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DocWylie
microbio with herbs..yumm
01:30 AM on 06/24/2008
I just got to laugh.
At least GWB bribed us with promises of a real cash "tax rebate".
McCain is just a bad copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of Prescott Bush.
So he offers this pie in the sky miracle battery contest, maybe, someday. maybe.

Want to see the real future of personal transportation go YouTube search "air car".

No heavy batteries of powerplant, no heavy cooling system, no pollution if green source power used.
and very close to becomong a reality in Europe.

Only problem not apparently solved what to do with oil company laid off ex-employees.
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12:51 PM on 06/24/2008
Sure, look up Air Car on Wikipedia: Disadvantages: Using energy to compress air is less efficient than charging a battery with that same energy - compressed-air car's overall efficiency is approximately one third of a comparable electric car.
03:13 PM on 06/24/2008
Don't even try. How many people do you know who could tell the difference between adiabatic and isothermal compression? The Doc up there for sure doesn't.
12:37 AM on 06/24/2008
No surprise here: John is pretty free with my tax dollars. He's willing to waste trillions getting our kids killed off in the mideast for no good reason. p*ssing another $300M of our money away isn't a big deal. It's not like its his money - er - I mean his wife's money.
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Bettysdad
The arc of human history is to the left.
12:01 AM on 06/24/2008
Aren't these the guys that believe the "free market" can solve all our problems.

Why does McCain want to interfere with inducements?
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Infostream
01:03 AM on 06/24/2008
Exactly... except the free market isn't free, it is corrupted by oil companies who will do ANYthing to insidiously distract people from real solutions.
What is really going on here is another distraction like Bush and Schwarzenegger promoting hydrogen - THESE ARE ENERGY STORAGE DEVICES - NOT ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES. Bush, Arnold and McLame want us all to be focused on batteries and hydrogen fuel cells because they know to charge the batteries or make the hydrogen we'll still be dependent on existing Big Energy Oil and Coal - merrily burning their trillions of dollars of hydrocarbon product and pumping more greenhouse gas CO2 into the air. They want to keep people from seeing that the real issue is we need to make the energy we need with non-centralized democratized green energy sources.
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poomplet
"Happy....Happy..."
10:22 PM on 06/23/2008
Jesus...it's something.

People know they can make fortunes designing more efficient int. combustion engines...I don't see one yet. The X-Prize competition came up with great ideas & new concepts in affordable launch vehicles...that's what he's going for. It's not just for big manufacturers; small educational research groups that can actually use that $$ can maybe afford to take a risk and try something new.

It's not groundbreaking, but it's sad, funny, obvious & almost understandable that dems have to jeer at anything McCain puts out & cheer/justify anything Obama says/does. If Obama offered this up, it'd be genius. If McCain flipped-flopped on public campaign funds after SIGNING something to the contrary, he'd be eviscerated. McCain promotes nuclear power and domestic drilling...he's Bush III.

But when Obama says the SAME THINGS, only the super-greens say anything.

Again...it's kind of the nature of the beast, we want our guy to win, it's a war, you need to attack the opponent. But when you make attacks like this reflexive & obvious...that cheapens the debate on the real issues.
Scott1560
Proud Reagan Republican to Indy and Back!
11:00 PM on 06/23/2008
Right on! Right on! Right on!

Can't be too many sales folks here? McCain has a pretty good idea and he tosses out a figure. He's a politician and needs to toss out big ideas w/big numbers. As we all know, you start big and negotiate down. Congress would have the last word. Hey, maybe it ends up being a $1 Mil competition?

You don't sell an idea by tossing out lame, weak numbers.

Obama simply tosses out the big, bold (like we've not heard it before) "Change," and the lemmings flock.

Let's get to the issues, stop the party platform screens, BS litmus tests, and concentrate on ideas that just might work. $300 Mil is nothing and could even be won by a university (to satisfy those who would prefer we just award some institution the bucks).
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Guitarsandmore
devoted father, community activist, musician, reti
12:09 AM on 06/24/2008
Most likely the way this would shake out is the person with the best idea would get the 300 million dollars and the oil companies would put the invention in cold storage for the next 100 years. No one would actually build the new idea, they would just buy it and make sure it never got built.

