Cenk Uygur

Cenk Uygur

Posted January 6, 2009 | 03:42 PM (EST)

What Was Israel Supposed to Do?

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The government of Israel keeps saying their actions in Gaza are justifiable because they are doing it in retaliation for what Hamas has done. Hamas says the same exact thing -- that they are firing the rockets in retaliation for what Israel did in imposing a blockade and bombing their tunnels and leaders. I find both points completely unpersuasive -- yes, including Israel's.

Every day now, I hear someone saying, "What was Israel supposed to do? Hamas keeps firing rockets into their country." So, here is a quick list of the things they were supposed to do:

1. Not break the cease-fire in the first place.

Yes, I understand their frustration with the tunnels, which are used not only to smuggle in food, medicine and goods, but also to smuggle in weapons. But those weapons were not being used until Israel started bombing the tunnels.

What were they supposed to do? Wait until the weapons were used? Yes! That's the point of a cease-fire. I know Israel would not like any of their enemies to have any weapons. From their perspective that makes sense. But Israel doesn't need tunnels for weapons, the US just gives them to them and their weapons are a thousand times bigger.

So, yes, you do not bomb just because the other side might acquire one percent of the weapons you have. Otherwise, you will always be bombing, because it is logical for the other side to try to acquire those weapons for what they perceive to be self-defense.

If you're threshold for starting violence is that the other side is thinking about it (close to the rationale we used in Iraq), then you will always be starting wars. Self-defense, my ass. Those are called first strikes. If you think it's necessary, fine, but don't pretend that you didn't start the hostilities.

2. You are stronger. Don't strike back.

I know people will say that's crazy. You have to retaliate! Otherwise you will show weakness! Again, that is exactly what Hamas says to their fellow Palestinians. "We have to strike back! We can't let the Israelis push us around anymore!"

And what do we tell them? Choose non-violence instead. I must have said that a million times in reference to Hamas and the Palestinians. So, why can't I say the same thing to Israel? Why are the Palestinians the only ones that must choose non-violence? Shouldn't Israel also choose non-violence?

In fact, the strong have a responsibility to be better than that. They can lead the way toward peace because they know if it comes down to all out war, they can destroy the other side.

Sometimes an older brother doesn't hit back his younger brother because he knows he can cause more damage than the little guy. That is being smart, responsible and decent. Hitting a UN school and killing 30 civilians, mostly children, is not being any of those things.

3. Make a peace deal already.

Here is the standard response to this: "We are ready to make a peace deal but the Palestinians won't agree. Arafat walked away from a deal in 2000. They don't want peace." That's horse crap. In negotiations, people accept certain deals and won't accept others. That's completely normal. Ehud Barak also walked away from that deal because he had an election coming up in the beginning of 2001. That's also normal. If people don't like deals enough, they walk away from them.

The biggest dispute was over what percentage of the West Bank Israel would keep. That is a perfectly fair dispute. Either side could have given in and taken a lower percentage. Neither side did.

Could Israel have had a deal if they gave up all of the West Bank, split Jerusalem and gave the right of return for Palestinian refugees? Absolutely. Every single negotiator involved in the process will tell you the Palestinians would have taken that deal in a second.

Now, if I was Israel would I take that deal? No. But that's my point; both sides could have a deal instantly if they gave up a little bit more than they are willing. So, to pretend only the Palestinians are unwilling to negotiate is silly. And right now, Israel says they can't negotiate with Hamas because Hamas won't recognize Israel's right to exist. And Hamas says Israel will not recognize their right to exist (which is true; in fact, Israel just started an invasion to eradicate Hamas). Both sides are ridiculously obstinate.

Again, it is incumbent upon the strong to bend a little, especially if they claim they really, really want peace. But even if you don't want to bend during the negotiations and you want to keep a slightly higher percentage of the West Bank, please don't pretend you didn't have a choice.

Finally, let me ask you this personal question to give you a sense of what people mean when they say Israel is acting disproportionately. Let's say you're walking down the street in your local town and you hear gun fire. You have a vague suspicion that someone is firing at you from a nearby school, would you firebomb the school just in case?

