I think we can all agree that the man who shot Dr. George Tiller is a domestic terrorist. I know what Republicans think we should do with accused terrorists -- waterboard them. So, let's get it on.
Initial reports are that the suspect is an anti-abortion activist named Scott Roeder. Good enough. Let's torture the son of a bitch. Remember the people in Guantanamo Bay were just detainees, they were not convicted of anything before we started the "enhanced interrogation" techniques. Most of them didn't even have the verifiable criminal and terroristic history of Roeder who was previously arrested with bomb making material and has called murder of doctors "justifiable homicide" before. So, if you can't waterboard Roeder, then who can you waterboard? He is the perfect candidate.
Also, in this case, there might literally be a ticking time bomb. He's been arrested for having bomb making material before! And he's a god-damned terrorist who just killed someone. What more do we need? We can't afford to wait while there might be another ticking time bomb out there.
We should start with waterboarding him and work our way up to even more enhanced interrogation. Now, some squeamish liberals who are soft on terrorism might disagree, but I'm sure all of my conservative friends agree, right? Sean Hannity? Rush Limbaugh? Bill O'Reilly? You're all on board for torturing this terrorist detainee, right?
I'm sure they'll be on TV talking about it on Monday. I'm sure of it. Because I know they don't think waterboarding and torture is just what we do to Muslim detainees. I know they're men of their word and would torture anyone suspected of terrorism, no matter what their race or political affiliation is. Right?
George Tiller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Abortion Doctor George Tiller Killed at Church, Police Say - Local ...
We need to always take the high ground, but not at the cost of lives. I believe a wise being once said, "Be as wise as the serpent, but as harmless as the dove." All's fair in love and war. The only restrictions are our own morality and sometimes the law*. Drowning people for a confession is so 19th century Salem. Today we just PRETEND we're drowning them. As American's, we're protected anyway. It's not like our President is trying to pass a law where the government can arrest us for any reason...
*Sometimes for those who make them or enforce them, but that is a topic for, well, another post. The topic must be talked about now and must reach all levels of government and civil life. From the president to corporations (today's nobility) to judges to police to clerks of court to the wealthy land owners that decide what happens in towns across America (REALLY wealthy ones decide what happens to the whole country **gasp**).
and
I believe that if we were looking for a person who deserved to be waterboarded
Then this guy is it
but
I think we should all keep in mind the principles that made this country great:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine"
You gotta love TP
Call the FBI, CIA, NSA, whoever, and tell them you want to be waterboarded for America. JUST DO IT! Or don't call yourself a patriot.
Way back in the nineties I wrote a college paper about Christian terrorists and anti-abortion violence. I corresponded with and interviewed people whoseideology was so loopy I didn't consider them credible representatives of the so called pro-life movement.
Now, 20 years later, I have heard so many so called pro-lifers express horror at the violence with the caveat that while it is wrong it is perfectly understandable, I think a case can be made that on this one issue the majority of the movement are loopy even if otherwise rational. A lot of them certainly provide comfort and encouragement to these terrorists.
Maybe a fair solution would be to waterboard all pro-lifers who have previously supported it. That could keep the FBI busy for decades sorting through all the valuable info John Q Smith and family of Anytown, USA would provide under duress.
Seems fair to me any way. I mean the b****** shot him in church for God's sake. Apparently no where is safe or sacred to some.
Great, now I have to explain why to my Conservative co-workers who read this why you would write such a thing.
If torture is an acceptable means of obtaining information, why aren't we waterboarding this man? Why isn't it happening in every police station across the country? I mean, if it works, and it isn't really that bad...why not? I wanna be safe! I demand it, so my police department had better be waterboarding that 20 year old arrested for drunk driving last night. After all, SOMEONE sold him that alcohol, and it won't be long before there's an accident, you know.
Under these examples and your logic, a DUI could be waterboarded if they refuse a blood alcohol test or a breathalizer test. I think a more effective use for waterboarding is at the polling places where people who can't spell Constitution must first prove they understand it before they're allowed to piss it away voting for candidates that care more about their power than they do about our country. At least victims of waterboarding survive, unlike victims of beheadings.
Nobody in this very satirical argument is suggesting that it is punishment. tjb22 is talking about getting information out of the DUI suspect to prevent possible loss of life (because someone is selling alcohol to underage people which could lead to drunk driving deaths). The analogy is a correct one. Conservatives are arguing that real torture is justified based on hypothetical arguments, with is absolutely ridiculous.
We are a part of that list of uncivilized cultures, thanks to people like you, who put their rightwing beliefs ahead of their morality. You disrespect America and what it stands for by supporting and engaging in torture. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I agree very much that all pro-lifers should not be condemned. However, those who engaged in inflammatory attacks against Tiller designed to paint him as a monster who broke the law and killed healthy infants for money are worthy of condemnation (O'Reilly is one of those).
Most terrorist groups claim some legitimate cause and believe that killing is justified in pursuit of that cause. Many are sanctioned by the religious leaders they follow. These people are true believers and absolute devotees to that which they are convinced is right, moral, necessary and even God's will. What they do is awful but you could argue these are not evil people but simply horribly misguided. Yet, they are supported and even held out as heroes in their communities.
This assessment could be one of two things: Either a left wing plot to justify Al Qaeda or the defense argument that will be used to defend the anti-abortion activists who kill. The former elicits spitting scorn from the right and the latter, lockstep support.
Just like torture. If it's done to us, a war crime. If it's done by us, "enhanced interrogation".
You almost can't wrap your mind around such an inconsistency.
Those who believe in violence are usually pleased that you think it something that can be joked about.
After all, joking about it something they do all the time.
The conclusion? The aforementioned people are supporters of domestic terrorism. And that, my friend, is no joke.
PROSECUTE DOMESTIC TERRORISM
It is not really about the Tiller case or those who engaged in inflammatory rhetoric about Tiller. It is more an indictment of the dangerous slippery slope for which the extreme right has been arguing. The author is just using a current event to frame that argument.
Using the arguments of the extreme right, the government could proclaim any pro-life organization Roeder was involved in to be terrorist in nature. They could waterboard Roeder to gain "information" that they could use to arrest others. They could arrest anyone involved in any way with Roeder and interrogate them as well, and keep them for months and years without trial. This is EXACTLY what the right is arguing for (it isn't even a slippery slope, we are already there).
This is a particularly powerful way to put the arguments of the conservatives in perspective. It is powerful because the thinking of the conservatives puts them at risk for the exact treatment they advocate.
Certainly it is satire, a ridiculous suggestion that should not be taken seriously. It is an indication that much of the country realizes how dangerous the hard core conservative position is.