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Cenk Uygur

Cenk Uygur

Posted: August 6, 2009 03:35 AM

Is the US Military a Socialist Institution?


The Republicans need to stop denigrating the troops. They keep saying that the government can't get anything right. How about the biggest government project of all -- the United States Armed Forces? Are the Republicans talking smack about the military -- and hence, the troops? Support the troops! Support government!

Does anyone disagree that the military is almost entirely government run? And if you agree to that obvious fact, when you attack all government run programs, aren't you by definition attacking the United States military?

And if there was any question about how socialist the army is, they removed all doubt when they adopted their last slogan: Army of One. That sounds positively communist. Why don't they just call it the collective? And in the US military everyone pledges to support one another no matter what. No one gets left behind. Everyone gets government provided housing, health care, and even government clothing. The military is the most socialist institution we have.

And while we're privatizing things, I've always wanted to go after the commies in the Fire Department. Always talking about brotherhood, jumping into burning buildings to save others. These pinko commies disgust me. Time to break them up. Besides, I don't want any bums milking the system for any free fire coverage. If you can't pay, then burn freeloader burn.

Private fire insurance would be so much more efficient. They can figure out if you have a pre-existing condition before they waste their time going into a fire. Were you a little hot before the fire started? Bingo, pre-existing condition. The free market will figure out who should burn to death and who shouldn't.

If the free market can decide who lives or dies based on who has health insurance or not, why not apply the same principle to who lives or dies in a fire? The free market is always the best judge. And if it says you should go down in a ball of flames, well, then you had it coming. Do you want the government getting between you and the flames?

Finally, I've always loved the principle of love it or leave it. It applies to the old US of A. And it also applies to the government. If you don't love the government, why don't you get the hell out? Why don't all of the Republicans quit their government jobs at once to show how much they hate the government? (Maybe this is what Sarah Palin was doing.)

You want to talk about an inefficient government run program? How about the United States Congress? It doesn't get any worse than that. So, John McCain, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, why don't you all leave your government jobs -- with your government provided incomes, government provided offices and government provided health care -- and go home? Aren't you tired of being faceless, nameless bureaucrats? Isn't it time to put up or shut up about your distaste for government?

Love it or leave it, baby!

Young Turks on You Tube

PS - On a serious note, isn't it unbelievable that the media can't understand the simple concept that the government does some things well and others not so well? How can they let Republicans keep making the same dumb point about how the government can't do anything right? This should be a simple matter of logic. No one ever asks the Republican politicians why they think the government can't run this particular program when it runs many other programs perfectly fine (even by Republican admission, since they would never say a bad word about the US military on camera).

Finally, if Republicans are arguing the government can't do anything right, wouldn't they want to shut the whole thing down? Which leads to the obvious question -- are Republicans anarchists?

Follow Cenk Uygur on Twitter: www.twitter.com/TheYoungTurks

 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Guitarsandmore
devoted father, community activist, musician, reti
10:17 AM on 08/07/2009
I have some veteran friends who are very happy with the health care services they have received from the VA.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
03:15 PM on 08/07/2009
I know that THIS veteran was very happy with the services received (except in the dental department..... They never capped a root canal...)
07:06 AM on 08/07/2009
It was difinitely communist,as my friends and neighbors at the selective service office decided I should serve from 1972-19741!!!!!!!!!!
02:23 AM on 08/07/2009
Single best article I've ever read on the Post. Ever.
11:52 PM on 08/06/2009
Let's see--the difference between Gov't run healthcare, and Gov't run Military...and other such services as fire/EMS. Who on this site has a personal relationship with their "military provider"? or their personal "fire protection provider"? Americans enjoy their relationship with their personal physician--and polls show that the majority of Americans do not want to see that change. As for the arguments regarding the military being a socialist organization? obviously posted by individuals with zero military experience. Each Armed Service is a highly structured heirarchy, based on a firmly established chain of command, which begins at the President and extends down to each Soldier, Airman, Sailor, and Marine. The military rewards hard work, perseverence, and devotion to the Nation above anything else...regardless of the individual's race, background, or ideology. Socialism is the last thing that comes to my mind when describing the military.
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MajorKong
If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally
06:05 AM on 08/07/2009
Your argument basically comes down to "military = good" and "socialist = bad" therefore the military isn't socialist.

