Hillary Clinton Supporters -- The Global Warming Deniers of Democratic Politics?

Hillary Clinton supporters seem to have become the equivalent of global warming deniers in Democratic politics. If facts don't suit your argument, insist on the opposite. And even more importantly, insist that your non-facts get at least 50% of the coverage.

The Clinton team is now trying to make the specious argument that she is winning in the popular vote. The first problem with that argument is that it's not true. Obama still leads by over 500,000 votes. The second problem is that they try to include states like Michigan and Florida where all sides agreed not to campaign or have their delegates counted. Hillary Clinton's flip-flop on these states is even more absurd given that Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan.

But the more fundamental problem with this popular vote argument is that it is the wrong metric. Nobody ever said they were running a campaign for more popular votes. If those were the ground rules, no one would have spent any time in Iowa or New Hampshire. Obama and the others would have been campaigning in California for six months to a year instead of those first primary and caucus states.

This is like saying we're counting only touchdowns in the middle of a basketball game. Well if I knew that was the game we were playing I would have put on a helmet and tackled you a long time ago. Why did I bother scoring all these baskets?

Look, this is absurd. Why is anyone humoring these arguments? Why do we have to cover Hillary Clinton's side as if it has as much validity as Obama's? This isn't about who is the better candidate; this is about facts and reality. She can claim to be better on healthcare, but she can't claim to have a lead in this race. One is subjective, the other is objective.

None of her arguments make any sense: She wins the big states - congratulations, go run for president in a country where there are only big states. The popular vote is now the relevant metric in this election - then you're disenfranchising all of the caucus states and changing the rules in the middle of the game. Obama is not electable - really, then why is he kicking your ass in this election?

I love the audacity of someone who is losing to another candidate claiming that candidate is not electable. So, what does that make you?

You might love Hillary Clinton, you might think she would make a great president and you might even have concerns about her opponent. You have a right to think all these things, but you don't have a right to your own math. Two plus two still equals four and Hillary's team shouldn't get equal time for claiming it equals five for her but only three for Barack.

We have got to stop treating these math deniers as if they have any legitimacy or credibility. They are spinning for their side and the tales they are spinning are comically wrong. And as always, the media is falling prey to the idea that every side of an argument must be presented equally rather than what the facts merit.

Young Turks on You Tube

Comments

[shrugged]

The democratic primary vote numbers do not matter. Most important is to win the Presidency. The real objective is who can beat McCain with swing voters in swing states. Hillary has raised some very valid points that must be addressed. Who can win swing voters in swing states? Should Democrats feel good they listened to the college students and non general election voters to go forward selecting Humphrey, McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry? The objective is to win.

[Phaedrus21]

Remember...like a million years ago...at the end of that debate when she said she was honored to be sharing the stage with Obama and she knew that whatever happened America would be all right?

That was awesome.

[xcrunner77]

Cenk--
Any guesses as to what the Hillary people will do when Obama becomes the official nominee some time during the first week of June (if not sooner)? Will Carville still go on TV yammering about how "it's not right?" Will Bill still be out there wagging his finger? What will all these Hillary devotees do? I really fear for their mental health. I'm guessing lots of checking into rehab. Or Hillary will take someone hostage.

Fortunately, we Obama supporters know a thing or two about math. As annoyed as we might get, we know the math is on our side, that Hillary will be no closer to Obama in pledged delegates when this is all over than she is now, and that superdelegates will not be stupid enough to take the first place trophy out of the hands of the guy who crossed the finish line first and put it in the hands of the person who crossed second. We've done a lot of work, our guy has won by any measure you like, including THE ONE THAT ACTUALLY COUNTS, and it's time for us to claim our prize and move on to the next phase: beating John McCain.

It's time for someone to call security and escort the Clintons off the premises. Democrats everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief when that happens.

[wolfi101]

She will either talk about running Independent or using the lawyers to push her case. She will claim, that she was robbed on the nomination by not having the Florida and Michigan votes count.

If she goes gracefully from the stange and supports Obama, as she said, she would do ( for whatever nominee the Dems decide upon ) ............ I'll be shocked.

Relieved, but shocked.

[ I think, it's already time for her to exit-stage-right. ]

----- Good article, btw.

[NeoAmerican]

Good analogy. Just like the climate change deniers or the creationists, one half of the Democratic Party has closed their minds to reason and it appears no one can reach them. They're being incited by Bill and Hillary the same way the no-minds are incited by Limbaugh and O'Reily with the exact same results. We now have Democratic ditto heads.

