"Some might say/they don't believe in heaven/go and tell it to the man who lives in hell." --Noel Gallagher
Stephen Hawking may be the greatest working mind in science, but he apparently never plumbed the depths of What's The Story (Morning Glory)? like his metaphysical life depended on it. I mastered that territory in my mid-teens.
That's also when I started to fundamentally question everything I thought I believed about life, love, faith, reality. I blame my 10th grade English teacher, Franz Kafka and girls.
A few years after college, I began working in professional youth ministry and felt compelled to skip a lot of steps and harmful tropes I'd been exposed to and influenced by in those heady "we hate Clinton" days. On Sunday mornings and afternoons, I talked to students about Barthian theology (I'm sure I called it something different), social justice and the futility of being what they presciently dubbed a "hell monkey," that is, someone who tries to prop up Christianity with appeals to the fear of Hell with a capital H. (I think some of the boys had just seen Fight Club, and the "you are not your khakis, space monkey" thing hit home.) So when I say, "Hey, Stephen, I love your righteous mind, but as far as there being no heaven, friend, go and tell it to the man who lives in hell," I don't mean, "Go and tell it to the man who's on fire for eternity." Rob Bell alert: I don't actually believe there's a place of eternal, conscious torment. I just don't. Do you? Do you really? Even if you do, I bet you wish you didn't, and I don't say that with any particular relish.
When I heard that Dr. Hawking thinks there ain't no heaven, my first thought was: In other news, it's been confirmed that the Pope, is, indeed, Catholic. My second thought? Oasis quote! "Go and tell it to the man who lives in hell, good sir." Go and tell it to the woman who's been to hell and back, friend. Go and tell it to the gent who knows there's a heaven like he knows he's in hell now. Maybe I do mean that heaven is a place like I'm saying hell isn't, or maybe I mean heaven is Reality as such. In other words, that God is Reality, the grounding of our being, and that there's a surprising narrative arc to the story of history and to our personal stories.
I can't say I'd be upset to find out I'm wrong about all of this. I'd never know, of course. But it strikes me that heaven is the opposite of not knowing, a state of spirit, union, reality, what have you, where we may know fully, even as we are fully known. That's my hunch, anyway.
Hawking said heaven's a fairy tale for people afraid of the dark, and that passes the muster of "Everything I've Been Told About Reality is Totally Wrong 101," but I expect something a little less glib from a mind like his. And anyway, I hope for heaven -- but not because I'm scared of the dark. That's just silly. When kids are scared of the dark, it's because of what they imagine is creeping around in it, not because they sense the impending dread of annihilation. In fact, kids don't get scared of the dark until someone tells them they should be, long after they've established skills like object permanence by which they understand that things don't disappear when the lights go off.
The good professor's recent "there's no heaven" moment of "Imagine"-esque aplomb is what it is. It's not really news, any more than it was news when the USSR said Yuri Gagarin didn't find God in low orbit. We're talking about physical apples and spiritual oranges. An entirely materialistic cosmology amazes and enthralls me. The vast expanse of the universe does things to my soul I can't explain. Maybe that's akin to some innate fear of heights, maybe there's an evolutionary edge to feeling things like awe, epiphany, transcendence. And maybe heaven is in these details even as I don't expect the Hubble to send back any pictures of the Holy City coming down. Even as I don't expect pristine, cogent metaphysics from the leading scientific minds of history.
I'm one of those saps who's always been interested in the theory of The Thing In Itself. My impulse to sit and appreciate a moment, a painting, a puddle, a record, to find some unifying string in all of it or even to appreciate it for what it is, well, this borders, at times, on obsessive compulsion. Maybe so, maybe so. Maybe we're only talking about chemicals. In my silly, time-bound mind, I have to wonder, though, who the hell put them there. And why.
Follow Christopher Cocca on Twitter: www.twitter.com/ccocca
You and I may differ on some minor theological points at some time in the future...but, we will always agree that it is the Blood of our Redeemer by Grace we are saved. I will sup with you at the Feast of the Lamb.
If you believe in the possibility of heaven, with just as much proof as I've just given you...
Worship me. Love me.
People who have had NDE's have not yet died, and there has been no separation of the soul from the spirit...only a separation from the body. As the spirit is ascending towards the holding tank (i.e., Heaven), it is the lack of separation of the spirit from the soul which gives the soul a glimpse of Heaven. Yes, it is peaceful, filled with an indescribable light and love. That is what NDE's are seeing and experience in the soul.
If death does not occur then the spirit, soul, and body are back intact. However, the soul remembers to some extent what it experienced.
Now, sometimes in dreams the soul can separate itself briefly from the spirit and body. This accounts for dreams where you travel to places which are well defined in the mind or dream which you have never visited before in real life. Yet, the experience remains a little fuzzy because it has taken place on a subconscious level.
Please, read my reply to Dissident. I explain the meaning of the word "soul" in both the Old and New Testament. The Bible speaks of body, soul, and spirit. Although, there are some who choose to ignore their spirit. And, for the Christian it is the spirit which is re-born...not the soul.
However, it must be understood that man has a spirit...and, not that he is spirit.
I chose the user name "nephewof jesus" because I am truly a nephew to Jesus Christ and out of the House of David. I would like to think that I got, genetically, a little bit of my Grand Father Solomon's wisdom. Maybe so...maybe not - but, it's all good one way or the other.
By the way, most if not all of what you said is unsubstantiated b u llsh i t
So, where is Heaven located? Point straight up to the north. Anytime, day or night, or any season of the year...just point straight up and your pointing north. Read the book of Job, which is the oldest known book in the Old Testament, not Genesis. Read Job 26:7. Job says Heaven is in the north.
Read Isaiah 14:13. The Book of Isaiah says Heaven is located in the north universe. Psalms 48:1-2 says Heaven is to the north.
Hawking should know that in the north of our universe there is a void or empty space so large that it could contain thousands of Milky Ways.
Hawking was correct in stating that the human brain is a computer that shuts down when its components fail. However, this is what Hawking does not know.
Man is a trinity like God. He is composed of body, soul, and spirit. Soul and spirit are not the same. Soul is cognitive. Spirit is the life force. When man dies he truly does not know that he is dead because he can't think to know this. His spirit which is not cognitive and knows nothing ascends to Heaven.
I'll finish in another post.
Suppose Neil DeGrass Tyson was being interviewed and the interviewer inquired what he thought of the the Blue Jays chances for going to the play offs and he said "No. The Blue Jays aren't going to the World Series. They have a really weak team. The Yankees have these players and have a better shot. The Blue Jays going to the playoff's is a fairy tale for those with boring lives." Would anyone criticize a scientist for talking about baseball, which is beyond his area of expertice? Would anyone say that many of those fans have interesting lives and no progressive should talk that way? No. In fact, him being glib would be expected as part of him giving his opinion.
Yet when Steven Hawking answers a question about heaven, then everyone is a critic and it's big news. Then Hawking is being glib and non-progressive.
Why is heaven and religion more generally being treated as more special and privileged than baseball?
I'm sorry, now what does "transcendent existential" mean again? Seriously...
I tried a Google search, which got me this to the link below...and boy did that take the existential wind out my sails.
http://www.nicolaabbagnano.it/archivio_di/a_13_ingb.htm#09
You want some transcendent gibberish? Check it out.
Hell is a very real place. I understand many Americans have grown up over the last few generations appalled by the sermon by Jonathan Edwards, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", but some will not be swayed by love, but only the fear of what lies ahead.
If anything, I just hope and pray that many of you will not ignore this, but consider what scripture says.
B) When is 'the end'?