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Chris Stedman

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'Evangelical Atheists:' Pushing For What?

Posted: 10/18/10 08:31 AM ET

Last Friday, a New York Times headline declared: "Atheists Debate How Pushy to Be." This ongoing debate among atheists -- "Just how much should we confront the religious?" -- is nowhere near resolution.

Last year when I visited Minnesota to spend the winter holidays with my family, I spoke with a Christian friend about my budding efforts as an atheist promoting religious tolerance and interfaith work. She too was excited about the idea of bringing people together around shared values in spite of religious differences, but near the end of our conversation she asked me a pointed question: "I'm a little confused. Isn't part of being an atheist trying to talk people out of their faith?"

She's not the first to ask me that. In fact, it's one of the questions I get most often. It seems that because many vocal atheists cite "the end of faith" as their goal, atheism is often perceived as being actively anti-religious to the point of being almost evangelical. Reza Aslan lays the case out well:

There is, as has often been noted, something peculiarly evangelistic about what has been termed the new atheist movement ... It is no exaggeration to describe the movement popularized by the likes of Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens as a new and particularly zealous form of fundamentalism -- an atheist fundamentalism. The parallels with religious fundamentalism are obvious and startling: the conviction that they are in sole possession of truth (scientific or otherwise), the troubling lack of tolerance for the views of their critics (Dawkins has compared creationists to Holocaust deniers), the insistence on a literalist reading of scripture (more literalist, in fact, than one finds among most religious fundamentalists), the simplistic reductionism of the religious phenomenon, and, perhaps most bizarrely, their overwhelming sense of siege: the belief that they have been oppressed and marginalized by Western societies and are just not going to take it anymore.

I'm not sure I'm in full agreement with Aslan. In my first piece for Huffington Post Religion, I noted the undeniable reality that atheists do in fact face discrimination in America. But his critique of the zealous nature of "new atheism" is difficult to deny. When a large and vocal number of atheists say that their number one goal is convincing people to abandon their faith, it comes as no surprise that our community is construed as extreme and aggressive.

This is a major problem for the nonreligious because it limits our reach. In the words of Carl Sagan: "The chief deficiency I see in the skeptical movement is its polarization: Us vs. Them -- the sense that we have a monopoly on the truth; that those other people who believe in all these stupid doctrines are morons; that if you're sensible, you'll listen to us; and if not, to hell with you. This is nonconstructive. It does not get our message across. It condemns us to permanent minority status."

The reason I do interfaith work is because I want to erode this kind of "Us vs. Them" thinking. The day before the New York Times raised the issue, I spoke to the Secular Student Alliance at Yale University about my work and addressed the question of whether the nonreligious should engage in interfaith work. Inevitably, our group conversation turned to the subject of "evangelical atheism" and whether this was an appropriate description of tactics applied by "new atheists."

"I may lose all of my credibility for saying this," I said with a chuckle, "but I have zero interest in talking people out of their religious beliefs. The only religious beliefs I take issue with are ones that infringe on individual freedoms -- for example, when someone's religious belief informs their conviction that I, as a queer person, should not be free to marry whoever I choose. But their belief in God, when it does not contribute to actions that inhibit my liberty, is of no concern to me."

All the more, I added, I actually celebrate religious beliefs that motivate people to engage in social justice work. Historical figures like the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Mahatma Gandhi, Thich Nhat Hanh, Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel and Monsignor Oscar Romero cited their faith as the primary impetus for their social justice work and launched their efforts through interfaith coalitions. Because of their efforts and the efforts of others like them, I actually believe that the world would suffer a serious loss if religion disappeared.

To my delight, many students in the room expressed their agreement.

The nonreligious have gained a lot of traction due to the voices of "new atheism," but I believe that we are at a crossroads: We have come to a point where we can continue to express our legitimate frustrations in a way that alienates the religious, or we can look inward to find a comfort in our own convictions that will enable us to begin the courageous and important work of looking outward to respectfully engage with others.

I am encouraged by a new generation of humanists, atheists, agnostics, skeptics, freethinkers and others who wish to operate in a way that is constructive instead of deconstructive. We are led by people like Lucy Gubbins, an atheist who co-founded the University of Oregon's Alliance of Happy Atheists, who is working to both create secular community and identify opportunities for collaboration with the religious. Gubbins and those like her are more concerned with these positive efforts than with striving to de-convert the religious. And our numbers are growing every day - several Yale students approached me after our discussion to ask how they could get involved in interfaith work.

