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Charles London

Charles London

Posted: February 19, 2010 04:02 PM

Dr. Gordis's Jewish Problems

What's Your Reaction:

In his latest column for the Jerusalem Post, Daniel Gordis -- a rightly admired Jewish thinker of the conservative ilk -- wades into the war of words between the left-leaning New Israel Fund and the right-leaning campus organization Im Tirzu. He takes as his jumping off point the inflammatory translation of Isaiah 49:17 (promising the Israelites that "your destroyers and despoilers shall leave you") rendering it as "Those who destroy and despoil you will come from amongst you." It's a mistranslation, Gordis, observes, but he also notes that it rings true.

His argument is best summed up when he states emphatically, "The Jewish People is at war" and that in war, people must sacrifice certain liberties, like free speech, for survival.

He writes:

The issue is what a people at war for its very survival can allow itself. The issue is whether as the world's noose tightens around the very notion of Israel's legitimacy, Jews can allow themselves the liberties we might otherwise permit ourselves were we not fighting for our very existence. As the fate of Isaiah's prophecy reminds us, it takes only a few words to move from a vision of a secure future to one in which those who could destroy us come from our very own midst.

I have some serious objections to his argument.

In my experience around the world, the Jewish people are not at war. There are Bosnian Jews building institutions in cooperation with their Muslim and Christian neighbors; there are Ugandan Jews who are at war with Malaria, HIV, and poverty, but not with some eternal anti-Jewish enemy. There are Iranian Jews struggling alongside Sunni, Shiite, Christian, and Baha'i for the very "liberties" their government denies all Iranians. There are Israeli Jews who are trying to build democratic institutions, multi-ethnic schools, and interfaith understanding, all of whom should take serious umbrage at his characterization of the Jews as a people at war. We have challenges, both internal and external. How do we mainstream the concerns and perspectives of non-European Jews? How do we engage a new generation in Jewish life or get younger Jews to care about what happens in Israel? How do we calm the ferocious anger between the Jewish left and the Jewish right? How do we secure ourselves in the face of violent extremism? How do we promote Israel as a legitimate state?

The language of militarism won't do it. Suggesting that criticism will lead to the end of the Jewish people not only sows paranoia and division, it also shares a totalitarian logic with a wide array of past dictators, including Ayatollah Khamenei's critiques of Iran's Green movement. This is not company I imagine Dr. Gordis would want to keep.

More disturbing than this martial rallying cry, however, is his idea that a society at war must curtail its democratic institutions, that the values we hold dear as essential to a good life and a free society can be so easily annihilated by violence or by criticism. This is the Dick Cheney argument in a nutshell, the one that justifies torture and illegal wiretaps and the assassination of citizens without oversight and indefinite detention. As Retired General Donald Edwards has noted in an op-ed "Cheney's Terrorists", these tactics create more terrorists and make people less safe. If you take the Gordis premise as true, and the Jewish people are a people at war, then these tactics are not a way to win.

Even more disturbing about Gordis's argument, however, from a Jewish point of view, is that seeing important societal values as things that can be sacrificed in the face of threats, undermines the spiritual survival of Judaism for the material survival of a nation-state. As Rich Cohen observed in his loving and irreverent ode to Zion, "Israel is Real," the land has been turned into the Temple by contemporary Zionism. Dr. Gordis's fear, like those of the Hebrews of old, is that that the physical Temple, beset by enemies, will be sacked. This would be a tragedy, but it would be worse if Jewish ideals were also toppled in the process.

Having a homeland is vital to a people. Gordis makes an important point when he compares the fate of Tibetans in the 20th century to the fate of Jews in the 20th century, but one thing the Tibetans have mastered, and that I fear that arguments like Gordis's war without end and war that values cannot endure undermines is the spiritual genius of our culture. Jews have not survived for 2500 years because of nation-states, nor because they were not willing to risk life and limb for higher values. They have not survived merely to survive.

I once heard Dr. Gordis speak about the armed conflict in Israel and his children's service in the IDF. He told the audience that he always advised his children to go out and be moral in doing their duty, but not so moral that they end up dead. It's good, realistic advice for a soldier.

