Is Rick Warren Beyond The Pale?

Is Rick Warren, pastor of a California mega-church and author of The Purpose Driven Life considered unacceptable in American society at large? Was Obama's invitation to Warren to speak at his inauguration akin to, in today's world, inviting a white supremacist, an anti-Semite, or a blatant misogynist to speak? To put it another way, is Rick Warren beyond the pale?

Before I attempt to answer, I have to insert a little linguistic history here. Because the use of the word "pale" in that last question is in no way related to any sort of description of color. "Pale" in this instance means "fence." The same root word gives us "palisade." Pale has been used this way since Middle English was spoken, to describe a fence of stakes erected to keep the barbarians out. "Beyond the castle walls" would be a direct equivalent. The concept was used more recently in Ireland, where the area around Dublin (which the English held) was known simply as "The Pale," which kept the "wyld Irysh" out.

Inside the pale, in other words, is civilization and polite society. Outside the pale is barbarism and savagery. So what, exactly is still allowed in the American pale of thought? That is the question.

Pretty much everything which is currently considered "'outside the pale" in American thought was, at one time, considered acceptable mainstream thought. Some things which were previously considered outside the pale have now become acceptable and are debated in polite society. And some issues skirt the lines, moving in and out of acceptability in a more tenuous fashion.

Racism, for instance, was once completely acceptable in American culture. Read any newspaper from the early nineteenth century to see such socially-acceptable racism. Great works of art (such as Huckleberry Finn) were created at the time. And the debate still rages over whether it should be banned from school libraries due to the racist language, or whether the overall themes in the novel redeem it.

What is acceptable on television is another barometer. Minstrel shows were once perfectly acceptable in film, radio, and television. Richard Pryor was called a "nigger" in a comedy sketch as late as the 1970s on Saturday Night Live (it's a hilarious sketch, actually, although filled with racist terms for both blacks and whites). Such would not be considered acceptable today, and would be rejected by network censors.

Anti-Semitism has a similar long history of moving slowly from being acceptable thought to being despised almost universally. So has misogyny.

But the most obvious example in my own lifetime has been homosexuality. Once seen as so taboo as to not be mentioned, gay people were first caricatured and then gradually became more and more acceptable as characters on both television and film. Today, gay love dares to speak its name, and has become so commonplace that Lisa Simpson (while watching a gay parade chanting "We're here! We're queer! Get used to it!") answers back: "We are used to it. You do this every year."

But being "used to it" is not the same as allowing gay marriage, at least as far as 52% of California voters were concerned. So the idea of homosexuality is both within and without the pale, although moving steadily inward. Nowhere is this more evident than the shift in the entire debate. It wasn't that long ago that the battlefield for gays was getting civil unions accepted. Now, civil unions are seen as acceptable even by many who were horrified at the concept only a few years ago. The battle has shifted to gay marriage. Civil unions are now considered inside the pale, even for many Republicans, while gay marriage is still outside the pale for many.

Which brings us to Rick Warren. And Barack Obama. The question many are attempting to answer now is whether Rick Warren is outside the pale, permanently, for his attitudes and remarks on homosexuality. "Permanently" is an interesting concept here. Can someone "repent" or "become rehabilitated" from some views, or are they forever damned for saying some things? Liberals do indeed tolerate some former offenders of this type. Black politicians who have uttered anti-Jewish rhetoric, for instance. Or ex-Klansman Senator Richard Byrd, who was one of the strongest anti-war voices in the Senate in the buildup to Iraq. On the right, the "Roe" in Roe v. Wade later became an anti-abortion spokeswoman, and was welcomed into the fold.

Now, the cases aren't equivalent, because to be considered within the pale, any offender has to repent, see the error of their ways, and denounce their previous words or actions. Warren has done none of these things, and I am not defending him here. The question I'd like to ask is: what gets you a permanent exile from the pale? If you believe that someone who says something racist or anti-gay (or anti-whatever, for that matter) can be reasoned with, and educated out of their ignorance, then you believe that just about anyone can have a change of heart. If you think the person is simply beyond hope, then any effort to change them would be a waste of time for both of you.

Which brings us to Barack Obama. Obama made a political choice by his invitation to Warren, and it remains to be seen what the outcome of that choice will be. It may be a momentary distraction, and not long remembered. It may become a major headache for him. It may even make it harder for Obama to advance any of the gay-rights agenda when he actually takes office, lest he be seen as beholden to a vocal minority. At this point, it's impossible to tell what the outcome will truly be. Perhaps Warren will be booed at the swearing-in ceremony. Perhaps he won't. Gay activists may either advance their cause, or harm their cause by such a protest -- again, it's a political decision they will have to make.