A few days before my talk at Yale, I met with students from Tufts University's Freethought Society, which has been actively working to get a Humanist Chaplain for several years now. Inside Higher Ed wrote an article on their efforts last year that highlighted the need for nonreligious communities. In the article, Greg Epstein, the Humanist Chaplain at Harvard University, said, "A lot of students come to campus knowing they're not religious, but also not knowing what they do believe. [Humanist communities can] help them learn more about the positive aspects of their identity, not just what they don't believe in."

It's just a hypothesis, but I wonder if fewer nonreligious people would actively try to dismantle religious communities if we had a more coherent community of our own. Perhaps if we spend less energy negatively "evangelizing," we'll find ourselves well positioned to reach out in ways that build bridges instead of tearing them down.

"How pushy should we be, then?" We're asking the wrong question. Instead, let's ask ourselves: What are we pushing for?

Is our top priority trying to do away with religion altogether, or is it trying to make the world a better place? If it is the latter, then we must change our approach, reach out to religious liberals and moderates and work together.

 

Follow Chris Stedman on Twitter: www.twitter.com/ChrisDStedman

Last Friday, a New York Times headline declared: "Atheists Debate How Pushy to Be." This ongoing debate among atheists -- "Just how much should we confront the religious?" -- is nowhere near resolutio...
Last Friday, a New York Times headline declared: "Atheists Debate How Pushy to Be." This ongoing debate among atheists -- "Just how much should we confront the religious?" -- is nowhere near resolutio...
 
 
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02:48 PM on 11/03/2010
To put a fine point on it atheists the world over owe the 'new atheists' a great debt for the courage, clarity of intellect and legitimacy they have shown in breaking the veritable public silence. That many in the religious community have reacted with animosity and fear at the boldness of their arguments is a testament to their strength. It is not surprising that religious leaders confronted with what they perceive as a threat sow disinformation among their flock about atheism and atheists. To tar us with the responsibility for that suggests that there is something we can do about it. The more reasonable and accepting we are, the more those most threatened will attempt to demonize us. Unlike other faith groups when they dialog interfaith they generally avoid discussing theology, but every believer wants to know why we don't believe in god.
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02:35 PM on 11/03/2010
"I may lose all of my credibility for saying this," I said with a chuckle, "but I have zero interest in talking people out of their religious beliefs."

Lose all credibility, with whom? That would describe most atheists. Even the 'new atheists' when they're not writing books, or debating religion on stage for money. People pay them for those views. They are not unsolicited.
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02:29 PM on 11/03/2010
"When a large and vocal number of atheists say that their number one goal is convincing people to abandon their faith, it comes as no surprise that our community is construed as extreme and aggressive."

This is bizarro world. None of the "New Atheists" ever stated that eradicating belief was their number one goal (though some like Sam Harris may wish for it). These were academics whose number one goal was 'education'. Atheists were criticized for not believing in God for so many specious reasons it practically begged for some academics to back it up or shut up. This elevated the most persuasive of them to prominence because A) believers now had solid targets to debate and B) there were a lot of people who felt that way, but could not verbalize it. There is no way to discuss atheism with a believer without appearing evangelical, other than not to discuss it at all. Which is pretty much what we've always done. How can you show respect for a belief while at the same time defending your choice to not believe it. It's your kind of faith-centric worldview that marginalizes atheists and falsely equates them with fundamentalists.
04:39 PM on 10/29/2010
Sorry man, I'm an atheist and I can't agree with this. It's kind of like the Nazis and the Jews trying to come to some sort of reconciliation. It ain't gonna happen, because their fundamental natures oppose everything that the other promotes.
07:10 PM on 10/27/2010
It is wrong to consider Dawkins et al. as fundamentalists because they are antagonistic towards religions and state their arguments and opposition. The theistically religious have somewhat toned down their antagonism towards one another, because, I think, that they are aware, even if only dimly, that none of them is in a better position epistemologically than any other. On the other hand, atheists are in a better position epistemologically than any of the theistic religions, and it is worthwhile for the atheists to push their point. Truth should, after all, trump falsehood.
04:21 PM on 10/24/2010
I appreciate this, as far as it goes. Being a freethinking non-theist I have no need to quote verses from Dawkins or Hitchens. As a former evangelical and ex-Presbyterian Minister I know how sick and sad sectarianism can be. I also know from experience how much good can be done through interfaith cooperation (that includes unbelievers--yes, the language is messy). As a freethinker I have worked side by side with people of many faiths to respond to homelessness, addictions, mental illness and more. There are small numbers who want to work collaboratively. It just takes wise leadership to encourage folks to put their sacred texts (faith and no faith) on the shelf and get to work.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
syntax facit saltum
We do not live in a 2 story universe
08:25 PM on 10/24/2010
What is the difference between being a non-theist and an atheist?
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jpvt
empty micro-bio means a nice person lives here
06:31 PM on 10/25/2010
Seriously, Naturechaplain, I have the same question.
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
08:40 PM on 10/25/2010
Here's my opinion just cuz I can.