"If they are firing at you from a hospital," he advised. "Fire back!" The San Diego audience erupted in cheers when he said this (which demonstrated to me an audience that did not know they were at war either...in war you don't cheer this kind of thing, as I'm sure any IDF soldier could tell you). But he seems to have the same advice for the Jewish people as a whole that he does for a soldier in combat: no value is more important than your safety.

That is a sure way to win a battle and lose a war.

 
 
 

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01:38 PM on 02/23/2010
We see endless posts, citing historical data, who came first, what WAS what, and so on. But life did not stop then, it went on, as it should have. Those who remain mired in the past, do not continue and move on into the new age, have problems much larger than their perceived, or even real grievances­. As human beings we can not stop the clock. We age, like it or not. We can not stop the time. It moves on. If we deny reality, we live in something that does not exist; a fantasy world of our own making. Much has happened in sixty years. If one makes a choice to prolong one's suffering ad infinitem, that is a personal choice. Not a realist choice. Not a wise choice. If a country makes a choice not to assist and absorb immigrants­, refugees, and others for more than half a century, it does injustice to those persons, but not only to them, to their very own country. People who remain second class, refugees, have no rights remain a perpetual burden on society and that society pays a price for that.
01:49 PM on 02/23/2010
This is a very wise post and is the crux of my commentary­. I have many historical greivances­, but in today's world, the practical and the realist solutions are the most advisable. No one wants the Palestinia­ns and the evidence is the lack of any attempt to integrate them into any of the neighborni­ng states. The Palestinia­ns, and for that matter, the Israelis, need to come to an accomodati­on and a realist Palestinia­n statesman has not arrived yet. One can hope one arrives before too long.
08:46 PM on 02/23/2010
The posts that you and mommamia place are always very cogent and erudite. And rational. Rational people realize that the continuous repetition of the same arguments, informatio­n, misinforma­tion do nohing to bring a solution to this long boiling crisis any closer.

But then, not everyone is rational; nor do they want to end the crisis on any but their own maximalist terms. I think that it is clear that the Israelis have been, and continue to seek, some compromise that would not endanger their security, or their status as a state for the Jews. The Arabs, and the palestinia­ns specifical­ly seem to continue to adamantly oppose that. In the past, they have tried economic embargoes, formal wars, terrorism, all without success. Now they and their supporters are trying to de-legitim­ize, demonize, and have the world de-constru­ct what they could not. And they are doing this by trying to re-write and twist history so that by using what is being termed "lawfare", they hope to achieve their goals.

That is why it is necessary to counter each historical misstateme­nt, each legal misapplica­tion. It is tedious, tiresome, repetitiou­s work, because even as each misstateme­nt is disproven, it is repeated in the next post, neverthele­ss. But to let it slide risks a vacuum that will be filled with further lies.
03:50 PM on 03/25/2010
In the midst of offensive actions and defensive over-react­ions, it’s too easy to lose sight of the ideals of all who seek peace. We support democracy and respect for all. We decry all violence and war. We beg all people to unite around these shared values to find a plan we can all support.

There is only room for one government within Israel and the occupied territorie­s. No amount of killing and relocation will resolve the difference­s. It seems all the people here are the descendant­s of David, and it is certain they are all human, thus deserving of the same basic rights. If we demand an eye for an eye, we’ll all be blind in the end.

We call for immediate elections supervised by the OSCE and/or the UN to select a body representi­ng the current residents of Israel and the occupied territorie­s. Once the elections have been certified free and fair by internatio­nal observers, this body will be empowered to draft a constituti­on for Israel, which has never had such a document.

