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Cenk Uygur

Cenk Uygur

Posted: December 30, 2009 09:14 AM

Why Jane Hamsher and Howard Dean Can't Be Wrong

What's Your Reaction:

Can Jane Hamsher or Howard Dean be wrong on the substance of policy issues? Of course!!! I don't think they often are, but recently there have been many progressives who have thought so. These were reasonable disagreements and everyone was within their full right to think Dean or Hamsher might not have gotten the balance right on any particular issue.

So, why can't they be wrong?

Because even if you disagree with them, they're doing you a huge favor. If you're a strong progressive and you think Howard Dean has gone out too far left on health care reform or Jane Hamsher has attacked President Obama too hard from the left -- then, fantastic, you are now officially a moderate!

And more importantly, so is Obama.

Why is this so important? I'm not sure you particularly want to be moderate, and I'm certainly not sure you are one. But that's not the point. The point is that the mainstream media loves people who they can call "moderates." If Joe Lieberman is somewhere between Obama and Cheney, no matter how far to the right he is, he gets to be called a moderate. Why? Because there's someone to the right of him.

Now, you have someone to the left of you. Congratulations, you made it! You're now part of the cool crowd in DC, the only people that the establishment media care about or give any credence to -- moderates.

I get thrown into the Hamsher category because I believe in attacking hard from the left. Some have started to call this the Uygur Doctrine, which, of course, I love. The reality is I'm a political moderate who until about a month ago believed we should stay longer in Afghanistan and that single payer was not the way to go. But it's not my positions that matter as much as my attitude. We have to, have to, have to attack Obama from the left. If we don't, he is seen as the far left and the whole spectrum shifts even further right than it already is.

If Obama is seen as the middle that helps him. So, even if you think Jane is crazy to team up with Grover Norquist and her attacks have no merit (you would be wrong on that, by the way), you have to send her a thank you note for making Obama look centrist. Rahm might not be happy about their target, but he has to be happy with how the politics of it plays out for the president.

But much more importantly, this isn't about Obama. This is about moving the spectrum. If there is no real and credible left-wing that fights back, then the entire political landscape gets pushed down to the right. This has huge policy implications, as we just saw in the health care fight.

Besides which, what do we have to lose? We lost the public option. We're going to lose on climate change (nearly a foregone conclusion at this point). Financial reform is terribly watered down and getting weaker by the minute. The war in Afghanistan has already been escalated, twice. Do I need to go on? This is what you get when there is no credible threat from the left.

Worst case scenario, Dean and Hamsher lose (I understand their tactics are entirely different, and in some ways I hate to lump them in together, but I do because they are among the few making real noise on the left), and they move the spectrum left and make other progressives look moderate. Best case scenario, they win! Dare we dream?

I know what some of you are thinking -- that's not the worst case scenario. The worst case is somehow their attacks on Obama help Republicans win. But if you buy into that, then you have to pack your bags and go home. That means you are never willing to forcefully challenge Obama out of the fear that it might somehow hurt him. While I'm sure he appreciates that, I can guarantee you that he will thank you by completely ignoring you (and your policy priorities). Asking politely is obviously not getting the job done.

Real political pressure by definition involves the possibility of real political pain. If you're not willing to go that far, then in my humble opinion you are too risk averse to have any consequential role to play in current day politics. Politics is about power, if you don't ever wield it, then you're not really in the game.

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10:07 AM on 02/19/2010
Let me add Cenk Ugyer to those names.

Cenk Ugyer, Jane Hamsher, and Howared Dean.