Seems atheist has taken on such a negative meaning in popular discourse, more Anti than A, including anti-spiritual, etc; Sooo, a lot of people are using Non-theist which could be spiritual but not religious or spiritual without the supernatural stuff, yada, yada, yada...
02:59 PM on 10/24/2010
I disagree with you regarding the term "evangelical" atheists. Your definition misses the largest point regarding individuals that are highly vocal about their lack of belief. In our country, we are supposed to have separation of religion and government by laws. Certainly, America is the best and first dividing such. The problem is this works in some areas, but not in others. In many cases, religious views often deeply rooted in both belief and ignorance have harmed public-funded education, environmental protection and global climate change lack of policies. Americans are sadly ignorant regarding sciences. Understanding how science works, evolution, global climate change, is a catastrophy. Religious have hurt women's right over their bodies and prevent loving adults the freedom to marry. These religious are causing government policy and laws that hurt or restrict the rights of other Americans. Religious views have caused particular people in government to make poor and morally bankrupt decisions for war and "fund" friendly religions.

It isn't evangelical to protest loudly the influence and control by those that are religious of our government policies and laws. It isn't evangelical to protest loudly in our public commons with free speech. In a country that provides more rights to those that are part of religions, those that are not, must speak out. That the American tax code supports religions (no matter what they are) is having all citizens pay for this. This is not evangelical to protest, but an act of pure American citizenry.
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10:04 AM on 10/24/2010
as an atheist my issue with believers is not that they believe in a superior being , my issue is that they believe that some book can answer all the mysteries of the universe and is the "word" of god. if god want to speak to mankind , he doesnt need a book.
Books are written by men.
he could have created the tv 2000 years ago and speak his word on tv ... of course that is why it doesnt make sense. an all powerfull god that can create the whole universe yet he is very silent these days...
So believers , did one of your really talked to god ? what does his voice sounds like ?
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slackbatter
a fellow small mind
07:01 PM on 10/24/2010
Just a note: that's your issue with some believers. We're not all fundamentalists.
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french queen13
my beloved is mine and I am his
03:28 AM on 12/02/2010
By "believers" do you mean followers of religions with scriptures, the "revealed" variety in particular, camus12? I ask because one can be a believer in the sense of believing in God, without being Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc etc. For example, deists would probably be called believers, but they aren't claiming divine revelation.
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colamonkey
My micro-bio contains this sentence.
09:24 AM on 10/24/2010
'Evangelical Atheists' is contradictory.

'Pushing For What' - There is no doctrine that dictates what atheists as a collective do and don't do.


I won't be an apologist for and towards systems of beliefs that disrespect and deny rights to women and gays. I will not treat bigotry with gentle hands. I will not stand for the discrimination that stems from fundamental religious convictions. In other words, I won't disrespect myself by appeasing the religious masses in order to 'not hurt someone's feelings'. They're worried about their feelings while entire groups of people are being denied equal treatment under the law because of religious beliefs.
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01:15 PM on 10/24/2010
well said thank you
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french queen13
my beloved is mine and I am his
03:34 AM on 12/02/2010
Just as long as you direct that toward the people/groups actually doing all those things (I'm with you on all those topics). Please don't do what some people do - lump everyone with faith in the same category. Plenty of religious people are also fighting against those very things.
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Retrofuturistic
see things as they really are
03:18 AM on 10/24/2010
Why would you want to insult an atheist by applying the term "evangelical" to his or her beliefs?

The term "evangelical atheist" is an oxymoron. Fundamentalism is based on blind faith and atheism is based on reason. You are comparing apples to oranges here.