And I spent 21 years in the military.
09:47 AM on 08/07/2009
"The military rewards hard work, perseverence, and devotion to the Nation above anything else..."

Like many on "The Right," you seem to be con-fusing Socialism with Marxism. They are not the same thing. I spent many years in the US Army and it didn't take long for me to come to the assumption that it was - In fact - a Socialist system.

How-Ever, as far as quality of service goes, the quality of medical care that individual soldiers received seemed - To me - more oft than not to be based on a soldier's rank. This observation was based not only up-on my own experiences but up-on conversations which I'd had with other soldiers of varying ranks.

Whilst I was never much im-pressed with the Army's medical system as a whole, my experiences with the VA medical system have been an entirely different matter. The military medical system may not be evidence to me that the Government can run an efficient health care system. The VA medical system - On the other hand - is.
06:56 PM on 08/06/2009
If you look at the definition of a socialist institution, you have your answer about the Military.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
glockman
05:21 PM on 08/06/2009
"Does anyone disagree that the military is almost entirely government run?"

Yes. The military is not govt. run. The only role govt. has in the military is through oversight. The military acts at the request of the civilian govt., but executes those requests independent from the govt.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ihavenobias
05:51 PM on 08/06/2009
Right, as if such nuance is involved when clowns on the right scream of "socialism", which at least 3/4 of them can't even define on the spot.
05:53 PM on 08/06/2009
The civilian government does not request the military do stuff. The civilian government orders/commands the military to do stuff and the military does it.

The President is obviously Commander-in-Chief.

The Constitution also Congress more than just oversight power over the military. Like it or not, Congress creates the military and Congress makes the rules the military operates under.

"To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;"
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
glockman
06:19 PM on 08/06/2009
All those things you mention, the military takes care of them.
iridium53
Semper Fi
04:57 PM on 08/06/2009
The best healthcare I ever had was Marine Corps supplied Naval Hospital care.

The facilities weren't always the best, but sometimes that was because it is tough to keep facilities going in the places we operated.

Initial healthcare, in the form of a Corpsman, was always there, always looking to prevent unnecessary injuries that would result in degradation of mission. Treatment was rapid.
I had a doctor ex-Navy that had an office in San Diego with other former Navy docs that ran their office like a ship's surgery - all the equipment normally needed in one place. They retired.

Now, my HMO makes me go to a doctor that makes me go to visit a bunch of different subcontracted services - sucks up time as though my time is of no value (only theirs matters in a system run by them) and delays treatment.

I'll take the military healthcare approach anytime.

Semper Fi
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ScreenName05
04:54 PM on 08/06/2009
Leave no man behind! Bouyah!
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Gib
My micro-bio is empty
04:47 PM on 08/06/2009
To be precise, the military is a National Socialist institution, i.e. fas.cist. You lose your human rights when you join, the state is paramount.
07:10 PM on 08/06/2009
It is also provided for in the US Constitution. Your 'rights' are accounted for very openly and clearly in the uniformed code of military justice.

