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Claudia Ricci

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What, Now To Get A Job You Already Need To Have A Job?

Posted: 07/31/11 11:50 AM ET

Beverly Bowne, who lives in the Bronx, worked for 28 years as a billing coordinator for a printing company in New York City. And then in 2009, she and a number of other employees at the company -- including her own supervisor -- were laid off.

Bowne's employer was hard hit by the recession. The company, like so many in the printing industry, is shriveling fast as internet communication replaces the need for printed materials.

For Bowne, the lay off was devastating. "I fell apart completely," she said. "You have to go through the grieving process." Bowne has spent the last two and a half years looking for work, sending out hundreds of resumes. Often, she gets the cold shoulder from prospective employers reacting to her grey hair and her age (she'll be 60 next month.)

Now, she's begun to see a new kind of snub -- job ads on Careerbuilder.com from companies saying that applicants must already be employed in order to apply for the job. Bowne calls the ads "outright discrimination," adding that these ads "remind me of the 'Irish need not apply' ads of our earlier history."

Bowne isn't the only one infuriated by the ads. The progressive activist orgranization USAction has now launched an on-line petition campaign to stop what they are calling an "outrageous" form of job discrimination.

"It's outrageous enough that 14 million Americans are out of work. But discriminating against jobless people who just want to feed their families and stay in their homes? Employers should not penalize applicants for a job status that they cannot control, especially when prohibiting the unemployed from applying only compounds the issue."

To say American's are job-hungry is an understatement. So many Americans are downright desperate. To those folks, some of whom were comfortably employed at the top of their fields before they got bounced, the idea that you can't apply for a job unless you have one may sound a bit Kafka-esque. Or downright cruel.

But to companies advertising in places like Careerbuilder, Craigslist and Monster.com, there is a certain evil logic. These days, it is clearly an employer's job market. With so many millions of people unemployed, and frantic to find jobs, companies are routinely flooded with applications for every open position.

That flood gives employers the privilege to be very, very picky. Some employers reason that people who were let go during the recession -- people like Bowne who still cannot find work -- tend to be less desirable employees. Those lucky folks who have managed to keep their jobs are the cream of the crop.

This logic seems to Bowne like just one more punch in the face as millions of jobless remain unemployed, through no fault of their own. "They treat you like you don't want to work," she says, which is absolutely not the case. "We want to go back to work, but basically there is nothing out there." Bowne has attended numerous job fairs, and she's also had extensive guidance from social services on how to get re-employed. One tip she's taken to heart: volunteer work. She now spends two days a week volunteering at a nearby nursing home, and while there, she took the initiative to reorganize and clean out the conference room. She also took charge of the nursing home's files, and got them all in order. Still, she's so discouraged by job hunting in the New York area that she is now planning to relocate in the next month or two to Mesa, Arizona, where she has family. Hopefully, there, she will have more luck finding work.

The job ads in question are particularly hard on older Americans, for whom job-hunting already has a cruel twist. The clock is ticking for these folks, as they pass out of their prime working years.

Bowne says that in the many seminars and job fairs that she's attended looking for work, she's met a slew of middle-aged men and women who are up a tree looking for jobs. "Anybody in their 50s or older is really having a tough time," she says. "I've seen executives who have been out two or three years. Many of them are in their early fifties, in their prime, they've been vice presidents, and still they're without jobs."

An article in the New York Times indicates that job ads telling unemployed people not to apply is a practice that technically doesn't break the law:

Legal experts say that the practice probably does not violate discrimination laws because unemployment is not a protected status, like age or race. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission recently held a hearing, though, on whether discriminating against the jobless might be illegal because it disproportionately hurts older people and blacks.

According to the Times, companies of all sizes and types are engaged in this advertising practice. The University of Phoenix removed their ads after the Times inquired about them. Other job categories included among those discriminating against unemployed workers include "hotel concierges, restaurant managers, teachers, I.T. specialists, business analysts, sales directors, account executives, orthopedics device salesmen, auditors and air-conditioning technicians."