If you want to condemn atheism, you cannot do it by attempting to give it the same characteristics as evangelical fundamentalism.
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taijiredlion
sic itur ad astra
12:39 PM on 10/25/2010
You use the Taoist taiji symbol as your avatar. In the Taoist system, the "mother" or ultimate root of taiji is "wuji," synonymous with the Tao itself, and symbolized by the empty circle. In the West we call it the philosophical Absolute; in both cultures, it's that which precedes and gives rise first to taiji -- the principle of complementary creative opposition embodied in the yin/yang taiji symbol -- and then to the entire manifest universe (what the Taoists call "the ten thousand things"). I assume, therefore, that in choosing the taiji symbol as your own, you also support the Taoist belief in the primacy and guiding wisdom of the Tao, even if you do not use Taoist language -- is that correct?
07:54 PM on 10/29/2010
Maybe a better term is fanatical atheism with its insensitivity towards others implied.
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BlackYowe
I am a classical- liberal woman and a Jeweler.
10:47 PM on 10/23/2010
I seem to get attacked by atheists at every turn on line these days. They enjoy mocking my faith, saying things to shock me, acting like I must be stupid or mad for believing in God. They are kidding themselves if they think that will change anyones mind with that method. I simply can no longer even take them seriously they are like robots. I have always had atheist friends because I am an artist and hang out with allot of free thinking people but this new evangelical atheist thing is really quite different than anything I have run into before and there is not talking respectfully with these people they insult me at every turn very deliberately. Being rude never converted anyone. Many of the people doing this mocking and dogging of Christians are young and they get their little speeches straight from Angry atheist websites. Few of them even know very much about religion so its a waste of time debating them.
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12:40 PM on 10/24/2010
I am an atheist, and online a lot. I understand your point, cheap insults don’t sway, but I also know that good insults can. From childhood we learn to point out what does not fit in, that is a good thing, as it shows observance, but also lays a foundation for what is acceptable and what is not. Obviously as you age this range of acceptability broadens and people are more comfortable defending things that may be out of the norm. That does not mean however that some things aren’t still free reign for ridicule. For example, you still can’t eat your snot, and if you do as an adult, you will also be openly ridiculed. I remember being insulted for the clothes I wore in high school, and although I pretended like I didn’t care, it definitely changed what I decided to wear at some point. That leads me to my final point. Remember the story THE EMPORER HAS NO CLOTHES? Everyone was too afraid of rebuke to state the obvious; that the emperor was parading around in invisible clothes that no one could say anything about except how great the emperor looked in them. You may not feel foolish now, and even then the emperor didn’t, but when you are out in front of everyone and someone says the emperor is naked, or that you believe in something just as invisible, you should heed the lesson of vanity, pride, and fear to speak that this story illustrates.
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BlackYowe
I am a classical- liberal woman and a Jeweler.
08:06 PM on 10/24/2010
I don't get shocked but Atheists are always trying to shock me. Everyone is a victim, everyone is so oppressed, My Father was a man of science as well as a Christian and many if not most of his friends were atheists and everyone got along well. Next angry atheists will try to say they are more oppressed than African Americans and Jewish people. I live in the Northeast and am in my 50s. No one much ever cared in my lifetime what your beliefs were concerning the whether there was a God or not. Half my teachers in the 70s were agnostic or non religious.
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syntax facit saltum
We do not live in a 2 story universe
08:59 PM on 10/24/2010
Insults of any kind: "good" or cheap are simply not persuasive.

How do you know your emperor is not the one without clothes? In any case, atheists are not the one revealing reality to us but I find it interesting that you imagine it that way. Feel free to believe whatever you'd like, but I agree with Blackyowe-- the hollow ridicule of the kind directed against Christians on a blog like this simply leads to a loss of willingness to dialogue. (I will answer your other post next, sorry I didn't have time to get back to it until now.)
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12:41 PM on 10/24/2010
I would also like to say I am not defending any insults thrown your way, as I don’t know enough about you that would lead me to believe you deserved them. I have thrown some cheap shots before and I will tell you why. Because when some one says something stupid and expects to be taken seriously, a cheap insult can be the best answer if one is expected. For example, when someone later in this blog states that “all roads to god lead you to god” and expects to be taken seriously, as if something insightful was just revealed, then instead of dissecting how someone can make that kind of statement in a serious discussion. It is easier to drop to that level rather than trying to bring them to yours sometimes. Im sure that doesn’t make you feel much better, because it assumes you deserved the abuse because you are dumb, and I don’t know that. In general I am glad that people are on the offensive about religion. I don’t agree with the evangelical atheism idea, as I find atheism more reactionary than exploratory. The fact that it is more common to negatively react to bad ideas is a good thing. You may not be swayed, but for the next generation, I hope that a little ridicule will sway people away from invisible beings, just like ridicule will turn any child’s faith in Santa Clause or the tooth fairy, god is no different
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BlackYowe
I am a classical- liberal woman and a Jeweler.
10:28 PM on 10/24/2010
But you are as arrogant as right wing Christian wingnuts when you take the position you are right and everyone else is wrong. That is why I can respect and have no problem with agnostics who say they just don't know. I can tell you what I believe but I won't promise you or tell you I am right or demand you agree with me. When ever some one is insulting and arrogant they loose all credibility. I don't even mind debating atheists but so often two people of faith are talking and an atheist starts mocking and being a jerk. You really need to go back and take a basic psychology class and learn some pointers if you think you will convince anyone of you position with that kind of rude behavior.
09:38 PM on 10/23/2010
If it weren't for theists there wouldn't be atheists.
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syntax facit saltum
We do not live in a 2 story universe
03:23 AM on 10/24/2010
Pretty much by definition.
03:15 PM on 10/27/2010
Incorrect. Atheists do not depend on theists for their existence. If every human on earth believed God did not exist, you would still have "atheists" and no theists.
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GeorgioSutton
08:44 PM on 10/23/2010
To the quote from Reza Aslan....Im not sure how many times people have to address this but it's really getting old. There is no such thing as "fundamental atheism". Absolutely none. The fact is, in a time when technology is moving at tremendous speed, while intellectually, humans aren't, the consequences are getter more and more. And with accessability of information about he world and the way things work there just isn't room for fundamental religous belief. Science and skepticism has embarrassed fundamental beliefs countless times. I don't see a conflict with science and spirituality but between science and fundamental spirituality is clearly no reconciling the two.
03:20 PM on 10/27/2010
"Science and skepticism has embarrassed fundamental beliefs countless times"