You have to remember McCain is a Republican through and through and he will never do anything for the common man. He is of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation. Repeat after me," I will vote for the Democrat because the Republicans have proven over and over again they are a bunch of lieing, cheating, murderous, bastards, who just want to take over the world for profits and screw you as much as possible."
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04:41 PM on 06/24/2008
Senator Barack Obama delivered a speech on February 28, 2006 calling for every government car to be a PHEV. McCain is a little late getting started.
10:18 PM on 06/23/2008
"The battery Problem" is no more. the A123 nanophosphate batteries and other latest generation lithium Ion batteries have virtually Perfect characteristics:

2000 Watts/lb about 3 HP per lb.
Typical Lithium ion high capacity, several times NiMH.
virtually no self discharge, 2 years to 10% charge.
10,000 cycles. 200k miles for an electric car.
Non-toxic and recyclable.
Free from thermal runaway problems of 1st gen LiOIN.
low cost.
In production for over a year and market proven.

http://www.a123systems.com/#/home/phev

I wish I owned stock, but who knows which new battery company will win out?
03:17 PM on 06/24/2008
What is "low cost"? If it's $100k for a vehicle that can do 200 miles on a charge, it's not low enough.

There is nothing wrong with hybrids, by the way. We are not running out of oil. We are running out of cheap oil and we just have to learn to use expensive oil smarter. That's what hybrids do. So if we can get a real parallel hybrid with plug in option into the market within ten years, we will be fine.
04:37 PM on 06/24/2008
Hi KillTheMessenger,

Don't want to worry you, or have you change your position . .. but I do agree with your advice.

A caveat . . . whether or not there is plenty of oil . . . why use it all up, when we can be clever, adapt and roll-on.
09:56 PM on 06/23/2008
This does sound nice, but is total BS. I work in semiconductors and this is a focus of every electronic company from Nokia and Apple to GE and Boeing. There are hundreds of battery breakthroughs that far surpass what the automotive companies are currently using. Who judges this competition? What are the rules? How do we know who wins and why?

This is the equivalent of the gas tax holiday - just a political stunt to win votes. Please inform the dim-witted masses.
10:36 PM on 06/23/2008
Good points. The "prize" is a loopy Newt Gingrich idea. The $5,000 credit will do little but encourage the vehicle makers to raise their prices $5,000. But Obama's support for the ethanol law is bad too.
11:48 AM on 06/24/2008
Agreed. Ethanol is as big of a hoax as "clean coal" or the hybrids on the market today. There are technologies that are truely clean, but the automotive, oil and agricultural industries have no interest in cheap, clean energy. That is why we need to take away all oil and farming subsidies to let them know that American are moving on, with or without them.

That brings me to another point. People who are in favor of capitalism should be outraged that we help industries that are struggling. If we let the free market run its course, America would be leading the world in these new energy technologies, but the Republicans want the tax payers to support companies who make poor long-term investments. Republicans are socializing oil, agriculture and the automotive industry. In my opinion, let all those companies burn to the ground and allow more progressive companies to rise from their ashes.
03:20 PM on 06/24/2008
You are already paying a $5k surcharge for the Prius. Efficient vehicles are going to be very expensive for the next few years for the same reason oil is expensive: we have waited for the market to solve the problem. And the market does what it is supposed to do: raise prices until it hurts so bad that behavior changes.

Yesterday I saw a 1999 first generation Prius offered in the newspaper for $23k, almost new price.
09:40 PM on 06/23/2008
It's nice to know that the censors are out and about on George (not Bush's, unfortunately) Carlan's Death. The man that got the Supreme Courts Attention on the seven word category. I'm keeping it clean, If you fine people haven't seen the film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" then you missed Mel Gibson, Alexandra Paul, Tom Hanks and a cast of several prominent people speak how wonderful the EV-1 Electric Car they had leased was. Too BAD! They were all confiscated when the leases ran out and they methodically and systamatically hauled them off and promptly had them crushed. Except one, it was preserved for ---- who cares. And that 300 million Dollars McCain is going to reward to person or persons, intity, or robot that discovers that BATTERY that will save mankind? General Shingehi Motors will surely get the nod, since they already have the battery and the patent in their hot little hands. It's ALL in the MOVIE!!!! Find it and watch it, in color, beautifully directed and when you reach ending, try not to go our and tear somebody's head off if they resemble a CEO from General Motors, because the Heads of State in California, American Petroleum Insitute amoung others are guilty as can be and no one is going to do anything about it. They know it, G.W. Bush knows it and by gaallllyyyy they are going to FLAUNT IT!!!!!
09:30 PM on 06/23/2008
If Obama would have done this, he would have been the second coming of Christ.