Not very precise, but nice try.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
spinmas
04:28 PM on 08/06/2009
very pointed and correct. This article is the absolute truth, you need to get a pulitzer for this article. Seriously..I agree with every word!! and I agree with steel71, but as inefficient as the military is, congress is loath to take any money away from the complex, they might over throw the government!
04:26 PM on 08/06/2009
There is an irony that when the US's armed forces use US civilian contractors in zones of combat in an attempt to privatize some tasks done by troops, such as guarding convoys & some bases, the civilian contractors get paid fees larger than the cost of using troops. The civialian contractors also fail to do jobs they get. The USA's armed forces need to be re-socialized at once to become more effective.
The private contractors aren't capable of operating in combat zones.
Perhaps universal health care would be done better if it was socialized. Some services aren't adequatly(sp?) provided by private enterprise.
02:05 AM on 08/07/2009
Yeah, and you can add killing our troops to the private sector's list of military screw-ups. (see KBR)
04:26 PM on 08/06/2009
Cenk, you truly are the most entertaining author on Huffpo. Your posts are almost always full of delicious Strawman arguments and Red Herrings. You see, the constitution actually provides for the federal government to organize and fund a military 'for the common defense'. The constitution also says that all powers not granted explicitly to the federal government by the constitution are reserved for the states. So, comparing a whole host of wildly inefficient and unconstitutional FEDERAL government programs (name one that isn't) to the US Military is laughably dishonest and ignorant. By the way, the "What about firemans and polices?!" canard is so played out. Fire and police services are provided LOCALLY. Your argument is so full of logical holes it's amazing.

As a disabled veteran and a West Point grad, I'd say the military way of life and 'socialist' system serves it's purpose as enumerated in the constitution: to fight and win our nation's wars. Trying to use this unique institution as a way of pawning off the latest greatest statist power-grab on the greater American population (civilians) just shows how morally and intellectually bankrupt you are.

Speaking of which, I VOLUNTEERED of my own free will for military service. It wasn't IMPOSED on me like taxation and certain arms of the federal bureaucracy. That alone grinds your argument to dust.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ihavenobias
04:50 PM on 08/06/2009
-How much do the people in Chicago enjoy having the cost to park at a meter quadruple since the parking meters were privatized a few months ago? The spots are no bigger BTW.

-Have you ever received cold food or the wrong order from a (private) restaurant, even after you waited (for 30 minutes, 60 minutes or more?) to be seated?

-Have you ever waited in a long grocery store line with just a few items while people ahead of you with full carts haggled over pennies and coupons? Did they squash the bread under canned goods when you checked out? Did they scan the same item twice?

I am not by any means suggesting that I want public restaurants or grocery stores, etc.. But when it comes to The Commons that we all depend on, yes, I want the government in and the profit-motive out for health insurance, because again the facts show that means lower costs with good service (note that the Business Roundtable Report On Healthcare "represents CEOs of major companies"):

http://www.businessroundtable.org/publication/health_care_value_comparability_study_full_report

And of course the real answer to the above questions, parking costs excluded, is "sometimes".

PS---Honestly, the vast majority of the time my mail gets where it needs to be on time and at a very low cost. And I've had courteous people and short lines at the DMV in addition to the opposite...just like with any private business.
07:01 PM on 08/06/2009
I have received poor service before, as has every other American. However, when I complain about a bad product or crappy service, a manager takes care of me the vast majority of the time. The rest of the time, I just decide not to give said company my business again. We can't expect perfection.

However...

The US Post Office posted a $2.4 billion LOSS in the third quarter alone, with expected losses of $7 billion for FY09. Who do you think pays for that?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
05:13 PM on 08/06/2009
Soooo! If it is on the local level it is not socialist. I get it now. The city you live in is modeled after a socialist priciple "Together we stand, divided we fall," People, being social animals, first flocked together for survival, I guess that is not necessary anymore. The school system is also not socialist because it is a local system. How about the care of the health of the American people? That sounds like a unique situation to me. What are your feelings on contracting out at an outlandish fee the work of the military? I volunteered back when the military actually knew how to feed its soldiers. I also know how to dig a latrine and drive myself around in a half track. I was given a rifle and pulled guard duty to protect my fellow soldiers while they slept. What is your feeling on contracting out that task? What is next? Should we just send mercenaries to protect our freedoms? I sense a bit of deception here. Hmmmm!
06:52 PM on 08/06/2009
No, you don't get it.

