able to. If she wants to work instead of stay home, so be it, if she doesn't want to get married or have kids, no big deal. I was even raised to embrace the more feminine side of myself and I feel that it has helped me to understand and relate to women in a much better way than the average man does. The woman I'm currently dating, and have been for 7 years now, has always said that she believes that the reason I am able to relate to women more than I am able to relate to men is because of my upbringing. I'll be the first to admit that I am not your typical guy. I hate sports, I don't care about cars, I loathe beer, and I enjoy going shopping, and I don't like to sexually objectify women. Women generally go for the "bad boy" and then wonder why they can never find the "nice guy" because when the nice guy does show up he is ignored because he's not your everyday "typical" man. I like being atypical, it rocks!!
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Social Construct
Go left, young man.
09:41 AM on 06/08/2010
For a PhD doing the writing, this article seemed very "high school" to me. I agree with many of the other commenters' posts regarding the author's possible innuendo that one or the other sex must possess a dominant gender role.
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ECBA88
05:56 PM on 06/08/2010
agreed.
09:31 AM on 06/08/2010
Gender roles are a huge issue in today's society: what is masculine, what is feminine and how if you are male or female these lines should not be crossed. The author makes a good point though: if we raise our boys to detest and buck against anything feminine, how can we ever expect them to respect women and consider them equal? I believe, as a Gen-Y student that this is something that can be changed, but first we must realize that there actually is a problem. I feel that gender roles are so ingrained in us we don't really feel the call to try and rock the boat, but I believe it's about time we jump ship. Gen-Y centered blog The Next Great Generation (http://www.thenextgreatgeneration.com/) allows Millenials to talk about these issues and bring them into the consciousness of both our peers and our predecessors. It's about time we all, men and women alike, start acting in ways we feel are correct, despite gender norms or heteronormatives.
03:24 AM on 06/08/2010
katrina vanden heuvel made me respect women just as much as men
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02:17 AM on 06/08/2010
Defying gender norms or merely reversing them?

1) Woman with older man becomes man with older woman.

2) Woman as inferior being becomes man as inferior being.

3) Woman taking man's name (Patriarchy) becomes man taking woman's name (Matriarchy.)

Oppression, if that's what all of this represents, is oppression any way you cut it.

I wonder if down the road several years your current life-partner isn't going to be telling some younger woman that in his youth he had "only ever dated older, "accomplished" women..."
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02:23 AM on 06/08/2010
Ouch!
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Flip75
What's wrong with my micro-bio?
07:40 AM on 06/08/2010
Some of your reversals aren't necessarily automatic, though. #1, sure - someone's got to be older in a relationship, so that's a no-brainer.
#2 doesn't always hold true - why does one partner have to be an "inferior being"? Could not the two in the relationship hold equal footing?
Same for #3 - why does any partner have to take the name of the other? Let them both keep their own names, since they are two discrete individuals.