Obama, McCain And Rick Warren: Calculations At The Intersection Of Faith And Power

On Saturday, Rick Warren will host a forum with Barack Obama and John McCain billed as a discussion on character and values. What is intriguing is the intersection of faith with the scramble for power among Warren's supporters and detractors within the evangelical and wingnut power broker communities.

Some commentary has gotten quite shrill: at the Corner, hysterical claims that Obama supports killing live birth babies if their mother ever thought about abortion; and RedState demands an all-or-nothing abortion question from Warren or else cancel the event (I'm sure Warren is shaking in his pews), while the debate continues to rage over what Obama and McCain and their parties actually think about abortion and "family values."

The funniest though comes from David Waters at On Faith, who frets that pastors shouldn't be involved in political events. Geez louise, where has he been since the Reagan Administration? Runner-up just may be Sally Quinn's request that Warren ask the candidates about compromising values to attain power and prominence. (Pot, this is kettle.)

Word is that Warren will be asking both candidates about their "personal lives."

Warren told ABC News that adultery is an issue voters want to know about from presidential candidates. Wonder what Pastor Warren thinks about volunteering your wife for a topless beauty pageant? Apparently the minister who officiated at Jenna Bush's wedding gave that McCain stunt a thumbs down.

That could be...um...a lively segment with John McCain.

Meanwhile, the old-style evangelical leadership plays the "we are too still relevant" card by hosting their own "values summit" the same day as the Warren campaign event. But even they aren't exactly overcome with McCain zeal:

Engle admits that the press conference and rally on the mall are designed to counter the Warren candidate interviews, which he predicted would be more politically correct and focus more on "what the church is for rather than what it is against."

Engle, a vehement opponent of abortion rights, said the goal of the rally on the mall is to "drive the issue of abortion like a wedge into the soul of the nation."...

"I don't trust John McCain," Engle said....

Given that McCain once called them "agents of intolerance," all the current kowtowing in the world isn't going to erase that public snub during the 2000 campaign given the egos involved, but McCain's advisors have been trying to weave a "what's in it for you" delicate negotiations dance behind the scenes with many of these leaders.

However, McCain's recent hints he won't guarantee a pro-life Veep isn't going to put those doubts to rest. For them, the only issues are abortion and gays. To heck with poverty, peace, or the Golden Rule. Guess you can't successfully fundraise on "love they neighbor" alone -- it must not poll well among the fire and brimstone brigades.

But there are clouds on the megachurch horizons, with a lot of the flock feeling fleeced -- dropping out of politics altogether, suffering from "fetus fatigue" and feeling burned by manipulative promises that never came to pass.

Add in increasing debate over the "God gap," with two new polls -- from Pew and Barna -- showing higher Christian support for Obama over McCain overall:

...Obama leads among 17 of 18 faith groups. True enough, and if that holds, that would be very good news for Obama.

But the study also showed Obama has been slipping noticeably with key groups:

During the past two months, Sen. Obama's lead has eroded substantially among non-evangelical born again Christians (a decline of nine points); active Christians (a 20-point drop); Protestants (down 13 points); and Catholics (down 11 points).

Notably, these folks do not seem to be going to McCain. Barna reports that McCain's support among evangelicals has dropped from 78% to 61%

Indications are strong that younger religious voters registering to vote as Democrats this year, which fits within the trend of younger voters overall as well. Those who haven't switched political affiliation are feeling drawn to Obama's broader campaign message of social justice for "the least of these" as opposed to McCain's old school "abortion boogah boogah" approach, which some are openly mocking.

Obama has been doing significant outreach to religious communities of all stripes, with some success. But his actions are not without their detractors.

And Rick Warren isn't exactly a crowd favorite among progressives, either, especially given some of his anti-gay rhetoric through the years. So the big questions are why Obama chose this particular event, what demographic he's trying to pull in with it -- and what he risks in terms of alienation among some supporters. How will McCain try to work this to his advantage? And what's really in this for Rick Warren?

It's going to be interesting to watch the debate after the debate, so to speak.

What I'd like to see is a question on how the McCain camp is fighting back by slyly insinuating Obama might be the antichrist. Lest you think I'm kidding about the "antichrist" insinuations, CNN has now picked up the story.  Purely in the interests of journimalism, I'm sure.  Nothing like an ad cooked up by Ralph Reed pal Fred Davis which was just meant in good fun with no underlying manipulative message for the paranoid among us.

McCain has also been dispatching aides to churches nationwide to talk about Obama in less-than-Christian charity, including a recent viral e-mail campaign purportedly from a former Billy Graham team stalwart Bill Brown which not shockingly turned out to be an utter fabrication.

Last I heard, bearing false witness was still a sin, right?

To top it off, on Monday libertarian candidate Bob Barr -- who is excluded from the Warren forum -- had a private meeting at the HQ of James Dobson.

Barr, Verney said, "had a great meeting and discussion with them.

"I think it's no secret that a lot of the more conservative Republicans have doubts about Sen. John McCain, and there's been no strong commitment by anyone towards him.

Someone pass McCain the Tums.