You know what the answer to that question is, if you're a decent human being. No way. You might be scared out of your mind. You might be afraid for your life. But you are not going to throw a bomb into a school full of children just in case (especially when you're not even sure that's where the shots are coming from). You would be called a psychopath if you did. But today, we hear excuses like, "Hey, that's what happens in wars." Maybe, that's why it is incumbent upon us to try a little harder to avoid them. So that we don't all act like psychopaths when they start.

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The government of Israel keeps saying their actions in Gaza are justifiable because they are doing it in retaliation for what Hamas has done. Hamas says the same exact thing -- that they are firing th...
The government of Israel keeps saying their actions in Gaza are justifiable because they are doing it in retaliation for what Hamas has done. Hamas says the same exact thing -- that they are firing th...
 
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Cenk, I'm kind of wondering where you were when Jordan and Egypt kicked these poor, poor, Palestinians out? OR, where you were when they were living in absolute squalor before they were kicked out? Or, more important, why you are silent on the REASONS they were kicked out of those countries?

No Arab country wants them. Do you wonder why? >>1970: King Hussein escapes gunman's bullet
King Hussein of Jordan has survived an assassination attempt after gunmen opened fire on his motorcade as it was driving near his summer palace. The shooting follows two days of fighting between Palestinian guerrillas and Jordanian troops in and around Amman in which up to 400 people are said to have been killed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 01/12/2009
- pdxsteve I'm a Fan of pdxsteve 4 fans permalink

You are making the assumption that Hamas wants peace. I'm quite sure that the Palestinian people want peace, but I have yet to see any evidence that Hamas is willing to make serious concessions towards Israel. Remember Camp David? Hamas had NOTHING to do with that. Arafat, despite all the faults attributed to him, was ultimately a reasonable human being. I have seen no such leader emerge from Hamas. It was just the other day its leadership affirmed the need to utterly destroy Israel. Even if a short-term ceasefire goes into effect, then what? While admittedly a ceasefire is better than nothing, I find it hard to envision any serious lasting treaty between Hamas and Israel. The very mission of Hamas is to destroy Israel...s­o either Hamas needs to undergo some dramatic transformation, or be removed from power. Ever since they expelled the Fatah, Hamas has been largely unchecked by anything except the IDF. Until some real constraint can be placed on Hamas, they will continue to practice what they preach: The removal of Israel for the map.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 01/08/2009
- Glamorosa I'm a Fan of Glamorosa 3 fans permalink
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It seems that everybody has a point of view like noses we all have them. War.......­.........d­oes NOT WORK
ARGUING DOES NOT WORK. AN EYE FOR AN EYE DOES NOT WORK. BLAMING AND JUDGING DOES NOT WORK.

Negotiation, peace talks, listening to others WORKS. Seeing it from the other persons shoes WORKS.
Compassion WORKS.....­..........­..........­..........­.....Its time to wake up we are all ONE regardless of race creed or colour etc

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 01/08/2009
- reliant1 I'm a Fan of reliant1 24 fans permalink
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Read the Hamas Charter - they agree with you - to achieve this peace it tis their solemn belief that all Christians and Jews must live under the loving umbrella of Islam and obey all of their laws, then everyone will be very very happy and thankful at peace.

It is also in their charter that any land ever conqured or held or governed by Islam - no matter when and no matter if the original land owners fight and rer-take their land - that it still belongs to Islam, as promised by Allah and it will remain their sole property unto the end of time. Look at a map of the lands Islam invaded, conquered and ruled - they believe it is still their land as promised to them by their god.

Hamas would see everyone as one - one under Islamic religious law. The eye for an eye thing would still go plus stoning and arranged marriages but at least everyone would be agreed on which god rules the roost.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 01/08/2009
- 11907281 I'm a Fan of 11907281 14 fans permalink
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So you think Hamas wants to make the country to look more Americas BFF's in the ME, Saudi Arabia?