Obviously, we’d like to see that body embrace respect for universal human rights, regardless of religion or ethnicity. It would be great to have fair return and immigratio­n policies and a process of truth and reconcilia­tion. But this is not for us to decide. We respect the sovereignt­y of the people who actually live there. This proposal seems to us the most direct route to sustainabl­e peace in the Middle East.
01:27 PM on 02/23/2010
My father was an immigrant. I have seen and experience­d first hand what that means. I am also an immigrant, and know firsthand what that experience is personally­. Kids who were born in the country of origin and lived there a few years have some ties and memories. Those who were born elsewhere have only ties and memories to the new country. The parents after some time, do not really fully fit in in the new country, but they have also outgrown the country of origin. Everyone's life goes on. Countries change, language and meaning changes, culture changes. That is even more so if there are not only new immigrants­, but all of them have another religion, another culture, other goals, other expectatio­ns, and a totally different language. Children, again, adjust. They go to school in the new country, but it takes a few generation­s, and if on some points no adjustment is possible, nothing is to be expected to result from such migrations­. On the contrary.
01:22 PM on 02/23/2010
All history aside for just this moment. Let us be practical. There are and have been Palestinia­n *Refugee Camps* in Lebanon, in Syria, in Jordan, the PA territorie­s, etc. For over sixty (60!!) yrs. Let us assume the first inhabitant­s of those camps really all came from what is now Israel - they did not - and see what happened, possibly in that time. Their migration out of (Israel??) and into (Lebanon??­) was a traumatic experience­, or so they say. In the meantime generation­s were born, people died, children grew up and married, made connection­s and friends elsewhere. The experience is much like the experience of immigrants with this exception: their *host countries* did not allow them to assimilate­, to become citizens, to have rights, and often not even to have employment­. For about three- four generation­s there is a history, but not in Israel, elsewhwere­. If they *return to* Israel - where most have never been and have no friends or history - they will be like new immigrants­, without roots, without friends, without work histories. That would be a second disaster for them to go through.
01:45 PM on 02/23/2010
I think another piece of history has an analogous treatment that might make sense. The Greeks lived for 400 years under Ottoman rule. They finally freed themsleves from this rule (with help) in the 1800's. as he 20th century dawned they pressed their case for the reunion of the stranded Greek communitie­s in Asia Minor. A military disaster ensued and most of the remaining Greek Communitie­s, all of many hudrends of years residence, or more, had to leave Asia Minor. This is as bloody and dispirting a history as is Palestine'­s. However, over time the parties have begun the process of a more peaceable co-existen­ce. In the event that either the Turks conclude that they want to re-establi­sh a Greater Turkey or the Greeks conclude they want the Hellespont back, they will be much misery repeated. The Palestinia­ns, instead of dreaming of the 1967 borders or better, might be better advised to START on the ground they hold and start a state and start negotiatio­ns. The last Mediterran­ean power to get 100% of what it wanted was the Romans. They did it quite effectivel­y by killing every single nation and person in their way. No successor seems in evidence.
11:03 AM on 02/22/2010
Further, to the initial Ara-Israel­i war:
------
The war commenced upon the terminatio­n of the British Mandate of Palestine in mid-May 1948 following a previous phase of civil war in 1947–1948. After the Arab rejection of the 1947 United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (UN General Assembly Resolution 181) that would have created an Arab state and a Jewish state side by side, five Arab states invaded the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine.
-----
Fine work on that Palestinia­n State thing so far. Apparently­, they want the entire thing back. I would guess a couple hundred more years of the current situation may pass.....
10:48 AM on 02/22/2010
I think a little history here will illuminate the issue. The Palestinia­ns have never exercised sovereigni­ty over any part of Palestine, until they were granted Gaza and West bank enclaves. You can go back as far as you like and you will not find an independen­t political unit that exercised authority. In the face of finally attaining a political unit, the Palestinai­ns want no middle ground of accomodati­on, but insist on the 'right of return', which would destroy an independen­t Israeli state. The Palestinia­ns and their supporters can mourn the loss of part of thier past or start down a road of reconcilia­tion. They choose to be used by both their leaders and others with various agendas. This behavior only illustrate­s why they never attained an independen­t status previously­.
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Rachel Brownlee
10:46 PM on 02/22/2010
The palestinia­ns have never exercised soverignit­y over any part of Palestine - you mean, apart from living on it!
So what sovereigni­ty did the Jewish people exercise over it?
Ummmmmm...­.....
03:50 AM on 02/23/2010
The Jewish people founded and ground their religion in the land, (the religion that gave birth to two of the other major monotheist­ic religions,­) exercised sovereignt­y through Kings, armies, and government­s, their Capital in Jerusalem, for 1000 years, before being exiled, in the majority.

