Good. The Democratic Party needs to put Clinton's delusional and bully support of this issue to an end. MI residents... come to the party! Join with those who both supported and played by the rules... you can be there! Just don't expect to be seated by the Clinton Party's delusional and irrational demands. It's not going to happen.
We want you there... but not if you expect favoritism and special consideration. That's what got you into trouble in the first place. This subject has been discussed enough.. to the point that you know the objections that most ALL other Democrats have made. You are NOT that special... but you are special enough to be invited to the party. Accept the invitation by all of us who played by the rules.
Clinton lost. It does not benefit to deny that reality. Come to the party. Accept the Democratic Party's terms. See you there!
MI Dems, Clinton SuperD Beg to Differ on Delegates
Both a Hillary Clinton superdelegate on the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee (R&BC) and a spokesperson for the Michigan Democratic Party seem to contradict the Clinton campaign stance on the seating of the Michigan delegation, in interviews given earlier this week.
Liz Kerr, the Communications Director for the Michigan Democratic Party re-emphasized what State Chairman Mark Brewer has been saying all along. "We want full participation for the Michigan delegation, and we'd prefer to settle this sooner, rather than later." But above all, the MI Dems stress, "both camps must agree" to any solution presented for ratification to the R&BC on May 31. Brewer is a member of R&BC, but not eligible to vote on issues regarding his own state.
Mame Reiley of Virginia is also a member of the R&BC and a long-declared superdelegate for Hillary Clinton. She says she will keep an open mind and try to be fair to all parties involved on May 31. She feels that both states have paid a price by not hosting full-out primary campaigns, which would have brought considerable revenue to them. In Florida, she is inclined to seat the delegation as is, due to the full slate of candidates there. "But," she says, "this is a whole different ballgame with Michigan." Her decision there, Reiley said, "might make Hillary not happy with me."
Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to
When talking about disenfranchising the voters of Michigan and Florida, analysts rarely mentioned all the people who stayed home—in both Michigan and Florida—because of the continual news coverage that their votes would not count. Those people will be disenfranchised if the primaries are counted as legitimate.
What should have happened is a re-vote. But since the states refused to pay for that process, we're stuck with a bad situation in both states. I don't see the legitimacy of seating FL, as is, any more than I see the legitimacy of seating MI, as is.
I hope a compromised can be worked out. And let's hope this kind of thing doesn't happen again any time soon.
For those who think that if Obama loses because of what Hillary and Bill have done to hurt his chances in November, better think again. She could run if she wants in 2012, but she will lose without the AA support. Keep threatening to vote for McCain and it will come back to haunt you in 2012, 2016, and 2020. The AA vote will no longer be taken for granted by either party again. We have voted enmasse for the Dem party for years. Not anymore! She nor any other person will win anything. We are a VERY forgiving people, but don't poop on us and tell us it's good for us. WE KNOW BETTER! If in anyway it's perceived that they didn't campaign for him and help him as much as they can, get ready for Rethuglicans to win the next several until there is a uniting between working class blacks and whites. He,he,he! Don't say I didn't warn you.
I agree! Let me start by saying that I loved the Clintons - sick, sin, and all their crap! Well, that was until the day HRC referred to hard working American people being white people. Until that moment, she would have had my vote if she became the nominee. IMHO, what she said and insinuated was beyond unforgivable!
So let her hardworking American people, white people vote for her. The AA vote is clearly insignificant and since we are not hardworking clearly it would be too much of an effort to get to the polling station!
So to all the HRC supporters who are clearly not affected by this crap " good luck!
If there was any chance that the DNC was going to count the election, then they should have allowed the candidates to campaign there. To rule that the election would not count, then turn around and count it is so unfair to anybody who did not have Clinton's 15 year name in the party. It also does not include the voters who stayed home because they were told by the DNC it didn't count.
It seems to be a good arguing point for a national election committee to ensure this cannot and will not happen again. I say get rid of the old election ways and reform the primary season to fit with the diverse population of the entire country. Start the season with a number of small states with a big kick-off election night. The states electing this night should be from different parts of the country, North and South, East, West and central, urban and rural and everything in between. But they should also be states which have relatively small numbers of delegates each. No one state at the beginning of the election process should have such a great influence over who will be on the ballot in future state primary elections. If we save the largest states for later in the season we reserve the most campaign coverage for the most people. It just doesn't make sense right now that campaigns spend months upon months in states like Iowa and New Hampshire but only really get a week or two to concentrate on California and New York, the two most populous states.
So the decision in the end will either be to punish the candidates who were following the rules of the DNC and did not campaign in these states or even, for some, have their names on the ballots, or we will punish the voters of these states by telling them that they don't count. Seems to me like there is one party here that is going to be getting away scott free in either case: the State Party Committee that decided to hold the primaries early and in effect disenfranchise their own voters. No one is talking about what to do about preventing this from occurring again next election season.
why is it that lawmakers are law breakers??? why even bother to have rules, if you are going to bend them and shape them according to the whims are a whiner like Hillary? This super delegate from VA is going on record to state that she will be biased. Sheesh. Find nonbiased people to decide from the pool of non committed delegates.