"Look at a map of the lands Islam invaded, conquered and ruled - they believe it is still their land as promised to them by their god."

As opposed to Israel thinking the land was given to them by god? Do you not see the astounding level of hypocrisy to that statement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 01/08/2009
- starlady7 I'm a Fan of starlady7 28 fans permalink

Bravo! Also, if one must go to religious history, the land of Israel was given to the Jews by God back in the time of Moses. Also, in the time of Abraham, Isaac, his son by Sarah, was given preference over his son, Ismeal, by Sarah's arab handmaiden, Hagar. Thus God favored his jewish son and sent his arab son away. The land was given to the Jews, thus there can be no other claim! Actually, it would be good if the land was declared as a free zone that no one owed and was governed by the UN.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 01/08/2009

Re a number of comments below, and both Israel's and Hamas's use of the term "Cease Fire."

Cease Fire means both sides agree to stop firing.

That both sides have attached conditions to the pending one, and each has cited violations of conditions as violations of prior cease-fires is confusing the heck outta me.

If you want to say "truce", say "truce." Not "cease-fir­e."

Neither of which is a substitute for...

Peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 01/07/2009

Let's say you live in Michigan, for example, and some terrorists over in Canada have been launching Fajr-3 missiles all day long and you and your whole family has to spend up to 23 hours a day in a bomb shelter. Are you going to write your congressman to suggest that he urge the president not to retaliate because our weapons are bigger?

"Oh and leave those nice tunnels leading into Canada from the North Pole alone because the terrorists who dug them to get missiles in instead of medicine and baby formula might just be only thinking about using them on us, the people they have vowed to wipe from the face of the Earth, and besides, we don't want to appear to be pushy or overbearing! You know how people talk!"

Who do you think there is for Israel to make a peace deal already WITH? Don't you think Hamas knew exactly what Israel's response would be while they were bringing Iranian-ma­nufactured missiles through tunnels into Gaza? What do you think their objective was? Was it: A. to kill as many Israelis as possible? Or was it: B. to get as many innocent Palestinian non-combatants killed as possible? This isn't Hamas' first rodeo, you know. They know that killing large quantities of Israelis is a pipe dream. But killing their own people, especially women and children? Definitely doable! The Israelis are the only ones in this with any regard for human life, including their own.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 PM on 01/07/2009
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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If we were to finish your analogy, the US army would be occupying most of Alberta, Ontario and Quebec, we'd be building new cities there that only Americans could live in, and British Columbia would be under complete blockade, with its residents starving.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 01/07/2009
- Tasies I'm a Fan of Tasies 21 fans permalink
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Precisely. Those analogies are puerile.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 AM on 01/08/2009

Fine. Then let's look ahead. Too much tit-for-tat going back to 1948 if not earlier. Plenty to quibble about with the post, but why bother.

Revive Camp David 2000 / Taba 2001.

No peace between Israel and a neighbor has been accomplished without a broker, the US as it has happened. But it need not be the US.

Obama must get involved. Or given America's piss-poor performance in the ME the last 7.99 years, support French efforts.

But all that needs willing partners. And again, a broker.

Now for some bias: Israel has shown a greater willingness to move toward a two-state solution than Hamas. Hamas has indicated repeatedly they only want a one-state solution; theirs. Ain't gonna happen.

Further, the other Arab states have shown zilch support to Hamas, and in fact, with the exception of Syria, consider Hamas's extremism a threat to their own regimes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 01/07/2009
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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You people are useless in a debate. First you talk about how Hamas is supported by Syria and -- gasp! -- Iran! And then you vacillate to Hams being totally on their own.

You know who's on their own, with only the support of the US? Israel. I think we're in for one hell of a shakeup if the US forces the hand of the UN General Assembly on this matter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 01/07/2009
- Doris I'm a Fan of Doris 7 fans permalink

Hams are never totally on their own. They go well with eggs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 PM on 01/07/2009

Wowzers.