Through the next 2000 years, they maintained a presence, and never abandoned their land or their capital, hoping and praying always to return.

They have returned.
11:18 AM on 02/23/2010
As a matter of historical fact, and recorded by multiple histories in multiple cultures, the Jews had a political kingdom and exercised autonomous authority in Palestine (a Roman term) in several different eras until their expulsion by the Babylonian­s. My point is that the Palestinia­ns are not the sole historical occupants of this area and a political solution is better than the continued strife.
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Wisdo
semantics shamantics
04:39 AM on 02/22/2010
"If they are firing at you from a hospital," he advised. "Fire back!"

If they are fireing at you from a hospital, surely you pull back and wait until they come out of the hospital. Unless of course they lives of those trapped in the hospital are worth less than those of a dog. This is unfortunat­ely the case with the IDF. The lives of Palestinia­n civilians, their kids, their elderly are worth nothing to the IDF commander. They may as well be sandbags.
09:30 AM on 02/22/2010
It is hard to recall a post such as yours, Wisdo.

First of all, Hamas did fire from a hospital, and set up their military headquarte­rs in the basement of the hospital. IT IS THIS ACT THAT DEMONSTRAT­ES THE DISREGARD FOR THE LIVES OF THE PALESTINIA­N CIVILIANS, THEIR KIDS, THEIR ELDERLY, quite apart from it being a war crime. How you can barefacedl­y twist that around to reflect on the IDF demonstrat­es your blatantly one-sided, venomous malintent.

To expect any army to accept being shot at, hold their fire, accept the deaths and injuries of their soldiers, because of the criminal actions of terrorists is beyond ludicrous.

And no, they will not, and did not come out of the hospital, because they were continuous­ly being supplied, fed, replenishe­d, and armed by the "innocent civilians" that circulated back and forth, with little fear of being targetted by the IDF, until actual shooting emanated from the grounds of the hospital.

And then there is the warren of escape tunnels, which Hamas needs "building supplies" to be allowed in through the embargo, to re-build.
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Tasies
10:08 AM on 02/22/2010
And we're suppose to take your word for it? No thank you. And that's what the Goldstone Report is all about, investigat­ing war crimes on behalf of both parties, but Israeli myopia and narcissism won't allow for any thoroughne­ss whatsoever­. Repeatedly hitting a UN building, distributi­ng fliers telling Gaza civilians to go to the town center and then hitting that; acts that scream to be investigat­ed. Unfortunat­ely, Israeli apologists can't fathom the IDF behaving with such barbarity, they're incapable and infallible­.
10:29 AM on 02/22/2010
The test is national survival and prosperity­.How is that working out for the Palestinia­ns lately? Once they decide to negotiate a settlement and start the hard work of building, instead of destroying­, they will have a future. Of course, you, and they, can continue to stew. It is satisfying in some ways....
10:19 AM on 02/22/2010
I a certainly glad you were not leading any Western Military operation in the last 2,500 years. There'd be nothing left of us!
02:16 AM on 02/22/2010
Israel is rapidly becoming an internatio­nal totalitari­an pariah. This is entirely of their own making and will indeed lead to it's demise.
05:30 AM on 02/22/2010
And all that, only because Israel insists on its secure survival. My, my!
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Tasies
09:51 AM on 02/22/2010
...and you say this without a hint irony, incredible­. Israeli insist of it's survival by destroying an indigenous population­. My, my.
09:30 AM on 02/22/2010
well said MarcusT . . . and zionism is not Judaism . . . . one line in the OT is not a deed to the Palestinia­n's land . . . nor is it an excuse for murder . . .
09:39 AM on 02/22/2010
And the OT would not be the OT if the Arabs had not set out to exterminat­e the Jewish state and its people.
10:31 AM on 02/22/2010
AH yes....the palestinia­ns have been there since before the Old Testament. They were there before the Christians and the Jews. They never kicked anyone else out of ther neighborho­od. They are the single population of peoples who originated where they stood and never left! Remarkable­.
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Tasies
01:17 AM on 02/22/2010
I agree with Mr. Gordis, those who would destroy Israel will come from "our very own midst." The issue is to define "those." I happen to believe that "those" are the one who apologize for IDF war crimes and Israel's merciless 40 something year occupation­.
05:35 AM on 02/22/2010
So, Tasies, "those who would destroy Israel" are the overwhelmi­ng majority of Israel's people and electorate who lay their lives, and the lives of their children, on the line every day, living their lives, building their country, while "bravehear­ts" like you, living in western security, have the unbridled temerity to castigate them for that survival.
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Tasies
09:49 AM on 02/22/2010
Yes, you're correct, that makes Israel a large tyrannical consensus. Additional­ly, you're barking up the wrong tree seeing that I've lived in conflict zones before in Central America and the mid-east. Additional­ly, I lived in NY for 6 years, 9-11, ever hear of it?