I guess the only thing which might wake them up is the 8 years of McCain which they have enabled; that is if he can hang in that long without life support. Of course by that time, the Chinese may have called the note due and payable on our future. If the country ends up on a diet of rice and varmint from the Clinton catastrophe of 2008, they brought it on themselves. Unfortunately, they're bringing it on the rest of us also.

[PioneerKing]

Chuck Todd said "Hillary got an automatic 3% by having the PA political machine support her," politicians in PA used financial resources to support Hillary so there was more money spent on behalf of Hillary than her own campaign money.
Clinton"s supporters have failed to acknowledge that people who are polled after every election are NOT first time voters, voters who changed their party affiliation or voters who where previously inactive and, it is not a given that those voters will support Hillary.
People who say they will not vote for Obama but, will vote for McCain if Hillary is not the nominee were NEVER going to vote for Obama!
If someone wants America out of Iraq and knows that the economy is hurting as a result of war expenditures why would they vote for someone who wants to stay the course?
No one has said to those people "your vote for McCain will mean more dead troops and more of your money going to Iraq while the economy suffers," "is this what you are willing to sacrifice by refusing to vote for Obama?"
Why aren"t you asking "why can"t Hillary close the deal and get the voters that Obama is attracting?"
If Obama was not bringing new voters to the party the dems would have Hillary not being able to garner more than 45% if she draws that many votes, 3% others, and McCain will get 52% because the right wing base will galvanize against anything Clinton.

[inspectormerlot]

Why also are you not pointing out that her popular vote claims are outrageous given that she's excluding the caucus results!
What is simultaneously so disappointing is that no-one is talking about the incredible impact Limbaugh's Operation Chaos has had on the popular vote.

[wolfi101]

I think, everyone ( except for the Hillary supporters ) are aware, that the Republicans are trying to fudge the situation by pushing people to vote for Hillary. This isn't a typical 'conspiracy theory lurking in the shadows' scenario.

Rush has been preaching this for months. Not to worry, most of us know the truth.

[ann1]

Shame on Bill Clinton, look what he's done to Hillary. He cheated on her and humiliated her before the world. He made her feel less than, not good enough, not pretty enough. He tore down every ounce of self-esteem she had. He's doing it to her all over again leaving her in the dark when everyone else knows the truth...............it's over. Shame on you Mr Clinton!

[liberalfan]

It's sad to watch this meltdown IMO. The fact is the Obama and Clinton campaign planned for this election with these rules in mind. There are clear quotes highlighting how these campaign's planned for these rules. But when she's losing: HRC gets to keep moving the goal posts and the media (in love with this race and shocked that a black man can come this far) goes along.

It's just killing Obama's chances in November at this point.

He still has a great field advantage, the issuses are on his side, and the grassroots organizing is here.

But every day HRC is in the race is another day McCain gets stronger.

She's ruining this party. By supporting her you are supporting the Republican platform at this point.

[justobserve]

You hit the nail on its head! The loser keeps finding ways to say the winner is unelectable instead of herself! With the records of the Clintons' tenacy during their 8 years in the WH of "we never quit! we will lie, spin, cover up, intimidate" until the blue dress proved, uh, my DNA and still, "we'll not quit! we are not quitters!" Yes, we heard that and we knew the Clintons won't quit. They just lie, cheat, spin, cover-up and intimidate to win.
Even William Louis-Dreyfus, the NY billionaire financier, said he had been impressed by Clinton's performance in the Senate and distressed by eight years of the Bush administration when he donated the maximum to her campaign last August. Then, he said, he began watching more closely. "However much one might have supported the Clintons, or one might support the usual suspects in the Democratic Party, I began to believe Obama represents a new approach. He gives off such a sense of relevance that he's sort of irresistible," Louis-Dreyfus said.
He also expressed, as did other big givers who crossed to Obama, exasperation about the tone of the Clinton campaign and frustration with the candidate herself.
"At the end of the day, all she had to do was open her mouth for me NOT TO BELIEVE HER," Louis-Dreyfus said.

[Manx]

The more desperate the Clinton campaign, the more ridiculous their claims. What next? They'll be telling us that the nomination should be decided by blue-haired ladies.

[sociocanuck]

The problem with insisting that Clinton supporters are math deniers is that it may not be quite true: sure, the ARITHMETIC doesn't lie - but surely there's a MATH out there that will support an alternate definition. Perhaps some wild non-Euclidean geometry that allows her campaign to "triangulate" in a way that completely blows past the (Euclidean) notion that the angles in any triangle must add up to a semicircle.

[TommyMcCarthy]

Mr. Unger finds it "absurd" for Sen. Clinton to cout the votes of the two and a half million or so voters in Michigan and Florida.

I wonder if he detects and "absurtity" in the Obamites inclusion of the big, election-deciding "swing" states of "Americans abroad", the virgin islands, Alaska, and Hawaii, in his "electability argument?