Comments

[TXfemmom]

Organized religion, not faith, is the most dangerous threat to the continued survival of this country and the world. I have given up on organized religion, as most of it is a cesspool worse than that which was overturned by Jesus. I try to have faith that there is a good, decent, forgiving and loving figure which will somehow turn humanity around.

[SevereTireDamage]

It's over, and it didn't live up to the hype, it seems to me. I didn't hear anything about anyone's personal lives. Mostly the questions were soft enough to allow for each to cough up his basically-standard response in that area. Precious little was really challenging.

Personally, I thought Obama's answers at least seemed more thoughtful; McCain, despite Warren's exhortation to not do so, missed no opportunity to give his stump speech. He also made several statements that were demonstrably not accurate.

[doodlefarbe]

"It's over, and it didn't live up to the hype, it seems to me. I didn't hear anything about anyone's personal lives. Mostly the questions were soft enough to allow for each to cough up his basically-standard response in that area. "


I only watched a few minutes while Senator Obama was speaking and got pretty much the same sense as did you.

Although I'll add that Senator Obama seemed to be comporting himself very well and the crowd seemed to like most of his responses.

I had not seen the moderator (pastor?) before, but he seemed very friendly to Senator Obama himself. Since I didn't stick around, I presume he also pretty much softballed Senator McCain.

One thing was pretty weird - WHO did Senator Obama's make-up? He was almost caked in foundation. Yuck.

:-)

[ebethgay]

I thought the same thing about the make-up. It almost looked like he was wearing frosted eyeshadow.

[gaebolgaes]

the truly wise when dealing with the politics presenting in a racial divided nation...where there are two "moralitys" presenting...should heed the following when dealing with how black americans view the two views of what is and what is not moral. 1. every one should know that blacks...by and large abhor and are against abortion. but..the political party...the GOP.. that claims to own the pro life position..is also the party of racism.how should blacks deal with that? 2. GOP also owns religion..but it is also the party of warmongers..and has a barely disguised hatred of the poor and downtrodde­n...widows and the sick..all those jesus exhorted his followers to help.3. economic parity can be acheived in either of two ways..on the backs of the poor who survive on the edge of oblivion.. and by default...most blacks..or on the backs of the rich who will prosper know matter what.the GOP favors those who need no help.so there we have the dilemna of blacks in the political wilderness in this as emerson would say "moon bathed " nation.

[Heru1]

Most African Americans are pro choice.

[provgrays]

Rick Warren is using his church as a political organizaion.

Let it be taxed as a political organization.

[doodlefarbe]

"Rick Warren is using his church as a political organizaion."

Because he is allowing both candidates to speak, answer questions, be heard?

What criteria are you using for what it is that makes of a church a "political organization"?

[loria]

I guess when 5000 people pay $500 to $2000 for a ticket to watch the event, you might be making some money on a political event.

[provgrays]

Rick Warren has inserted himself into politics instead of his professed role as a man of God. He has the right to his own political opinions and beliefs, but when he uses his position to gain clear political influence in a presidential race, then his church is indeed a political organization.

Again, let it be taxed as one.

[heal57]

Let's have separation of church and state, please. There are too many religions to give one credence over another. This should not be happening in the US.
We're in total chaos now because our president 'talks to God'; what a joke!

[TheEmptinessOfTruthiness]

yeah but Bosh don't LISTEN to nobody ceptin' neoconists, not even the almighty

[blooddoc]

I find it a sad commentary on the condition of society - and the separation of church and state - that this sort of "evangelical summit" is even occurring, much less the amount of media attention it is drawing. Religion should play no role - repeat, no role - in the selection of political leaders in this country. It is perfectly acceptable for a candidate to have a belief system, but that system should be kept private and not factor into his/her qualifications for leadership. A profession of a religious belief is not a qualification for president, or any office for that matter. I would prefer a wise scoundrel (remember Bill?) to a religious/­ideologica­l dolt (gee, who could that be?).

[provgrays]

blooddoc,

I agree completely with your statement.

When candidates show up at a church to prostrate themselves before religious voters, then the wall between church and state disappears. There should be no litmus test on religion.

[TimeJumper]

It seems the good senator from Arizona has selective memories about Teddy Roosevelt, for our 26th president also wrote, "If there is one thing for which we stand in this country, it is for complete religious freedom, and it is an emphatic negation of this right to cross-examine a man on his religion before being willing to support him for office." -- letter to J. C. Martin, November 9, 1908

[flanardiente]

This is the same good old TR who called Tom Paine a "filthy little atheist."

[myhomeo]

I agree, as an atheist, that religion should play no role in American politics. However, I do think it is important to see how they relate their belief systems to their thought processes. Bush's problem isn't his faith, it's his dogmatism. I think we saw more of that dogma, along with a lack of humility on display tonight from McCain while Obama came across as somebody who believes in religion but actually thinks.

[JQ]

I have to say that this kind of thinking is ridiculous. Christians make up a significant portion of the electorate. I see no more problem with candidates taking time out to address their concerns than for candidates to address the concerns of blacks, women, gays or any other group of voters.

[LASteve]

I'd like to know basic things.

How do the candidates view the current status of the wall of seperation of Church and State?

Too strong, too weak, just right?

How does faith effect their public policy decisions?