If we begin the slide into not following the rules, there will never again be rules to follow. Every race, every election will be open to debate and the outcomes will be contested and litigated. This is a dangerous precedent for democracy and for the Democratic party.
If Florida and Michigan thinks Hillary would care about them if the election of delegates had been done the right way they are crazy. This only thing this lady care about is trying to steal the nomination. If she keep on messing around she want be able to be elected dog catcher.
FL & MI are history. FL & MI broke the rules of the party, and Hillary, Obama and the rest of the candidates agreed to punish them for violating the rules.
All this back and forth willing and dealing by some of the superdelegates is to help Hillary. Superdelegates are not there to change the rules of the party back and forth in order to help a candidate. Superdelegates are there to make the laws and to see that everyone follows it. This back door politics which is a way of paying back favors owed has to stop.
This a democracy not some kind of a ruling party!
The only voter that Hillary cares about is herself. She did not care about those Mi/Fl voters until she knew that she needed them to win. We need to stop this madness. Split the votes and delegates in Fl and Mi and forget about it. This is the only fair thing to do. The fact that she believes that she should be handed votes which do not relect a reality says a lot about her and that it is all about winning to her, no matter how it appears. Who cares what we think?
All the candidates agreed on these rules at the beginning of the race. Clinton went under the radar to try to win support for herself. Even if it was not the fault of the Democrats in Fla, the rules were broken. People should consider that when voting in their state elections and throw out the idiots who allowed it to happen, but rules are rules. The states new what would happen. At this point, Obama could probably be magnanimus and say go ahead and count them, but what will happen in 2010? We will be holding Thanksgiving primaries! There has to be a point when states are expected to make a choice - do your primaries on this day or they will not be counted. How long has it been since a Democrat really won in those states?
Why do I get a whiff of CARL ROVE being behind this un-uniformed type of voting. He knew FL was a McCain state - I wouldn't be surprised if he was behind this scenario. Why can't the DNC pay for a re-do of the election?
The Democratic National Committee should not pay for a redo. The state Democratic parties willingly and intentionally defied the rules, therefore they should pay for reelections if they want them. Even that would not be fair, because the results of the entire national race are pretty much known now. Essentially they wanted to be first to cast their votes, and last to cast their votes also. How is that not fair?
At least making the states pay for their own redo constitutes some form of punishment.
There is a video on YouTube of the Florida committee making the decision to hold the primary early in defiance of the DNC. The speaker was smirking, sarcastic, mocking. Obviously Florida thought it was a great big joke. Florida deserves no consideration at all.
Why does Florida mess up our elections, every time?
Al in favor of giving Florida to Cuba and giving Texass back to Mexico raise your hand.
SPLIT THE DELEGATES IN MICHIGAN AND GIVE HILLARY A 55% to OBAMA 45% AND THEN GIVE EACH DELEGATE 1/2 VOTE AS A PENALTY. ENOUGH SAID!
Good thinking. I like that proposal!
And your plan for Florida?
Each delegate gets half a vote. Simple, effective, and doesn't really affect the outcome.
Also, Howard Dean, Karen Thurman, and whatever bonehead sponsored the bill, all get a pie to the face.
Let's put this puppy to rest. Have Obama and Hillary submit their plans for seating FL & MI to the DNC to be decide at their meeting at the end of May. The agreement between the candidates is that the decision between the two plans will be binding, in other words its binding arbitration. Let's get something concrete and be done with it. p
Are you f***ing kidding?!!! Obama plays by the rules and doesn't campaign in FL, and is not even on the ballot in MI, and Clinton wants the results to count?!!! The very idea proves that she has no sense of fair play, and doesn't deserve any office, much less the nomination. I once thought I could vote for her should she be the candidate... now I'm so disgusted I would just stay home. The hell with her.
wood,
Obama was the only one advertizing in FL. Stop smoking whatever yiou are, sober up and you might remember
And Obama will lose FL by 15 to McCain
Obama had a note from the DNC for those ads.
WHOA! Get your facts straight. Hillary actually CAMPAIGNED in Florida the night before the primary.
I believe the ads were run in Georgia, but spilled into Florida. Of course we can concede Florida to the republicans now if you want. You only need a majority in November.
you will also have to concede Michigan, Missouri, and Ohio where McCain leads Obama too.... Oh yeah, the obamaphiles can always rely on the grand democratic states he won in caucuses: Idaho/Utah/Wyoming and in primaries: Kansas: oops I forgot they are solidly red republican as are Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia the other states Obama "won". Pyrrhic victories for Barry.... "no he won't"
And Clinton will win FL by 15 over McCain1 Yeah, right.