Political pressure ALWAYS works. In fact, it's our job as citizens in a democracy. Without it there would not have been a New Deal and without it there will be no health care reform.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
racetoinfinity
restore Glass-Steagall now!
05:36 AM on 01/22/2010
You're talking about the famous "Overton Window"

See -

http://www.correntewire.com/the_overton_window_illustrated
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
1murillo
Can't be neutral on a moving train - Zinn
06:53 AM on 01/03/2010
Uygur,
Though I look forward to your perspectives, your "Hamsher and Dean can't be wrong" notion is wrongheaded. It might be true that a better bill - still yet to be determined but it appears the final bill will be softer than many of us would have liked - could have been written for Obama. However, saving lives and resources of millions of Americans has to be the bottom line: I'm sure those with pre-existing conditions and those that will eventually be covered are thankful that a bill will be passed.
Dean, Hamsher, you and many other people arguing for a "better bill" aren't immediately worried about health insurance.
An OK bill today is much better than a perfect bill in 20 years.
10:19 AM on 01/09/2010
No No. Plan D was a tainted plan from the getgo and it has NOT been improved. It has become a greater burden on all of us who were forced to take it. More and more drugs dropped from the formulary's and higher and higher co-payments EVERY SINGLE YEAR IT HAS BEEN PUT INTO PLACE.. NO BILL IS BETTER THAN A FLAWED BILL.

Stop being so gullible. We have a weak president who is not even interested in Main Streeters.

Obviously the lobbyists are prevailing again.
09:56 PM on 01/01/2010
Good observations, but given many of the responses obviously lacking sufficient emphasis be understood.

Of course, labels do change over time. I considered myself a moderate back in the '60s and did not find the concept of 'tax and spend liberals' particularly laughable. Ted Kennedy was noticeably to the left of where I felt comfortable back then and remained so throughout his career, even though I felt that his heart was in the right place.

Many of today's 'moderates', by contrast, would have been much more comfortable in the Goldwater camp back then, with many of today's 'progressives' resembling more run-of-the-mill '60s Republicans. But since the 'liberal' label got tarnished there seem to be a lot of people who'd like to think of themselves as 'progressive' without actually walking the walk that such a label used to imply.

Which is probably why Obama gets such an easy gentleman's C from that contingent. As for me, I'd be much happier if he could even manage to move as far to the left as Nixon was - but I'm not holding my breath, since (as you so clearly understand) I don't see any significant base willing to push him there.
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RustNeverSleeps
Hooah
10:54 AM on 12/31/2009
Excellent points Cenk.
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karela
12:57 AM on 12/31/2009
Disagree with the article. All the things we didn't want watered down got watered down WHILE the likes of Hamsher and the far left were attacking the President and the party. All they accomplished was helping to create a splintered group of people who have less power than when they stand together. This President wanted the public option. He couldn't get it. He talked to many Senators every day. Don't you think he knew what the lay of the land was? We don't like what Lieberman did. I hate it. But if we hadn't kept him in the tent, we wouldn't be passing anything at all because he'd be caucusing with the Republicans. Hasn't anybody noticed that all his friends are over there and that he looks like he's thinking of running for President as a Republican? This way, we get watered down, but we get progress. Anybody who doesn't think it's progress to end the denial of payment and coverage because of a pre-existing condition or because you got sick and needed your insurance--------well, they just haven't been paying attention if they can't see how crucial that is. I know a thirty year old mother of four who is dying because of it right now and it's so expensive to die that her husband and children will be left without a home. This is important legislation. As is the rest of the bill.
02:39 AM on 12/31/2009
"This President wanted the public option. He couldn't get it."

REALLY? Your President must be different from mine, because mine -- while making pretty speeches CLAIMING he wanted the public option -- twisted not a single Blue Dog, Republican, or "moderate" arm to make it happen. On the contrary, he (through Rahm) rained down hellfire and brimstone on the progressives who had the temerity to ask him to keep his promises.

So your "he wanted the PO and he tried, really tried! It's just that durned Congress..." argument is a fine sounding one except for all that pesky, you know, reality contradicting it.