Obama attempted to explain his choice, saying (in essence) that Warren had taken a lot of heat from his most fervent supporters for inviting Obama to his church, and that Obama expected to take some heat from some of his supporters for returning the invitation to Warren. He expressed it in "reaching out" language that he has been using throughout the campaign.

But for some gay-rights supporters, this was not enough. Their argument, stripped of its emotion, is that Warren's remarks were so odious and his actions in getting Proposition 8 passed in California so unforgivable that he is simply unacceptable. Beyond the pale.

Their battle, in other words, is not with Obama or Warren, but to redefine the pale to exclude bigoted comments about gay marriage forever. That is an admirable goal in some ways, but it will be an uphill fight. Because like it or not, there are a lot of Americans who agree with Warren. Just like there were Americans who agreed with Hitler before World War II. I am not equating Warren or the anti-gay-marriage position to Nazism here, just pointing out that nowadays former Nazis aren't exactly given many opportunities to speak to the nation (the way Warren will do on January 20). Because Nazism is seen as completely and utterly beyond the pale. As are (increasingly) sexism, anti-Semitism, and misogyny.

But gay marriage isn't there yet. For various reasons, millions of Americans not only agree with Warren, but consider the concept of gay marriage itself outside their pale. Anyone who ever says nice things about gay marriage would be considered permanently irredeemable by many Republicans, for instance.

While I understand the anger from the gay-rights community over the Warren issue, I myself am waiting to see some solid results from Obama before judging him. If, for instance, Obama got rid of the "Don't ask, don't tell" (DADT) policy and allowed gays to serve openly in the military, would that put the Warren invitation in a different light? For that matter, which would be seen as worse: Obama lifting DADT after allowing Warren to speak, or Bill Clinton's approving DADT in the first place? If Congress turns over the Defense Of Marriage Act (DOMA) and Obama signs it into law, would that be considered mitigating? Obama has said personally that he is not for gay marriage (while supporting civil unions and other gay rights), so if he signed a DOMA repeal -- against his own beliefs -- would that be enough to assuage the hurt feelings over Warren?

Now, I don't know if Obama is going to do either of those two things. I'm just saying that for me (legislative) acts speak louder than (Warren's) words. If this is some grand scheme to inoculate Obama with religious Americans before actually doing something to advance gay rights, then it may be seen in a different light in the near future. If Obama doesn't come through, then the Warren fiasco truly will be indicative of Obama's intentions.

But I think it is too early to tell, personally. I noticed that a day or two after the Warren invitation was announced, a "trial balloon" was floated in Washington -- some Democrats were pushing for William White to be named as the new Secretary of the Navy. White is gay, and the post is a civilian one, meaning he would not fall under DADT. Such a move would obviously be seen as a precursor to lifting DADT altogether. But as the outrage grew over the Warren issue, White's supporters disappeared from the news. The story disappeared, and rumors started that Obama was considering an old friend in Texas for the Navy Secretary job.

Politicians always walk a thin line when it comes to pleasing their supporters. They cannot be seen as being "captive" of any "special interest," while at the same time trying to advance the agenda their supporters agree with. So Obama has painted himself into a corner, in a way. If he comes out strongly for legislation which furthers gay rights early in his administration, he is going to have to give the appearance of not "caving in" to their demands. Ironically, gay rights supporters may be making it harder for Obama to actually bring some change by their pressure. Or maybe not. Maybe Warren's invitation will be seen by the middle-of-the-road suburbanites as extending a hand to one side, while offering some gay-rights legislation to the other side. It is impossible to tell how it will all play out at this point.

The day before Barack Obama was elected, I wrote:

As an aside, I firmly believe that in his first 100 days in office (should he win tomorrow), President Obama is going to intentionally pick a fight with the hard left. He's going to seriously annoy the progressive blogosphere wing of the party with some action he either takes or doesn't take. This, I should add, is going to annoy me personally... but I bet it will only improve his general approval with America-at-large.

