My Conversation with Jane Mayer & Philip Gourevitch

There has been significant debate about the United States' tactics in the fight against terrorism and how they have undermined America's moral authority. Recently, I spoke with two authors who have new books out on the subject. Jane Mayer is an investigative reporter for The New Yorker. Her book is called The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How the War on Terror Turned Into a War on American Ideals. Philip Gourevitch, editor of the Paris Review, co-authored the book Standard Operating Procedure. Here is a part of my conversation with each of them.

Comments

[blueshield]

Mr. Rose, thanks, as always, but especially this topic.

I'd seen the broadcast and tonight I'm contrasting it with the performance in Orange County by the presumptive heir to the B.ush regime, and replaying Pat Buchanan's comment that Mc.Cain, if elected "will make Che.ney look like Ghandi".

I know it's a tired cliche, but one does appreciate things - like the Constitution, American civil liberties, and our aspiration to moral standards and positive global influence - when they're going away. The "war on terror" has always been a Rorschach test, hasn't it - separating those in need of the protection of heavy handed power concentrated in the executive office, from those willing to accept risks and losses if it meant preserving the brilliant imperfection of democracy and the American experiment.

How have we have come to the point where self-styled "conservatives" routinely find the Constitution and rule of law too confining, and the so-called "liberals" are strident in their defense?

Osa.ma bin La.den must surely be smiling at his overwhelming success.

[NoSillyName]

I just watched the show on PBS a few nights ago. Great show. Scary sh*t. Love CR's in-depth interviews.

[TuFu]

I'll be brief, as this topic makes me want to retch. The vomit of this Bush/Cheney outrage has not only destroyed America's credibility, moral standing, and justice system it has left in tatters our moral resistance to genocide, massacres, political imprisonment systems. And it has made the nerocons lapdogs for any justicifcation for empire: torture, tyranny, hollow nerocon words like "freedom" and "democracy" for when they now come from American lips one thinks: what crime are they covering up now.
Seven generations of Americans to build a civilization worth living in, 7 years to blow it to smithereens by a preening, arrogant, morally vacuous President/Vice. Corruption incarnate. It will take another seven generations to recover. If we ever can for the ideology has spread & corrupted the land and spews daily from the nerocon radio & TV stations.
A coup by the SCOTUS, Bush killed the very foundations on constitutional governement. Everyone just wants to turn the page and get on with it in good American fashion. Not this time. We have no moral standing in the world and rightly so.

[kjdwyer]

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. Very well said.

I've been living abroad for four years now and get all of my news from international news sources (the American MSM is not fit to line a bird cage) and this Post. I can tell you that the United States has never been held so low in world opinon.

I remember an interview of Colin Powell back when he was SOS when he was questioned about our actions in Chile in the early '70s. (Regarding the Chilean adventure, the Freedom of Information Act had kicked in around 2003 and many of the "Pinochet Files" became de-classified.) He referred to it as a "dark period" in American foreign policy and one that we would never re-visit. That we've "turned a page" and have "learned from our mistakes." Rice used almost identical language regarding this.

Then look what this administration did. It was as if they went to the Chilean "playbook" (this time overtly instead of covertly) and not only repeated similar "mistakes," they compounded them 100-fold.

We never seem to learn, and while Americans remain blissfully ignorant of the history of American atrocities going all the way back to Hawaii, the world is keeping score. While the actions of this adminstration are more overt, this kind of behavior has been going on now for over 100 years. Read "Overthrow" by Stephen Kinzer.

[HearNoWeasel]

Mr. Rose, thanks for posting. I'll check out the full interview.

It seems that investigative reporters have moved to writing books rather than producing feature stories for papers and other media. I suppose it's a natural response to being laid off, for one, but also to the sound-bite culture in news that doesn't allow more complex reporting. Plus, of course, most TV news casts also require an opposing point of view so they can turn the story into a debate show. I'm so sick of these "debates."

The loser is the audience that should be informed by those media outlets. Only a small percentage of people (including congresspeople) read full-length books to get information. So the only way to reach a larger audience is to present interviews ABOUT the story rather than the story. And that always smacks of promotion rather than simple information. Do TV stations get paid for these interviews by the publishing houses?

Still, it's better than no reporting at all.