In a recent report, the Washington, D.C.-based National Employment Law Project called the job ads a "perverse catch-22 [which] is deepening our unemployment crisis by arbitrarily foreclosing job opportunities to many who are otherwise qualified for them. It dilutes the storehouse of talent in America, by casting aside an untold number of skilled and dedicated workers who have the misfortune of being unemployed in the worst downturn since the Great Depression. And it adds to the crisis that unemployed workers, their families and their communities face, as we try to crawl out of this deep recessionary hole."

 

Follow Claudia Ricci on Twitter: www.twitter.com/RicciCJ

Beverly Bowne, who lives in the Bronx, worked for 28 years as a billing coordinator for a printing company in New York City. And then in 2009, she and a number of other employees at the company -- inc...
Beverly Bowne, who lives in the Bronx, worked for 28 years as a billing coordinator for a printing company in New York City. And then in 2009, she and a number of other employees at the company -- inc...
 
 
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99er2049er
Voted by mail for 2012 election - All Democrats
10:43 AM on 08/02/2011
If you can take on consulting projects, this will help. But this is a total BS policy to discriminate against someone who is unemployed. Also of course, when you are unemployed, you probably then run into financial problems, so your credit takes a huge hit. e.g. many unemployed must declare bankruptcy or become delinquent on their mortgage, fall behind in credit card payments. So of course many companies also run a background check and find a bad credit rating, so they won't hire you.

How do we expect those who are unemployed to become employed again with these huge barriers against them? And if we don't remove these barriers, what do you expect to do with all these tens of millions of people? Watch them become homeless?
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ClaudiaR
02:24 PM on 08/07/2011
The points you make are good, especially at the end -- you are absolutely on target: "How do we expect those who are unemployed to become employed again with these huge barriers against them?" And yes, if we don't remove these barriers, we are going to see millions of people in desperate straits, and in tents because they lose their homes. It's shameful! thank you so much for writing! CR
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99er2049er
Voted by mail for 2012 election - All Democrats
02:49 PM on 08/07/2011
And I argue this repeatedly with republicans. What do you do when you have tens of millions more people looking for jobs, than there are jobs to be filled. And what do you tell the millions who are actively looking for jobs everyday, but not getting the jobs? I can tell you first hand, that just on careerbuilder.com alone, I was competing against an average of 300+ people for each job I applied for, not to mention all the other job boards. Some jobs even showed over a 1,000 people.

When I would land a phone interview, the interviewer would tell me there were dozens of people I would compete against. Then the first interview, over a dozen people, then the 2nd interview, probably a half dozen. Then even if I ranked #2 or #3 out of the hundreds I started out against, I would not get the job, so I would have to start all over again and again and again. It would often take months just to get a few phone interviews. So you can see the odds are heavily stacked against the unemployed.

Many employers would not even talk to me because I was unemployed.

So what do you do with these unemployed, help them help themselves, or do you cut their only life line for survival? I can't believe any human being would be cold blooded enough to cut someone in need, while wanting to give billions to the wealthy.
03:41 PM on 08/01/2011
There are a few ways around this. One is to be volunteering your skills somewhere. Whatever skills you have, there are lots of nonprofits that can put you to work. That shows that you are doing something besides sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. You can take part-time or project work, sign up with 2 or 3 temp agencies close to you, etc. Have something to be putting on your resume instead of a blank space for a year or two. That will help your odds a bit.
06:51 PM on 08/05/2011
Volunteering is a viable option, if you have FREE childcare. Temping is great - however most childcare providers expect you to pay a fee even if your child is not there.

I would LOVE to volunteer or temp. However what am I supposed to do with my kids? I have no support network here. Everyone I know works the same hours I would be volunteering or temping.