Read the actual news sometime, not just the OFA press releases.
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pyradius
Death by a thousand tax cuts
03:01 PM on 12/31/2009
No, you deluded Progressives heard him make a minor comment about it and suddenly he was the CHAMPION OF THE PUBLIC OPTION RAWR!!! You can try and blame your fanatical delusions as a fantastical let-down from Obama, but I certainly don't remember him being some major champion of this. Saying you would like something and becoming some die-hard champion of it (aka a Progressive) are two entirely different things.
04:09 AM on 12/31/2009
With all due respect that is pretzel logic.
It presumes that the Conservadems that have obstructed progressive health care reform will all be defeated in their respective re-electioin campaigns. That somehow the winds of change will blow more fierce when it becomes woefully apparent how inept this bill is.
What part of NO PUBLIC OPTION....NO MANDATE don't you understand?
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12:18 AM on 12/31/2009
Splintering plays right into Repub hands. But that's how we are, right? Repubs are a minority, who do nothing but shill for the oligarchy. Yet, they can win because, when we gain control, we idealists always eat the pragmatists with our 'holier than thou' games. The 'art of the possible' isn't enough. We send our leaders to die on some unclimbable hill. Because we can't bear the thought that ruling requires solidarity.

E.g., in 2000 Gore lost Florida and the presidency by less than 500 votes. Nader got 2%, thereby entirely undermining his legacy; because Dubya inflicted so much damage in the next two terms that no one, not BO, Hillary, Biden, Sanders, Feingold, or even Kucinich, our ultimate hero, could possibly undo it all, even given equal time.

Yet, here we are - amidst a Dubya-launched DEPRESSION - already re-contemplating hara kiri! If you sit out 2010/2012 forcing BO out of office and/or let the Repubs drown Congress, just what do you think will happen - other than HELL?

As it stands, BO can't even fix SCOTUS because Ginsberg's sick and Stevens is 89. So, his next two appointments will change nothing. So, the Bush I/II-stacked SCOTUS is about to vote 5/4 to make corporations people - with free speech/bribery rights - so Congress will remain interminably corrupt. Just one tiny outcome of Nader's little run. Beware the unintended consequences.
02:19 AM on 12/31/2009
Corporate personhood is around a hundred years old and Gore lost an election because he was incredibly unappealing to the majority of the country. If you think ordering the 2% of actual progressives in the country to shut up and fall in line is going to get you anywhere while you give the 50% to the right of Gore a pass to vote their consciences you are really fundamentally bad at understanding politics and Part Of The Problem.
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imfedup
Fight the lies.
12:20 PM on 12/31/2009
The legislation referred to would allow corporations to contribute directly to political candidates -- possibly the worst idea in the history of the world. Never mind that the people who actually own the company -- the shareholders -- hold all kinds of opinions that are very likely not consistent with the corporation's. They would be -- in effect -- using our money to buy politicians, which isn't legal right now.
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07:33 PM on 12/31/2009
If Gore was so unpopular to the MAJORITY of the country, then how did he manage to win the popular vote count? No, Gore lost because the Jeb Boy, Kathleen Rogers, and the Bush I- loaded SCOTUS pulled out all stops to tilt the Florida count in Dubya's favor. Or you could say Gore lost because Ralph took away a few too many. I still recall reports of Sandra Day O'Connor crowing in the back room about it. I doubt she had a clue back then how crummy Dubya would turn out to be. But either way, just like Ralph, those were unintended outcomes they can both choke on.

High-mindedness is individually a fine thing. If BO is ahead by 10 pts, then fine, vote Nader or Kucinich, whatever. But if it's really close, keeping your conscience clean with a moral victory can amount to throwing all of us to the wolves. There's no turning back the page of history.
02:41 AM on 12/31/2009
And again, despite the fact that the center- and fairly-far-right Democrats are pushing the entire party to the right, it's somehow the PROGRESSIVES who are to blame for not simply putting aside our policy goals (you know, social justice, an economic security net, REAL health care reform -- little things) for the Greater Good of making sure the D's chalk up more victories at the polls.