1) Hamas' support from Syria and Iran only differs from what I had written previously by your inclusion of Iran -- an oversight on my part. Doesn't change my point whatsoever. Other than those two, Hamas is not getting but lip service re civilian and humanitarian issues. Care to defend Syria and Iran? You're voice will be most welcome on HuffPo. ;-)

2) Israel continues to quake at the edicts of the UN General Assembly. Zionism = Racism, etc. Yawn. The Security Council -- the body with a say over TROOPS -- is still subject to US veto.

Israel's relations with other countries has grown stronger over time: i.e. Jordan and Egypt.

And Hamas, again, doesn't speak for all Palestinians: e.g. Palestinian Authority and the West Bank.

Last, per a good point by a Congressman on the news yesterday (which I saw the whole thing), and with respect to the 2006 (?) election that Hamas won... we should not be so naive as to presume ANY democracy is functional when either or both parties have a MILITIA.

You want chaos? Keep supporting Hamas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:13 PM on 01/07/2009
- BBackSoon I'm a Fan of BBackSoon 39 fans permalink
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Not that anyone has asked for my two cents but here goes.

I feel that Israel is simply (Not sarcastic) trying to dominate Gaza while they still can. I think they are afraid and rightfully so, that Obama will not be in such tight lockstep as BushCo as been. If and when the USA condemns the iron fisted actions of Israel and calls them out for never keeping their side of a bargain, we might actually see some change.

I am reminded of a story of why most police forces don’t use female dogs. It seems that some female dogs enjoy their job so much that when ordered to guard a suspect, the dogs are known to lean on the suspect until they are physically pushed off balance, once the suspect moves the dogs attack.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 01/07/2009
- triplbee I'm a Fan of triplbee 26 fans permalink

I wonder if we will start seeing sane, balanced analysis like this in the mainstream media.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 01/07/2009
- digdeeper I'm a Fan of digdeeper 18 fans permalink

Brilliant comment. thanks particularly about Israel's constant whine that they have a right to exist whereas Hamas has not. and your comment about big brother/little brother.
Thank you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 01/07/2009
- Doris I'm a Fan of Doris 7 fans permalink

Also - right of return. Do the Jews get to go back to their previous homes in Arab countries they were kicked out of? There used to be a very large and vibrant Jewish community in Iraq - but, they were all violently run out when the state of Israel was created.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 01/07/2009
- rjmiller I'm a Fan of rjmiller 15 fans permalink

So you're saying that Israel should base their policy on the policies of their racist, fascist enemies? And while they're at it they should put all of the Germans into concentration camps, run an Inquisition on all Catholics, and force all the Polish into segregated ghettos. That makes sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 01/07/2009
- Doris I'm a Fan of Doris 7 fans permalink

No, I'm saying the Arab countries shouldn't insist on something they would not be willing to give.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 01/07/2009
- triplbee I'm a Fan of triplbee 26 fans permalink

Doris,

The Iraq to which you are referring was not supported and subsidized by the United States. Part of the objection to Israel's insanely violent policy towards the Palestinians is that our taxes are supporting their militarism. Also, very few people with even the faintest understanding of Jewish history will suggest that the Jews have had an easy go of it. But that is simply not an excuse for killing and oppressing innocent people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 PM on 01/07/2009
- Doris I'm a Fan of Doris 7 fans permalink

the point you make about Iraq is irrelevant. The question is: the right of return. Is this a reasonable request? Personally, I think it is unreasonable - considering what became of Jews in Arab countries - and that is why they make it. It is an obstacle to peace.

And, I'm not "lump"ing all Arab countries into one (the Palestinians) - I'm speaking of something all the other Arab countries support and demand on behalf of the Palestinians.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 01/07/2009

Our taxes are paying for intelligence - the only reliable intelligence in the middle east. Out taxes helped pay for all the Soviet weaponry used by the Muhudajeen to repel the Soviets. I say helped because Israel collected those armaments (the largest, most diverse and pristine collection of its kind anywhere in the free world - like new!) as they were dropped or otherwise abandoned by all of the invading Arab armies over the course of several wars, just before they surrendered or ran away. The US wanted some of it for Afghanistan. Our taxes go where they go. Maybe, when the time comes, you'd prefer to destroy Iran's nuclear installations yourself rather than have another nickel of your hard earned money go to Israel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 01/07/2009

Jewish community in Yemen too. (Google "Operation Magic Carpet.")