So we'll have to see. Will gay-rights supporters truly move the pale so it excludes anti-gay-marriage comments of the ilk Warren is known for? Will there be a backlash effect which helps Obama politically in his poll numbers? While it is easier to look at the short-term effects of this protest, I wonder about the bigger picture. If Obama truly redefines the legal pale, so that (for instance) gay spouses can file federal income taxes as "married," or can serve in the military openly, will the Warren fiasco actually wind up improving gay rights in this country?

For me, Rick Warren is beyond the pale. But I do believe that he could be convinced to change his beliefs. And I also have seen the boundary line of the pale move significantly in my lifetime when it comes to gay rights. So I believe it can be redefined so that no politician in the future would ever consider extending an invitation to anyone who thinks the way Warren does. But I don't believe that is going to happen by January 20. When Warren speaks at the Inauguration, I will be interested to see the crowd's reaction. But I will be much more interested in what Obama does to advance gay rights, once he's in office.

 

Chris Weigant blogs at: ChrisWeigant.com

 

Comments

[jhw22]

I think of it this way: Rick Warren gave a weak, uninspiring prayer BEFORE Obama's ceremonial swearing-in. Reverend Lowery gave a moving, enthusiastic and significant prayer AFTER Obama's ceremonial swearing-in. I think Reverend Lowery speaks more to our future and our current President than Rick Warren did.

Jennifer

[AbbieXHoffman]

"The question many are attempting to answer now is whether Rick Warren is outside the pale, permanently, for his attitudes and remarks on homosexuality. "

I think the question is whether Warren's COMMENTS are outside the pale. Perhaps Warren can come back inside the pale but his comments can't. His comments should be just as socially unacceptable as r*cists or sexist ones (although I argue that sexist ones are still considered okay by many).

Having said that, I don't think even Warren will make it back inside the pale for many as I don't see him moving a single inch on his stance on gay marriage. After all, that would say that the bible can't be interpreted literally and since Warren's life, career, church, $$ and very being depend on the literal interpretation of the bible--I don't see that ever changing.

Thoughtful post though.

[mommadona]

Have you noticed...it's usually the MALES that have a problem when discussing homosexuality-ness?

[dyspeptic]

Once again, the issues with Rick Warren are made out to be merely about gay marriage. Warren also insists that women must _submit_ (his word) to men, that abortion is equivalent to a Holocost, dinosaurs walked with humans and that evolution is a religious belief.

I was dearly looking forward to the inauguration as a celebration of real progress away from the Know Nothing American past. Now I am trying to figure out how to salvage it with a fund raiser for girls in science or something.

Creationism, subjugation of women, persecution of gays and criminalization of abortion are not minor social differences. It is not like Warren is just a member of the wrong country club. Only someone who isn't really invested enough in the progress of women, gays and science could see it that way.

[sherbug]

If you don't believe what Warren believes, then don't follow his beliefs. The law of the land still upholds Roe v Wade and whether or not you submit to your husband is something between you and your husband. Warren has not persecuted gays nor has he criminalized abortion. He has stated his opinion, which he is entitled to do. What do you think this is, a dictatorship where only pre-approved comments can be spoken.

Your view point might do well in Communist China, but here in America we like to think people are free to say and believe what they want. They are also free to donate, campaign and vote for whatever they want.

The Inauguration will go on with or without you and millions will enjoy. So good luck with your fundraiser.

[tbone99]

You wrote "A president cannot be seen as being "captive" of any "special interest,"

An oil company is a special interest, a business association is a special interest, associations uniting for profit is a special interest.

Gays are NOT a special interest group.. THEY ARE OUR FELLOW CITIZENS Our shared history has shown us that women, people of color ,jews, catholics are not special interests.They are our fellow citizens who we invite to the table of our bounty.! Yet if our presidents and justice system had not ruled ( even battled for their rights) to have them accepted as the full citizens they are, we would still be recognizing only white male landowners as those who deserve citizenship privilges.

There are very few people today ( even among the far right) who try to stand by denying women or blacks the full spectrum of civil rights. Deprivation of anyones civil rights is not an option in America. because we have our history to learn from . A black Constitutional lawyer should be well aware of that.

[seabelly]

Rick Warren's inaugural invitation doesn't reveal Obama's true feelings about LGBT America, his reaction to our response does. I truly thought he'd apologize when he saw how he'd devastated us. Instead, he and his team blamed us. They smacked us in the face with a 2x4 and then blamed us for yelping.

They were shocked? They were dismayed? They are liars. Theirs is an unparalleled collection of keen minds and skilled tacticians. This was no unintended slight.