No, I refuse to buy it this time. I didn't vote for Nader in 2000, but this time around, I will. When both choices are equally repugnant, what does it matter if your vote is purely symbolic? At least make it one you can be proud of.
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02:18 PM on 12/31/2009
If Gore had won, would we be in Iraq? Would we have done nothing on global warming for 8 years, had a castrated EPA, had political appointees censoring our science agencies? Had a Gitmo, a Patriot Act, ignored our Constitution and Geneva Accords, had a complete economic meltdown, be in a Depression, had Halliburton, Blackwater, KBR, Triton, had a SCOTUS about to legalize complete corporate bribery of Congress? And that stark list doesn't even begin to cover the all the lost ground.

Scream and whine now all you want to push congress and BO as far left as possible. BUT when it comes time to vote, if it's really a choice between BO and someone like Palin, don't be stupid.
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07:07 PM on 12/31/2009
History doesn't say much about the proud bodies of the morally victorious because it's mainly written by winners.
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DonRoberto
07:57 PM on 12/30/2009
We don't need Jane Hamsher and Howard Dean leading fifth column actions inside our ranks, nor do we need to damage President Obama in some way.

What we do need --- what we have always needed --- are vocal, visible progressive public demonstrations, with our feet on the street and some new statement or new action reported in each and every daily news cycle.

Presidents can't threaten unless they have something to threaten with; LBJ was only able to push JFK's civil rights legislation thru in part because there was strong and increasing public pressure behind him. Without such public pressure, our current President has little to work with.
10:29 PM on 12/30/2009
you're right..no Dean....only zombie steps behind Barack Reagan...we need to be able to vote out politicians who do not do our bidding as lobbyist vote in the people who do theirs,let alone openly complain.
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DonRoberto
12:32 PM on 12/31/2009
No President has ever created a law under the Constitution.

President Obama did not "do your bidding", so you want to throw *him* out, hmm?

If folks like you had paid attention prior to 2008, we might have Progressive majorities in the House and Senate, and progressive legislation would glide thru.

And if folks like you had paid attention in civics class, you'd know that Presidents don't make the law --- Congress does. The President has a veto, which he can use when the legislation comes his way.

Real progressives will support President Obama, and put pressure on our elected officials in Congress, because that's the way to make *progress*. Pseudo-progressive poseurs who posture and draw lines in the sand are the zombies --- i.e., beings whose actions are entirely disconnected from their own intention.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
onedivasinger
A creative girl in a limited world!
11:40 PM on 12/30/2009
I am sorely disappointed in Jane Hamsher. I am stunned that Howard Dean ( a man I supported and contributed to a lot) would go there. Just so you know, I did not vote for President Obama because he "wasn't" Bush. I didn't vote for him and work hard during his campaign because I wanted to project my dreams on him. I seriously didn't know that there were so many in the progressive/liberal community that would rather see even more people suffer while they blow apart what we worked for in less than a year. I sometimes get the impression that there are people in our community that have been paid off by the right. I don't think that about Hamsher and Dean, but there is no doubt in my mind that there are other agendas at play here. Ones that are not looking at the broader view. Idealism seems to have been overtaken by a sort of self destructive need to win at all costs before the starting gate even opens. I used to think it was just passion, but seeing what lobbyists can do, I wonder if they aren't involved more than we know. Just puttin' it out there...
02:24 AM on 12/31/2009
Destructive "winning at all costs": supporting policy that reflects your beliefs

Benign non-"winning at all costs": Well, we gave up on single payer, we gave up on public option, we're gonna give a pass to expanding existing entitlements or really regulating insurance too, "universal healthcare" now means everyone buys insurance at whatever price the insurance company sees fit, and we're giving $600 out of $800 million dollars earmarked for healthcare reform straight to the guys we just spent months bitching about the total lack of business ethics of, but we're GONNA PASS SOME KIND OF BILL WE'LL CALL HEALTHCARE REFORM IN TIME FOR CHRISTMAS OR ELSE!
02:44 AM on 12/31/2009
How has Obama advanced liberal/progressive/democratic ideals? How?

I'm sorry, why you voted for him in 2008 -- and I voted for him too -- and why you might vote for him again in 2012 are two separate things.

I voted for him in 2008, and there's simply no way in HELL I'll vote for him again in 2012 unless he makes some serious course-corrections (which is sort of Cenk's point).