Note further how LITTLE the Arab states that attacked Israel in 1948 (at least one, Iraq, with no common border) did for the refugees created by the war they started upon Israel's acceptance of the UN Partition Plan and Declaration of Independence.

In 1948, Israel supported a two-state solution from its inception. When will the Arabs, let alone the Palestinians?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 01/07/2009
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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Really? Because David Ben-Gurion's own words seem to say otherwise. I'd post quotes but really, just plug his name into Google and see what comes up. There is just so much he had to say with regards to Israel's commitment to Palestinian rights that I really can't do it justice here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 01/07/2009
- Doris I'm a Fan of Doris 7 fans permalink

"But those weapons were not being used until Israel started bombing the tunnels."

what are you talking about? Hamas has been shooting those rockets for months.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 01/07/2009
- triplbee I'm a Fan of triplbee 26 fans permalink

Hamas was actually honoring the ceasefire. From their perspective the whole point of the cease fire was for Israel to lift the blockade. That's why Hamas agreed to it in the first place. When months passed and the blockade wasn't lifted, Hamas resumed the rocket fire. Generally, when one side refuses to abide by the agreements set out in a truce, the truce falls apart.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 01/07/2009
- Doris I'm a Fan of Doris 7 fans permalink

the blockade was not lifted because Hamas did not live up to it's agreement to not smuggle in weapons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 01/07/2009

Hamas honoring the cease fire? Why not! Give em loads a time to smuggle all those new Fajr-3 missiles through the tunnels! But no baby formula or medicine - that would be CRAZY! (how can missiles be justified with the Gaza brimming with baby formula and medicine? silly!)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 01/07/2009
- digdeeper I'm a Fan of digdeeper 18 fans permalink

Look at the history Doris

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 01/07/2009
- S1m0n I'm a Fan of S1m0n 98 fans permalink
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Israel was supposed to obey international law, and the conventions respecting crimes of war, military occupation. And above all, Israel is supposed fulfil its pledge--made when they signed the United Nations Charter--to refrain entirely from attempting to expand territory militarily.

And if they'd done all that, they wouldn't having this conflict to begin with.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 AM on 01/07/2009
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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Fantastic article, sir. People like you need to have a voice in this peace process.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 01/07/2009

One hundred per cent right.
You can't have a ceasefire or a peace deal unless you talk to the people you are fighting.
To pretend otherwise is worse than crazy - it's a deliberate lie by someone who has no intention of seeking peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 01/07/2009

Well put. Where's the end game?
When your sister is killed by a thug you may want to kill the thug. But in our society, we have supposedly given up the right to knee-jerk kill-for-revenge and we are ruled by laws which usually put the thug in jail or to death. The thug's relatives don't tend to vow revenge. Our system presents the crime for society to judge. This doesn't mean that you personally are pleased with the justice meted out, but you accept it. The cycle of violence cannot start. Israel is a country of victims. Most have a relative that has been killed, by Germany or by the ongoing conflict. Palestinians are in a similar boat minus Germany. With both parties feeling like you did about the thug...wha­t you must have is a rule of law. Revenge is why we allow ourselves to be ruled by laws.
One of the parties has to stop. One of them needs to actively pursue diplomacy. Diplomacy in the 90s - violence was down. Peace will not happen if bee stings instigate retaliation. One party needs to be the adult here ... and I very much doubt that it will be Hamas. Hamas is loving the grass roots of its neighbors. I'm sure they's love this support to influence govt. policy. It is playing Israel and Israel is falling for it hook, line and sinker.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 01/07/2009
- zjr909 I'm a Fan of zjr909 23 fans permalink

Thank you for this article. It's good to be reminded that both sides bear responsibility when something goes as terribly wrong as this has.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 AM on 01/07/2009
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