Mr. Weigant was right; Obama picked a fight with us to curry favor with conservatives. If he did not intend to offend, he would have at least offered a gentle demurrer by now. Team Obama has had two weeks to make nice, but as of Sunday, David Axelrod was still blaming gay fist wavers for being disagreeable.

Well, the sell-by date has passed and I think the Obama presidency sits spoiled on the shelf. I'm not an enemy yet, but I'm not a friend anymore. Nor am I a democrat - I reregistered, and I encourage others to do so. The democrats are no more our champions than the republicans. What we have, what we gain is what we fight for ourselves. We are our own champions. Go to the inauguration or not. Remain a democrat or not. But fight always. Trust no politician. Be loud. Be angry. Be disagreeable.

[JimR]

I only agree with one thing you wrote: "Trust no politician."

[Querent]

"The democrats are no more our champions than the republicans." That's just a completely ridiculous assertion.

[JohnFromCensornati]

No, it isn't. The Republicans are MORE our enemies. That's the best you can say.

[AngelaQuattrano]

It's hard to picture Obama as "naive", but what he's done, to my mind, is to trade the active support of many of the people who worked for him for presumed consideration from a great many people who did not support him and may never. I keep getting those emails to "participate", but I have no feeling that any participation on my part will be meaningful.

[fobrien50]

You got it right with your post before the election.

Fighting with GLBT people is a sound swing state strategy.

This is why Obama will do nothing good for the GLBT community. In fact like the last democratic president, he will likely sign legislation that hurts Gay people. And he'll probably do it before 2012.

GLBT folks need to stop funding and working for the democrats and develop their own swing state strategy.

[JimG56]

In the long run, the ban on gay marriage is not going to survive the equal protection test under the 14th amendment. Folks may say that the 14th amendment is only about race, but the amendment itself doesn't say that. Since marriage was defined as a civil right in Loving v. Virginia, eventually, a high court will look beyond homophobia and accord everybody the right to marry.

Read more at http://jgogek.wordpress.com

[rehtul]

If I understand your use of beyond the pale, of course, the answer to your byline is no. He has a right , protected by our Constitution, to individual liberty.

The supreme question which many people asks is whether Warren understands the rights of the rest of us. I answer a emphatically no.

Warren, other evangelicals, priests and the Pope refuse to respect individual liberties guaranteed us by the Constitution by supporting laws regarding sex, abortion and scientific research. In my view they are tyrants and therby enemies to the American way of life.

It is for that reason I do not support the decision to invite Warren to a ceremony where Obama swears to uphold the constitution.

[Paulied]

It is time to quit talking about the Rick Warren betrayal. Done is done. What we must all do now is demand that the President-elect honor the committments he has made to the LGBT community. As outlined on his change.gov website:

Include the LGBT community in anti-hate crime legislation.

Fight work place discrimination by supporting ENDA.

Support full civil unions and federal rights and benefits for LGBT Americans.

Oppose a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage.

Repeal don't ask don't tell.

Expand adoption rights.

Promote AIDS prevention.

And to that we must add the demand that, under the new administration, the US join the rest of the enlightened, civilized nations of the world and sign the UN's statement de-criminalizing homosexuality.

[Querent]

Absolutely right.

[JohnFromCensornati]

"so if he signed a DOMA repeal -- against his own beliefs -- would that be enough to assuage the hurt feelings over Warren?"

He needn't worry about that. No such legislation will ever reach his desk.

"But I do believe that he could be convinced to change his beliefs"

I totally agree. He's a con man.

[panamaguy]

That is an excellent post...Thank you

[pat0313]

Warren is indeed beyond the pale for his bigoted notions on LBGT issues, which seems to be the focus of the commentary. I agree that that is enough, but even more are his misogynist wives-submit-to-your-husbands nonsense and, much more importantly to the extreme diminishment and even potential destruction of our country and planet with his anti-science, creationist, apocolyptic teachings that apparently many (by his accounts anyway) actually buy into. His elevation by this appointment to give the invocation is an affront on so many levels that go far beyond the LBGT issues.

[Rmtns]

Please, let's send a message to PE Obama and the rest of America here, when Mr. Warren takes the stage and is introduced, do not react in any way, no applause, no booing nor catcalls, simply stand and turn your back to him in silence. Show your disapproval with dignity and solemnity. Imagine, hundreds of thousands of people united like this,there will never be a more appropriate response to this bigoted charlatan.

[Querent]

Good advice.