I don't have a blank space. I have stay at home mother. Duties include chauffeur, referee, accountant, chef, tutor, mediator, maid, etc
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ClaudiaR
02:26 PM on 08/07/2011
As the mother of three kids (now grown) I HEAR YOU. How the heck can you volunteer and pay a babysitter, unless said babysitter is willing to volunteer! Your duties are many, and mighty important!
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ClaudiaR
02:25 PM on 08/07/2011
Sure, volunteering is a great idea, I agree, and it builds the resume, but at some point we need to be giving people paying jobs -- otherwise how can we expect them to be the good consumers we need them to be to stimulate the economy?
11:36 AM on 08/01/2011
It's very, very rare that I say this. But I will say it: there oughta be a law......
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ClaudiaR
02:25 PM on 08/07/2011
Yeah, I kind of agree. A law saying no discrimination against the unemployed, so many of whom are not in that position through any fault of their OWN!
10:23 AM on 08/01/2011
You are singing my song! I have 20 years of secretarial/billing/HR experience but took the past 7 years to work PT because of I have a special needs child. With the fall of the economy many of the pt jobs I held were eliminated. I then worked as a substitute teacher.

For the past year I have been trying to get a Full time job or any part-time regular job. But, I was told by one company that if I am not already employed full time they toss my resume and application in the trash.

I then re-wrote my resume to include a false part-time job that I have "held" for the past 7 years which is owned by a friend. The friend vouched for me that I have been employed with them. And guess what? I started getting interviews with the same companies that would not even interview me because I was not "employed".

Sometimes you have to Lie to take care of your family.
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99er2049er
Voted by mail for 2012 election - All Democrats
10:46 AM on 08/02/2011
A lie to survive is a good lie. The funny thing is, the interviewers expect everyone to lie on a certain percentage of their resume. I think the number was 10 - 25%? I have told the truth in many interviews and then told by the recruiter that I didn't get the job because the hiring manager didn't believe me. I even brought in samples of my work and could answer all their questions about the experience, but because the company I worked for many have done something differently than the way the company I was interviewing with did things, they just assumed I lied. Can you believe that? That has happened several times, where I had direct confirmation of this. So if you have to lie sometimes and you can still do the job, go ahead, if that is what you have to do to survive. What's the worst that can happen, they fire you? So what!
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ClaudiaR
02:30 PM on 08/07/2011
Reading this, it's clear to me that you have a lot of creativity. It seems to me that companies -- conservative by nature -- often shy away from something or some ONE that they don't understand. Stick to your guns! And thanks so much for writing! CR
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ClaudiaR
02:28 PM on 08/07/2011
Hello there, I am not big on lying, but in this case, I find myself cheering you on! What a world we live in that we have to lie this way! HERE'S HOPING YOU GET A JOB SOON!!!!!
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den1953
The best politicians are for free!
09:07 AM on 08/01/2011
As soon as someone in Washington can figure out how to make a company in America produce that 5 dollar item for 40 cents the American population will enjoy labor prosperity, this is why China is out producing the American worker and why we have no jobs. China takes care of there workers free health care and housing in return for there labor can any American even imagine that happening in the USA? This nation needs to address the real issue either they help American industry and it's workers by tax restructure or have a nation full of homeless minimum wage workers, this is why  we need to think about a consumption tax where everyone pays the same amount. This will be a problem solving answer to class warfare and special interest in Washington, it will give Americans more purchasing power by having more money at the end of the week, and free up capital to purchase new equipment for the factories in order to hire more workers. Anything is better then false promises from politicians that are more concerned about elections then getting America back to work!
10:08 AM on 08/01/2011
Are you suggesting the Fairtax?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
den1953
The best politicians are for free!
11:24 AM on 08/01/2011
I am suggesting doing what ever has to be done to compete with those who are stealing our jobs, the fact that we simply hear Washington tell us we can't bring the jobs back is not factual and can not continue. If you want to call it a fairtax so be it, American workers will never see free Government health care or free housing so what is left either paying them 2 dollar's a day which is unheard of or let companies that hire operate cheaply to compete?
10:29 AM on 08/01/2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdTOFkhaplo&feature=related