That's not Jane or Howard's fault. That's Barack's fault.
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pmorlan
07:54 PM on 12/30/2009
Great piece. I sure hope all of the people, who have been under the illusion that they were politically savvy for blindly supporting Obama at every turn will finally get a clue that they are, not only not savvy but hopelessly naive.
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onedivasinger
A creative girl in a limited world!
10:31 AM on 12/31/2009
Talk about naive...only fatalists would try and blow things up to make them better. Of course, I guess some people got used to things in chaos under Bush...
06:45 PM on 12/30/2009
< I get thrown into the Hamsher category because I believe in attacking hard from the left. Some have started to call this the Uygur Doctrine, which, of course, I love. The reality is I'm a political moderate who until about a month ago believed we should stay longer in Afghanistan and that single payer was not the way to go. But it's not my positions that matter as much as my attitude. We have to, have to, have to attack Obama from the left. If we don't, he is seen as the far left and the whole spectrum shifts even further right than it already is. >

Excellent, well stated, Cenk. Your commentary at www.TheYoungTurks.com is now the best, hardest-hitting, most insightful commentary anywhere in America today (at least regarding genuinely Democratic party & policy issues) - and you do it with your calm, understated, never excited style at that.
(As compared to, for example, Max Keiser, who starts shouting "THROW THE FINANICAL TERRORISTS IN THE HAGUE!" (www.MaxKeiser.com), or even Ed Schultz, who will freely admit that his blood pressure is rising as he recounts the TRAITOR "Democrat" obstructionists, and Dick Cheney's back-stabbing, blaming Democrats for HIS 9-11 dereliction of duty (treason).

Keep up the great work, Golddamn-Sachs IS NOT a "Democratic" company, now matter how much the pay in bribes to the "Democrat" Party & current White House, and American NEEDS and DESERVES a party NOT BEHOLDEN to the Right-WIng financiers.
09:03 PM on 12/30/2009
I say attack from the left because we mean it.

Not so Rahm et al can dismiss us as the radical left.
06:32 PM on 12/30/2009
This article made my day better.
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deepfreezevideo
Now with even MORE microbial micro-bio!
06:23 PM on 12/30/2009
Cenk makes sense!
05:38 PM on 12/30/2009
You know a third party candidate is what u need. Both the far out lefties/blue dogs and the repubs can join to hate on Obama. Once that group of white people get together maybe PBO can get some work done. These people all have the same agenda. The dumb reasons of policy differences will no longer be needed. Hate the President everyday. Stop pretending.
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kurd55
Proud Nerd
06:11 PM on 12/30/2009
Sorry, but 3rd Party candidates are losers. It's just a fact.
09:51 PM on 12/30/2009
thats my point.....a aparty for losers
05:36 PM on 12/30/2009
Cenk's hits the mark again. I am truly tired of getting jerked around and will take this opportunity in resurgent liberalism to go for the gold.
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bighat
Truth as I see it
05:24 PM on 12/30/2009
Why do we need moderates. We need people who will act on their beliefs in a lawful manner of course. We are not even seeing compromising. We are seeing the buying of votes.

Would the healthcare bill been better if congress were closer to a 50/50 balance instead of the heavily dominant fragmented democratic party. I believe so. Not that we would exactly seen statesman ship but maybe we would not have seen the selling of votes.

I would even go so far as to say American would have been better off by controlling one house or the other but just by a couple of votes.
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pyradius
Death by a thousand tax cuts
03:16 PM on 12/31/2009
I'm pretty sure that as an Attorney, Obama would destroy any inkling you think you have of our Legal System, and that is not blindly following the man. I've thoroughly read the article against Emmanuel, and while I think there was some shadiness there, most of it was likely negligence, or at least that is the most that would ultimately be proved in a long drawn-out court battle. And ultimately, who do you think this decision would damage in the long-run? Certainly not the Republicans.

I'm not saying blindly tout the party-line, but what I am saying is choose your battles wisely.