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Caryn James

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The Jackie Kennedy Interviews: Snark Becomes Her

Posted: 09/14/11 10:27 AM ET

Here is the great lesson of the newly unsealed Jacqueline Kennedy oral history tapes: Jackie said some snarky things. And her biting, often witty remarks have actually burnished and freshened up her image. Doesn't it make her seem more real, likable, shrewd and contemporary to have called Indira Gandhi "a prune"?

If you watched Diane Sawyer's two-hour special last night, "Jacqueline Kennedy: In Her Own Words," you'd already heard the most explosive, cutting bits from that oral history: that Jackie had called Lyndon Johnson out on his "enormous ego" and said Martin Luther King was a "terrible" man (based partly on rumors he'd arranged sex parties in Washington). For days ABC had been leaking out carefully chiseled, fascinating clips from Jackie's eight-and-a-half hours of audio interviews with Arthur Schlesinger, which had been sealed in the Kennedy Library since they were made, four months after JFK's assassination.

The special's deja vu feel was ABC's own fault. This other liability was not: the television camera was Jackie Kennedy's unlikely friend. Campaigning for her husband in several languages, or in her historic Tour of the White House (carried by all three TV networks that existed at the time), her glowing smile was ideal for television's close-up illusion of intimacy, and her awkwardness came across as natural. How could a TV program based on audio tapes compete with that?

It couldn't, despite the oddity of hearing her always-soft voice and old-time upper-crust pronunciation ("all" becomes "awl"). The TV program was a forced hybrid of audio and still photos, with video filling in the gaps as Sawyer's commentary created a mini-history lesson. It couldn't approach the compete interviews -- published today as a book with audio CD, it's already at the top of the Amazon chart -- or be as instantly gratifying as those dishy little sound bites from World News or Good Morning America.

What the special did display was myth-making on top of myth-making -- Jackie polishing her husband's legacy, while ABC spiffs up Jackie's image -- with shards of startling truth gleaming through.

Here's a snippet from World News Tonight in which Jackie talks about begging to stay in Washington with her husband during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and about LBJ:

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Speaking for the historical record, Jackie was perfectly aware that history is about personality and colorful details as well as dry facts -- even if those details are so cutting you'd want them sealed for 50 years. But her candor only goes so far. She touchingly recalls her husband weeping about the lost lives in the Bay of Pigs, but never criticizes his or the military's handling of the invasion. Remember, this is the woman who invoked the myth of Camelot and made it stick.

Some of the most eye-opening moments zoom by (at least in the televised version). Talking about religion, Jackie says that JFK kneeled by his bed to pray every night but just for a few seconds, like some superstitious gesture. Referring to his death, she says, "I think God's unjust now"; it's a heart-wrenching bombshell that lands with the lightest of touches, in a matter-of-fact tone.

It seems positively cruel of Schlesinger to pounce when three-year-old John wanders into the room. "John, what happened to your father?" he asks. The reassuring answer -- "He's gone to heaven," rather than a shrieking howl -- doesn't make the question less callous.

And the program offers a sense of how hard Jackie struggled to become the good little political wife, a role that didn't come naturally to a shy intellectual. "Sometimes at the end of the day you just felt one jump away from tears, but you wanted to be so cheerful for Jack when he came home," she said of her relentless First Lady duties. Determined to raise money for the White House renovation, she drily says, "You'd have 99 cups of tea with some old lady and she'd give you $50." (That's another of her verbal tics: referring to herself in the second person.)

Until the program was nearly over, its felt as if ABC had made some devil's deal for access, never asking the tough questions. Then Sawyer, sitting across the couch from Caroline Kennedy (sparingly interviewed on camera) mentions the well-known stories of all those other women Jackie had to deal with in her complicated marriage. Caroline looks momentarily stunned, then quickly recovers to say that was between her parents. "I wouldn't be her daughter," she goes on, if she addressed all that. OK, necessary question, graceful escape. And overall, no myths shattered here.

For more Jackie Kennedy videos, please visit jamesonscreens.

Crossposted from IndieWIRE.