Beliefs cannot be embarrassed; so I suppose "countless" is strictly true (ie, nobody can count it).

Whether any particular *believer* is embarrassed is an entirely separate issue, but I suspect not as often as you would like for believers to be embarrassed.

Embarrassment happens when a person realises his or her inadequacy. As many or most believers do not consider themselves lacking, it will be difficult to make a believer embarrassed for his or her beliefs.
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12:37 PM on 10/23/2010
@ mggwa,
I don't know why this didn't go through, below, but ...

mggwa: "You see, if the only thing binding atheists was disbelief in something, or a lack of belief, it makes as much sense to imagine a whole body of people organizing around the non-existence of dragons."

If the majority of people believed in imagined dragons, and that belief was having an effect on our government, our education, and our civil rights. And, non-dragon-fearing people were being marginalized and demonized ... I'm sure that there would be "people organizing around the non-existence of dragons."
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01:39 PM on 10/24/2010
I gave the same obvious response, as anyone would to such a weak argument, but mine didnt post either, and it was squeky clean.
I was also blocked when I credited hallucenagenics with the first conception of god
03:26 PM on 10/27/2010
Interestingly -- your comment DID go through, and I answered it, so when your comment was deleted so was my answer. Many of mine have been deleted that seemed perfectly harmless.

Your response is correct and helps fine-tune what the original assertion should have been -- the union of atheists is NOT strictly speaking the non-existence of God, a thing they should be no more concerned about than unicorns. The unity is the existence of perceived threats to their liberties, which to ensure, they are perfectly willing to impose upon the liberties of believers.

The First Amendment seems particularly wise. Basically it says "hands off" the whole topic at least so far as government is concerned. This was created in the day when the things you fear simply did not exist; there were no public schools for instance.

Now we have a situation where government is increasingly meddling in private affairs and a school cannot fail to take a side, either deliberately or by negligence, in affairs not permitted for it to take sides. Either it teaches there is no God, or it teaches that there IS, in a hundred subtle ways.
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
10:42 AM on 10/23/2010
Since I've been here at HP, 5.5 years now, I've been telling people who call Sam Harris a fundie zealot atheist to actually read his book, the might soften their view. Seems he's actually a spiritual guy. Who woulda thunk it? Anyone who read his books!

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/18/atheist-sam-harris-steps-into-the-light.html
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Dan Jighter
11:50 AM on 10/23/2010
That's the thing. Most people prefer to follow the tone and general gist of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, etc. They seem "stridently" opposed to religion, therefore they are bad and wrong. Even their critics seem not to know what Dawkins and company actually argue, just that its anti-religious. How often do you see a serious rebuttal to Dawkins' 747 as opposed to the complaint that he doesn't know theology, often followed by straw men of Dawkins' views.

You are right. People should read Sam Harris, follow his arguments, understand his view, and then and only then come to conclusions and perhaps criticism of his views.
03:29 PM on 10/27/2010
"How often do you see a serious rebuttal to Dawkins' 747"

Say what? Well it will give me something to dig up I suppose.

I am not really very interested in Dawkins. A non-theist involved in a theistic argument does not seem very useful.
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04:34 PM on 10/23/2010
Posted.
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
08:33 PM on 10/25/2010
Got ya.