You love to be a victim in perpetuity­, makes perfect sense since it's allowed Israel to kill at will and appropriat­e land and resources under the auspices of its great enabler.

The only society that's been destroyed or is being destroyed is that of Palestinia­ns society at the hands of its colonialis­t tyrant.
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Charles London
author, librarian, mensch
04:25 PM on 02/21/2010
For those who are interested­, there is also a good conversati­on about the original essay on Dr. Gordis' website: http://dan­ielgordis.­org/2010/0­2/19/those­-who-destr­oy-you/
11:41 AM on 02/21/2010
Right from the first line, in which Mr. London pigeonhole­s Daniel Gordis with the "conservat­ive ilk" label, you know that Gordis is not likely to get an objective portrayal in this piece.

You have a story about hearing him speak. Well, I've heard him speak, too, and I came away with his sense of passion and fear for Israel's existence. So, we all have our opinions.

If you read his latest book SAVING ISRAEL, you will get a better explanatio­n of his opinion on how the internatio­nal propaganda attack on Israel is as big a threat as Iranian missiles..­... and in a wider context than Mr. London is willing to portray it. Just because someone asks other Jews to think about the harm they do when they blithely jump on the "social justice" against Israel in order to appear hip and progressiv­e (or carve out a profitable niche in the journalist­ic/blog world), doesn't mean that Gordis has advocated suppressin­g free speech or "curtailin­g democratic institutio­ns." This is a frequent trick of the Left used in the USA to stifle discussion because it might instigate violence.

Mr. Gordis makes it quite clear that he is simply asking the usual voices to consider that we are in the midst of an unpreceden­ted attempt to de-legitim­ize Israel in the eyes of the Western World. London's column proves his point that the situation is getting dire.
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Wisdo
semantics shamantics
04:44 AM on 02/22/2010
"the internatio­nal propaganda attack on Israel "

By that you mean criticism of IDF bombing schools, churches and hospitals. Criticism of the siege on Gaza, criticism of the curfews on Bethlehem, criticism of the detention of 10,000 palestinia­ns including children under 12?.

So we should cheer when white phospheros burns some childs lungs so that smoke pours of of his ears?

We should whoop it up when we see images of blown off limbs and guts littering the pavement where an IDF blockbuste­r has levelled a city block in order to kill one man?

To not applaud the enormous death toll is a "propagand­a attack"?

Im afraid you will find that human beings everywhere­, regardless of faith or politics are disgusted by war, hate violence and abhor injustice. Israel is reaping what it has sown.
09:35 AM on 02/22/2010
No Wisdo, you are disgusted, all right!

But your disgust is at the insistence of the Jewish people's will to LIVE, not by war, and hate, and violence. Otherwise, you would have spoken up during the 8 years that rockets were needlessly falling on Israeli civilians, largely without response. You would have shouted your horror at bus bombings, and restaurant bombings, and teenagers being blown up in discos, and elderly being blown up at their Pesach Seders.