You need to watch "Shift Happens" the original version to understand why China can do what they do.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
den1953
The best politicians are for free!
11:30 AM on 08/01/2011
F&F
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99er2049er
Voted by mail for 2012 election - All Democrats
08:28 AM on 08/01/2011
Companies that refuse to hire someone who is unemployed is not only morally and ethically wrong, but it sends a bad message to people that they want you to quit your current job to take their job. So what does that say about the person who takes the job. This person will obviously look for an even better job once he or she takes this job. And corporations want you to come from an industry with the exact background knowledge and skills of this company, so they are telling you, we want to hire someone who competes with us. So now this new employee will pick up skills from this company and run right off to a higher paying competitor. Great strategy corporations.
awsomeprogressive
what camel through the eye of a needle
07:43 AM on 08/01/2011
Its just a matter of time before the people doing the discriminating will be unemployed themselves, there is nothing on the economic horizon thats going to turn America around.
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99er2049er
Voted by mail for 2012 election - All Democrats
08:29 AM on 08/01/2011
And that is the ultimate irony, when an HR manager loses a job and has to become the job applicant themselves. This reminds me of the republicans that chew out the unemployed and refuse to give them unemployment benefits, telling them they are lazy and how they could find a job, until they themselves become the unemployed, then suddenly, "DOHHHHHHHH"
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ClaudiaR
02:32 PM on 08/07/2011
Your statement "THERE IS NOTHING ON THE ECONOMIC HORIZON THAT"S GOING TO TURN AMERICA AROUND" is scary but I'm afraid, true!
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Elyriaohio
Stop the Monarchy
07:37 AM on 08/01/2011
Mostly it's the idiots in HR departments. We can't get past their prehistoric views of "good" candidates. You have to take temp jobs (if you can) to minimize gaps in your resume while you look for meaningful work. (I've been looking for 2 years and 7 months.)
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99er2049er
Voted by mail for 2012 election - All Democrats
08:33 AM on 08/01/2011
I have run into the problems with HR people demanding that you meet 12 specific job descriptions and if you only have 11 out of the 12, they won't even speak to you. It used to be that you could explain your background and skillsets and tell them how you could come up to speed on the 12th item, even on your own time. Now, no way, they will block you with software.

Also, they look for the purple squirrel, which is someone who simply does not exist. They then post month after month, year after year for the same exact job. They either can't find anyone, or fire someone within 6 months and start the process over and over again.

I often find in my job, that a half dozen people have been in my position over a 3 year period. Great, that shows you how long the job will last.
11:36 AM on 08/01/2011
And in the interim, the hiring manager is working an extra 20 hours a week in a desperate attempt to cover the hole in his organization. But can she complain about the lack of resumes coming to her from HR?

No she cannot, because she knows that her next promotion will involve a meeting. A meeting that she will never know about, between that promoting manager, HR, and some other stakeholders. In that meeting the stakeholders, including HR, will discuss whether they have any concerns. If HR voices something about "difficult to work with" or "desires to cut corners", she's sunk before even realizing she was up for consideration.
07:13 AM on 08/01/2011
Any gap in the resume seems to be a death sentence in the job market, no matter what the reason. After taking several years off to raise my children I was really looking forward to going back to work. However, months and months of sending resumes, applications and networking have landed me only a few interviews and no offers. I even had two recruiters tell me to lie and fill in more in my gap years. I have a masters from a top university and years of experience with large respected companies. I have something to offer but can't even get in the door.