 

Follow Caryn James on Twitter: www.twitter.com/carynjames

Here is the great lesson of the newly unsealed Jacqueline Kennedy oral history tapes: Jackie said some snarky things. And her biting, often witty remarks have actually burnished and freshened up her i...
Here is the great lesson of the newly unsealed Jacqueline Kennedy oral history tapes: Jackie said some snarky things. And her biting, often witty remarks have actually burnished and freshened up her i...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
anastasiabeaverhousen
Time wounds all heels
08:49 PM on 09/15/2011
The whole thing is interesting. She must have, at some point, wanted the comments to be made public. Otherwise, why tape them?

I think the whole thing adds a layer of understanding to an era that was cut short WAY to quickly.
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ignacio sanabria
Mirror synapses at work
04:44 PM on 09/15/2011
Jacqueline Kennedy was a woman who had grace but endured a lot of pain. She survived gracefully!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Catherine in Tulsa
Not mother?
11:22 AM on 09/15/2011
I guess hearing that she and the children want to die with JFK didnt' creep her out? It was so obvious it was all what she thought people wanted to hear and what she wanted their legacy to be, regardless of the truth.
orange county man
guy from the OC
11:08 AM on 09/16/2011
The word at the White House during the Missile Crisis was that surviving a nuclear war would be worse than dying during it. Think Hiroshima times ten or twenty. She could have been thinking about that.
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Catherine in Tulsa
Not mother?
11:53 AM on 09/16/2011
Her children were still very small - wasn't Jr 3 when his father died? So the idea that she's talked to them about dying and where they want to die is still creepy.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cafebeege
10:56 PM on 09/16/2011
I'm sure you're right orange county......
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lawgrrl
Repubs need a "time-out" until they can behave.
10:50 AM on 09/15/2011
Caroline is a class act all the way. Her parents, for all their faults, would be proud.
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Bados
I love Sarah Palin. No wait...I love parasailing.
01:33 PM on 09/16/2011
Not quite all the way. I'm gonna go ahead an figure that thinking MLK was a terrible man is a big character flaw. Womanizing runs rampant in her family, did it make any Kennedy's contribution to society any less grand?
02:28 PM on 09/16/2011
Exactly!!! That bothers me alot. Where is the tape where Jackie condemns her own husband and brother in law for being awful men???
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imsixftsix
09:21 AM on 09/15/2011
As a child, I remember watching Jackie Kennedy and King Sihanouk ride elephants at Angkor Wat in Cambodia in a movie newsreel....I went to Cambodia a 9 yrs. ago because that image stuck in my mind...As for her "biting" comments...As a homosexual, I simply adore biting comments..
08:44 AM on 09/15/2011
The woman had opinions, so do we. Let's let her rest in peace shall we?
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Steamboater
Forget hope. Agitate.
03:27 AM on 09/15/2011
Well, Jackie did have style and was smart enough to keep her mouth shut publicly when JFK was president. That little girl breathy voice though when it got to it could really be like a poison pen, deftly used and exquisite in it's use.
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Honora
07:18 AM on 09/15/2011
Can't help but wish she had simply kept her mouth shut period. Gossip gossip gossip..It's damaging to our very being......
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Steamboater
Forget hope. Agitate.
03:22 AM on 09/15/2011
Indira Gandhi was much more then a prune or prude; at the tail end of her life she became dictator of India and very dangerous politician. As for MLK, Jackie called him a "phoney" and if he did have affairs, he was. You can't get away from that. Lyndon Johnson was another matter though. Jackie dreaded him ever becoming president but he was no worse with Vietnam than JFK was and domestically, he was a great president who bullied, kissed-up to and charmed his political enemies, something we could have used a mix of since the last election in this white house. The fact is, Jackie Kennedy was a bit of snob.
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KDMac
It's called sarcasm, Genius.
09:13 AM on 09/15/2011
I don't think MLK's personal indescretions should overshadow his contribution to our country. Same with JFK, Clinton and other political leaders who can't seem to keep it in their pants.
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lawgrrl
Repubs need a "time-out" until they can behave.
10:53 AM on 09/15/2011
True. Interesting though, the visceral contempt for MLK's alleged indiscretions, while ignoring her husband's. I think she lashed out at these powerful, but to one degree or another, corrupted men, because she could not lash out at her own husband for similar behavior, for many complicated reasons. They were safe ways to direct and air her own feelings on their behaviors.