I think the fact that she only got 55% of the vote in Michigan, when the only other choice was "undecided", speaks volumes! She certainly wouldn't have gotten 55% if she was running against SOMEONE...though I'm sure that in here eyes, that's fair. All she's doing is proving that she doesn't care about the voters, only in getting what she wants at any cost. Unfortunately, all any of this is doing is hurting the Democrats' chance of winning this year. And if they do lose, she'll be out there claiming it was because they nominated Obama, and that if they had nominated her, SHE would have won. I believe more every day that she is absolutely willing to tear down the party if she can't get what SHE wants.
She cares about the country as a whole - and not some bungling witchcraft out of the usual bungling FL when it comes to Presidential elections. Haven't we had enough in 2000 and 2004?!
This time, we're adding MI to the chaos. (RUSH LIMBAUGH's challenge is coming true!)
BE SMART DEMOCRATS!
Maybe the only thing to do is elect a new DNC chairman (goodbye HOWARD DEAN) in favor of more uniformed National Presidential Primaries.......where the states are given the rules to play by BEFORE a primary is held. Holding elections for a Presidential candidate shouldn't be in the states' hands. It's too precarious.
Um. . . the states WERE given the rules before the primaries, and Fl/MI were warned they would lose their delegations for violating those rules BEFORE the primaries, and defied the rules anyway. And Howard Dean has done more to strengthen the party nationwide than any chairman in a generation.
As for the states being stripped of authority over their elections, you might run into a little trouble with something called the US Constitution. Primaries are not true elections anyway. The political parties are private organizations and can select their nominees any way they wish. They could eliminate primaries altogether if they wished and just select a nominee in a smoky back room somewhere. Which is pretty much what Hillary would love to happen anyway. Those pesky little voters. . .
I think she does care about the country as a whole, I just don't believe that she cares about the voters opinion (majority of them) who voterd for Obama. I think she's SO convinced that she is the best candidate that she's willing to rip the party apart and tear down Obama in an effort to prove it. This is about OUR votes and our country, and whether she thinks she is the better candidate or not, Obama has more delegates, more votes, more states, etc. Unless they discover that Obama is an axe murderer and COMPLETELY UNELECTABLE the majority of elected delegates should be the deciding factor in who gets the nomination. Whether or not she is a slightly more "electable" or no is irrelevant. Unless he's unelectable, the country should decide who to nominate and who they want to represent them, and she is fighting to overturn OUR decision, which is basically saying that she doesn't think we know what we're doing, so superdelegates should overule our votes. She may care about the best interests of the country, but her conviction that only SHE can get the job done (win the election) is narcisistic and she's trying to tell us she knows better than we do who the candidate should be and the superdelgates should listen to her, not us.
There is also a video on YouTube of Hillary emphatically declaring the elections in FL and MI would not count, she agreed with the DNC before the election.
She cares about the country as a whole? She didn't care about those voters, then! And she doesn't care at all about the Democratic party or she would see that lack of discipline is the reason they keep getting elections stolen, and more, not less, discipline is required.
Clinton?
Is she still in the race?
She will be in the race after November and for the 8 years Obama is president. She won't go away! She's Obama's groundhog day nightmare.
She is a disturbed woman with serious problems. I sincerely feel sorry for her.
Gma,
typical Obama crackpot head.
Hillary will be pres in 2012. Obama will have his clock cleaned in Nov
Most Americans tend to vote for true patriots like McCain
Would the super delegates from michigan supporting Hillary, pls. wake up!!!! She does not care about you guys seated or not. If that is her objective she should have accepted the proposal of 69/59. Well, the superD should play hardball and said to her if she did not agreed, you guys will pull out your support. If you cannot do that, your voters deserved not being seated.
Even the SuperD's of FL and MI don't count if their respective state delegations are not seated. Therefore those SuperD's have no bargaining power to compel Hillary to do anything.
No kidding. If I were a MI super delegate I would be putting my support with Obama who agreed with the plan even though Hillary ended up with 10 more delegates. When pandering to NH she says she didn't remove her name from the ballot because everyone knew the delegates wouldn't be seated. Now MI comes up with a plan that is more than fair when considering the situation. Obama agrees, but Hillary still wants the vote to stand (remember a federal court said the primary was unconstitutional). MI came up with a more than fair proposal to solve this mess and it's not good enough for Hillary. I don't even know how she looks at herself in the mirror each morning.
THE DNC NEEDS TO BEND ITS RULES. WE NEED ALL FIFTY STATES INCLUDED IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL YEAR.
BEND THOSE RULES, HOWARD DEAN. OBAMA, TOO, WILL COME OUT WITH MORE DELEGATES - - - BUT IT WILL BE DONE DEMOCRATICALLY!
THINK OF WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD IS THINKING OF OUR ELECTION SYSTEM...............2000.....2004.....AND NOW 2008.
Posted May 8, 2008 | 05:36 PM (EST)