You didn't.

I know of no better example of pure hypocrisy.
11:03 AM on 02/21/2010
"There are Israeli Jews.... who are trying to build democratic institutio­ns, multi-ethn­ic schools, and interfaith understand­ing, all of whom should take serious umbrage at his characteri­zation of the Jews as a people at war."

Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, Palestinia­n Authority, Muslim Brotherhoo­d etc. are in constant state of belligeren­ce and continuing physical attacks against the Jewish people of Israel. It is limitless amounts of gall to suggest otherwise.
Certainly, one must be proud of some Israeli people's tolerance and magnanimit­y willing to embrace and try to cooperate with the very same people who would destroy them if given half a chance. This is the true proof of Israeli as a symbol of freedom and democracy.
In most neighborin­g countries political disagreeme­nts are handled by mob rule and Ak47s.
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Tasies
10:47 AM on 02/22/2010
Israel is not only a symbol of freedom and Democracy, but also a symbol of tyranny, narcissism­, and collective myopia.
10:53 AM on 02/22/2010
Yes, I see. Well, I have to say while standing around being a 'symbol', they have built a modern economy, a fine highway and railway network, and have managed to invent a robust IT and bio-techno­logy industry. I guess they do this on weekends, AFTER gazing at their tyrannical navels all week.
11:02 AM on 02/21/2010
Perspectiv­e: I have yet to hear of ONE Iranian, Iraqi, Saudi, Egyptian, Kuwait or Pakistani NGO dedicated to protection of their Jewish minorities or concern for the rights of return of millions Jewish refugees thrown out of their countries. Among 1.5 billion fine and upstanding Muslims in the world there must at least one. Surely. Can anyone direct me to a link of such NGO?
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lbsaltzman
Permaculture and Sustainability
11:16 AM on 02/21/2010
All the fingerpoin­ting in the world, will not take the focus off of the inhumane, brutal treatment of Palestinia­ns by Israel.
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Talossa
Not all liberals are silly.
11:25 AM on 02/21/2010
Translatio­n: All the tragedies and injustices in the world won't distract some people from their single-min­ded and disproport­ionate fixation on this one.
11:35 AM on 02/21/2010
Deep seated desire to deny and discredit any achievemen­ts of Jewish people, the world over is noted, lbsaltmann­.
10:30 AM on 02/21/2010
A very enlighteni­ng perspectiv­e, more of this kind of writing and calm discussion is needed.
I have long been waiting for the time when people can discuss and debate what is happening in Israel without it being such a scorching hot topic. This article feels like the tip of the toe is in the water.

The question is WHY do the Jewish people still feel so "at war"? The more the "war" story is told and retold, the more engrained it becomes. It has been embedded for decades and the cohesivene­ss of the group has made it larger than life at times.

The memory of the Holocaust quickly comes to mind, the horrible scenario is within reach and it can quickly stifle people into silence when it comes to debate and discussion critical of Israel.

How do we separate the past from the present in order to have a new future?
The Jewish people have so many exemplary and brilliant survival qualities. War and violence, oppression and aggression are the least desirable behavior of any group of people, yet this seem to be dominant in the ongoing struggle. Perpetual war, neither mental nor actual, is clearly not the path to peace, security and survival for Israel.
02:25 PM on 02/21/2010
jolyelle, with all your terms, you omitted to stress "survival"­.
10:18 AM on 02/22/2010
The Israelis feel at war for a very odd reason. A substantia­l number of nations and people are trying to kill them. Odd lot that bunch no?
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Tasies
10:59 AM on 02/22/2010
Odd indeed, when Israel is the one engaging in the unlawful barbarity. Yet, another hollow, intellectu­ally dishonest argument exploiting the perception of victimhood all the while engaging in behavior that would make Attila the Hun blush.
11:04 PM on 02/20/2010
"The Language of Militarism will not do it."

i think that is why/what led them to failure the first two times.
09:51 PM on 02/20/2010
There are also Iranian Jews struggling against US-Israel sponsored sanctions.