02:32 PM on 09/16/2011
So, she thought her husband to be a phoney?? Turn about is fair play...
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HawaiianLady
My name means Gift of God.
02:32 AM on 09/15/2011
Quite an experience listening to her own words. I was surprised that she was as collected as she was for someone who had been a widow for such a short time. Interesting, was how I found it. Not titillating, just absorbing to hear.
01:01 AM on 09/15/2011
I just finished reading "Jackie and Bobby: A Love Story" by C. David Heymann. It tells you a lot about Jackie. She was not very smart, but she certainly was very shrewd.
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HawaiianLady
My name means Gift of God.
02:33 AM on 09/15/2011
I've read a couple of things by Heymann and haven't been a bit impressed. I really don't like his take on these people, since he didn't really know them.
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KDMac
It's called sarcasm, Genius.
09:13 AM on 09/15/2011
Not very smart?
12:18 AM on 09/15/2011
There was no such thing as snark back then.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
10:53 PM on 09/14/2011
Mrs. Kennedy-Onassis seems to have been a very cunning, calculating lady. She achieved the top by marrying a man who would become president of the US. Of course she ā€œoverlookedā€ her husband’s infidelity -- that was the price for her position and financial comfort. Would anyone be surprised if in her last will she requested that the transcripts of the ā€œconversationsā€ be turned into a book? Who benefits from its sales? She was also aware that by selling her junk via Sotheby’s, the items would fetch a mint, which they did. One of the most transparent examples of her smart manipulation was her marriage to Aristotle Onassis that included a prenup stipulating the time and place for intimacy- clearly there was no love involved, for the man that is, for his money? Well, that is another matter – and myth continues for a bit longer.
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HawaiianLady
My name means Gift of God.
02:35 AM on 09/15/2011
Talking about myths ... have you got ANY proof of what you just said?
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KDMac
It's called sarcasm, Genius.
09:14 AM on 09/15/2011
Would you have preferred she had a garage sale?
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08:34 PM on 09/14/2011
From what I read elsewhere Caroline believes that her mother's opinion was tainted and poisoned by Hoover's biased characterizations.
12:19 AM on 09/15/2011
Here opinions were only one moment in time-- what she thought in one set of interviews, maybe not what she thought over the course of her lifetime.
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lawgrrl
Repubs need a "time-out" until they can behave.
10:55 AM on 09/15/2011
there you go, talking like a mature, reasoned, adult again . . . ;)
03:52 PM on 09/15/2011
very insightful of you - thanks for reminding us
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efmo
Oh no, my micro-bio is empty!
12:45 PM on 09/15/2011
Diane Sawyer said as much in the program. I didn't watch all of it, but I wasn't impressed with Diane Sawyer's somewhat superficial grasp of history.
08:01 PM on 09/14/2011
shes not a very kind woman is she. she only thought God was unfair when her husband died, not when all the other things going on the world where happening. All the deaths, racial unjust and so on.
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HawaiianLady
My name means Gift of God.
02:41 AM on 09/15/2011
She wasn't raised to be very religious; her theological training was probably minimal. As was Jack's. His father arranged for his boys not to go to Catholic colleges. His daughters were allowed to, but not the boys.

Kindness is learned through adversity. I would expect that like most of us she grew with the times.
06:24 PM on 09/14/2011
Didn't see the program but am not really surprised that she had some acerbic opinions about other prominent people. I remember reading her take on Michael Jackson when she was editing his book; Jackson seemed to hero-worship her but she wasn't much impressed by him, apparently. I think most of us say things to friends and confidants that we really wouldn't want to repeat to the general public. And our opinions tend to be fluid over time.

I wish Pat Nixon had made such tapes--I would probably find them fascinating; since her public persona seemed so withdrawn and closed-off. I find these sorts of literary efforts far more interesting than the imagined adventures of Presidential dogs and cats.
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HawaiianLady
My name means Gift of God.
02:44 AM on 09/15/2011
Pat Nixon learned early on to keep her mouth shut about EVERYTHING political. There's a great story I read about her way back before she was First Lady. She was at a party with Nancy Kefauver, Estes Kefauver's wife, and they were chatting. Nancy said something politically provocative, and Pat quickly said, "Do you have enough closet space in your new place?" Nancy said, "No, but that's a nice safe subject."