Or how about those certain-to-go-Republican states of Kansas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, S. Carolina, Texas,etc.? ("But we won 11 in a row!!) Any "absurdity" there?

Of course "absurd" is being produced in great quantity by my beloved Democrats this cycle. I guess it started early when the insufferable Mr. Dean and his absurd rules/bylaws committee decided to monkey with the primary schedule in the name of...........what was it agan?

The MOTHER of all things absurd would be to try to go into Nov. having disenfranchised Florida (yet again...by Democrats no less!) Regards.......................................tm

[Mesaywar]

When you misrepresent, misquote, misinterpret or misspeak about every single point you're trying to make, you tend not to be credible.

[TommyMcCarthy]

I didn't "misrepresent, misquote,or misinterpret anything, I merely statedmy opinon.........go piss up a rope

[nsiah7]

So you think by twisting and chaning the rules of the game they all agreed to at the beginning, in the middle of the game is good enough to legetimise a nominee. Let the superdelegate do the wrong turn and see the voters punish them for that in November. No one will care if the nomination is won by the rules set at the beginning of the contest but not in mid of campaign. Grow up my friend

[unity08]

Imagine if the tables were turned, and it was Hillary who was ahead in pledge delegates, popular vote, and most states won. Imagine if it were Obama who was contesting the Florida and Michigan votes. Imagine that it was Hillarys name not on the ballot in Michigan.

Imagine what would be happning right now to Senator Obama. It wouldnt be pretty.

[xcrunner77]

These are the same rules that put Bill and Hillary in the White House twice. I didn't hear Hillary or Bill complaining about the rules back then. In 1992 and 1996 the rules were awesome! Delegates were great!! Now that she is losing the rules are "unfair." Boo hoo.

If you want to make the argument that "only the states that Hillary has won should count" that would be fine if it was the way things were set up in the beginning. Then Obama could have ignored the 30 states he's won and focused on the 15 that Hillary has won. If he had done that, he would have won 13 of those 15. And then Hillary would be screaming that we should be counting all 50.

Just admit it. It's OVER. You LOST!!

[MrLion]

This Michigander is dead-set against counting the results of the January 15 Train Wreck Primary. Doing so would reward the Michigan Democratic Party mandarins for their arrogance and incompetence, represent a cave-in to the Clinton campaign's lies and threats, and send the unmistakable message that you can thumb your nose at the rules if you have a famous last name.

[cla62]

Much like the global warming debate. For every clown that believes it, their is another that doesn't, for every dem that likes the rock star, their is another that likes Billary. Try making some type of comparison using phenomonem that is actually a fact, not one that has no standing whatsoever. Well, other than the loonies that want to give it some. One of these days Gore is finally going to jump onto a cause that is a proven fact, then maybe everyone can finally take the clown seriously.

[realistxxx]

Actually, they remind me more of Bush supporters.

[jrutle]

Clinton's comment that she's winning the popular vote is another proof of how she's willing to dissemble truth to fool the electorate she's trying to influence. Her ethics, as is often the case, is situational. Its not an accident that the vast majority of Americans view her as untrustworthy. Coupled with her comment about obliterating Iran this past week, she's demonstrated why she's not fit to lead our nation.

[jfor]

Hillary Clinton is a liar. There is nothing more to be said. You can disagree and argue the nuance of her lies but in the end she is a liar and if her supporters do not admit it, then they too are liars. I have no problem calling HRC and her cabal of lunatics liars, I can even admit that when it comes to lying and misdirection she and they are some of the best this country has ever seen. Her lies are who she is and if you have been paying attention, you can probably name a half dozen right off the bat.

As Cenk points out curently Hillary and company are lying about the numbers, this really is no surprise since they already have lied about her experience, her past votes, her role as first lady, her Commander in Chiefability, her military skills, her hunting past and many many things so insignificant your child would even admit to them. Yep, Hillary is a liar and she is good at it, in fact Hillary is the best liar of this electoral season.

We already have a liar in the Whitehouse, do we really want to elect another?

[jimi945]

Next on Hillary's agenda, since she has been DUCK HUNTING and drinking beer and getting religious, she is now willing to obliterate Iran. Her statement the other day has not been argued by the press at all. She is talking more and more like McCain today...Remember? Bomb, Bomb, Iran? Now she is a people killer....Wow..That sure shows her toughness.
You people that are voting for Hillary....I want you to remember something.....If she steals this election and goes to November against McCain, if she gets elected, tell me in four years that she cared about what she said to you....Believe me, she could care less. That smile and bobble head nodding is just to get your vote and that's it. If you vote for Hillary, you are in deep doo-doo. Just remember it.