It seems I'm doomed to lifelong unemployement or at best underemployment, along with so many others who can't seem to catch a break in this market. The "unemployment figures" don't capture people like me, or someone who has taken a job way below where they used to be. Anyone who beleives unemployment is 9% is smoking something!
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99er2049er
Voted by mail for 2012 election - All Democrats
08:35 AM on 08/01/2011
I was a 99er, I went back to school and earned my degree, and still nobody was interested in hiring me. I was even finding with my degree that the jobs were paying on average 20% less than what I made before I had the degree. I finally landed a great job, but that was only after taking a really bad job with a very unstable company, then I did what this article talks about, I had a job, so I used that to look for a better job. The strategy works, but its sad we have to operate this way.
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ClaudiaR
02:34 PM on 08/07/2011
Hello "educatedsoccermom" -- what you describe here is evidence that women are hurt in particular by this discrimination. In a society where we are always talking about FAMILY VALUES, shouldn't we be making allowances for women (and men) taking time off to raise children?? It's the most important job we will ever do in our lives! Good luck to you, and thank you so much for writing! CR
07:24 AM on 08/08/2011
It's brutal out there no matter what your story is. If anything I think those who have been laid off and have been off for extended periods of time have it worse. Potential employers look at them and say "if he/she is so great, why are they still not working?' Like 99er said - you almost have to take a position several notches below your ideal just to get into the market then claw your way back up over years and years.

And yes it's sad that I have to practically apologize for taking on the most important job there is - raising my children. But that's been a problem for decades and isn't limited to our current economic crisis. It's simply amplified now.
03:02 AM on 08/01/2011
Unemployment numbers are comprised of those that are in the job market for the past 30 days. It does not include those that have not been in the job market in the last 30 days: people who have given up looking; those that have gone off unemployment because it has run out. One solution to unemployment is "High Speed University" check it out
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99er2049er
Voted by mail for 2012 election - All Democrats
08:36 AM on 08/01/2011
Also, under-employed, those who take part time jobs or jobs that pay half their livable wages, in order to survive. Unemployment is really around 18-20% or more.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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02:40 AM on 08/01/2011
Sheer insanity. Or just lazy employers. Not sure which is more destructive.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
capitaldysfunction
White male never voted Republican
02:16 AM on 08/01/2011
I'm not a fan of Soprano Fats Christy, the governor of New Jersey, but to his credit he has outlawed this practice. The cold and cruel on the right were no doubt disappointed with that.
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ClaudiaR
02:35 PM on 08/07/2011
Hi, I had not heard that Christy outlawed this practice. Will check it out! Thanks so much for writing and bringing this to my attention! Claudia Ricci
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Brent Rossen
Is our children learning?
01:05 AM on 08/01/2011
Maybe if we slash corporate taxes even more the job creators will have a change of heart.

HAHAHAHAHA Just kidding, only baggers believe that kind of stuff.
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ClaudiaR
02:36 PM on 08/07/2011
We do need to keep our sense of humor through all this, yes. Why is it that so many people really believe that cutting corporate taxes is going to lead to lots more jobs?
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PatrickforO
America needs a Labor Party
09:38 PM on 07/31/2011
Hey, its the newest management fad! 'Course, the GOP has been advocating it for years: Kick 'em while they're down! Check out Bill Maher's new GOP motivational video...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/30/bill-mahers-gop-motivational-movie-reel_n_914044.html
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ClaudiaR
02:37 PM on 08/07/2011
thanks for sending this, will check it out now, love Bill Maher! CR
08:23 PM on 07/31/2011
How many people need to end up homeless and destitute before this practice is outlawed?
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ClaudiaR
08:44 PM on 07/31/2011
Hi, Thank you for asking this important and very scary question. We as a society should be ashamed that unemployed people face such desperate straits. I don't know where all this is going or where it's headed. We are not going in the right direction, that's for sure. Thanks for writing!
10:39 AM on 08/01/2011
Ordinary people seem to have no effect at all on our public policy. The president has just caved to the Republicans again, in a way that will slow down our economic growth even further.