The word 'socialist' really has no place in this discussion. I'm not debating the use of this worn-out buzzword. This is about the constitution. Period. If state governments want to enact the most insanely liberal policies (call them socialist if you will), they are allowed to do so. I may not agree with those policies, but in a more liberal part of the country, where that's what suits the majority of the populace, I can't possibly be upset with that. You probably won't hear many 'conservatives' say that, but it's what the founding fathers intended and what the constitution allows.

As far as your references to the military and contracting, that response would take days to write. Suffice to say I don't agree with 'contracting out' the tasks of pulling guard duty, being given a rifle, and the force protection activities and direct engagement roles that should be reserved for our uniformed military service members.
MThomasNC
Retired, Sassy, Senior Citizen
04:21 PM on 08/06/2009
Mr. Uygur, all of your points are on target. Couple days ago on right leaning C-Span's WashJournal one of the guests was a newly elected repub senator from Idaho and his answer to every question and comment was that the government can't run anything, it's incompetent, etc. My first thought was 'why senator are you in government? why am I paying for portions of your health care?'
These conservatives, I don't believe have a clue as to what they are spewing out to the public. They get away with this poppycock nonsense because no one challenges them, and MSM goes wild over these ranting and raving which boost their ratings.
No one is held accountable for these lies anymore. I believe that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Rupert Murdoch's network chain that is okay for networks to 'not tell' the truth. So with this ruling no wonder we hear so many lies, misinformation, and distortions out there masquerading as truth that no one knows what real anymore. Thank-you, conservatives. You have done a bang-up job.
03:46 PM on 08/06/2009
Actaully I think the military is more like a dictatorship, their told when to go to bed, when to wake up, when to eat, what to eat, what to wear, Some like it like that, We used to call them lifers.
04:38 PM on 08/06/2009
In my 20 years, other than boot camp, no one ever told me when to sleep or wake up, what to eat, but yea we have uniforms, so they did tell me what to wear. It is a job, just like your job. You show up for work, you work, and you go home. But after retiring 10 years ago, I miss the hell out of it, so I guess that makes me a socialist, and yes, I love my government funded health care. I am such a lifer.....
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
05:14 PM on 08/06/2009
Semper-Fi.
02:26 AM on 08/07/2009
THEY'RE, not their. "Their" is the third-person plural possessive pronoun. "They're" is a contraction of "they are." If you want people to take you seriously, don't write as though you're third grader. If you can't write, then don't, because you probably don't have anything helpful or useful to say and must resort to insulting the military leadership.
03:42 PM on 08/06/2009
Cenk, darling -- there's a point where ironic becomes less than insightful. The phrase 'preaching to the choir' might also apply here; because the timid tourists who click in just to check you out -- will be lost in the brilliance of your riposte.

The disconnection between the people and the government is nearly complete. Any interaction is played for effect, and covered by media for ad revenue. The deciding factors are the deals made between corporations and their congressional representatives.

It just isn't amusing that after 15 years in the same job, I've been denied unemployment. It isn't riotous that my bank, which received billions in the bailout and recently claimed to be highly profitable, closed the branch that wrote my loan and had me escorted out of the downtown branch for trying to talk to a supervisor about re-writing my mortgate. I find no irony in stimulous funds already disappearing without trace. Next year, my children will attend school one hour less each day, and be in school at least 20 fewer days.

If my son goes in the military, he will likely be forced to attend Xian services in the church built with taxpayer money on the base; he will be encouraged to express hatred of foreign nationals, Americans who are not white or Xian, women and his own president.

Irony doesn't cut it.
07:06 PM on 08/06/2009
Your last paragraph made me laugh at you...hard.

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with respect to the military.
02:18 AM on 08/07/2009
Not funny? Sure it is! And you know what? So are you!
I mean that from the bottom of my heart.