Oh wait, you already think he is.

Nevermind
09:46 PM on 06/23/2008
Was that supposed to be funny??
12:25 PM on 06/24/2008
Funny to me!
09:25 PM on 06/23/2008
The only thing that is cynical is this article.
08:59 PM on 06/23/2008
Maybe what we need is a more efficient way to produce ethanol. A way that does not compete with growing food. Maybe its sugar cane or potatoes, but that's still food. Maybe, we don't need a battery but a really super capacitor. Maybe we need a fuel cell technology like that used on the space shuttle, only more efficient and a lot cheaper. Maybe we need an engine that can convert organic waste to energy, while not polluting. Maybe we need to understand how an electric eel creates energy. Maybe we need higher gas prices so that there is a greater entrepreneurial incentive. Maybe we should address population growth. Maybe we should stop listening to anyone that speaks of more drilling. Maybe we need a 500 pound car. maybe we need to totally abandon internal combustion. Maybe we need a vision not limited to the ten second sound bite. Maybe we meed a leader not tied to big oil. Maybe we can start by electing someone who is not willing to corrupt science education to support a political agenda. Maybe we need to step out of the box. Either way, 300 million for a narrow solution ain't gonna get it.
Scott1560
Proud Reagan Republican to Indy and Back!
08:56 PM on 06/23/2008
Not a bad idea at all and something has been used in the past to develop new technologies (space travel). $300 Mil is pretty cheap.

Can't imagine why anyone would be opposed? I'm certain that if Obamba or even Clinton proposed the idea that there would have been a flurry of support for the idea on this site. I'm sure of it.

Interesting to note that Obama is now interested in exploring the possibilities of nucelar power, yet where's the outrage?

Sorry, but developing battery technology has been very slow. Offering a prize just might pick the pace up a tad.

We've always been a nation of inventors so why not tap into it. And, for those of you concerned about big oil stepping in and quashing.......that would be pretty difficult to do w/a prize like that on the table, a prize offered by a government.

I've never understood why we've not put more into developing electric cars. I'll put my politics aside for a major jump in battery technology and anything it takes to get it going.
09:51 PM on 06/23/2008
Batteries only store energy, equal (ideally) to the amount of energy put into it

So, say, if the energy comes from coal (often), it actually makes the problem worse.
Scott1560
Proud Reagan Republican to Indy and Back!
10:28 PM on 06/23/2008
Excellent point and one that I doubt many folks understand.

We need clean sources of energy and highy-efficient methods of storing that energy.

LiPos are a great example, cells that most of the development has come from the radio-control community of which I've long been a part of (battery powered aircraft).

This is why I like to put politics aside on this issue. There are great ideas on both sides. A little common sense is needed. Unfortunately, common sense is overshadowed by big-bucks politics and those behind the scenes, the folks we don't vote for, but who have input into every policy decision, every speech. That's politics.
08:57 PM on 06/23/2008
Republicans just use gimmicks and panders in election circles. Just check the number of times McCain has Flip flopped on Policy issues and you would understand that, they do not think before airing out anything they air out. They just say them so as to impress the American people who are not informed enough. Not this time.
If McCain and the Republican party wants any change with regards Energy, they should give a consortium of Universities the 300 Million Dollars for them to research and produce such a Battery, whose patent right could be sold for a profit, to the Auto Industry. Selling such rights, would pay back the 300 Million and even make profits that would go a long way to develop such Universities.
The fact is just that, McCain is attached like the like Bush, Cheney and the Republican Party to the big Oil Companies and that is why McCain is pandering for Offshore Drilling. We have seen this before, we know the aim of such gimmicks but then I would say the American people deserve better.
Not this time.
Scott1560
Proud Reagan Republican to Indy and Back!
09:09 PM on 06/23/2008
All politicians use gimmicks & pander to the LCD. Party has nothing to do w/it. All politicians flip on issues, but that's not always a bad thing as it does show maturation and sometimes a simple matter of adjusting to the average citizen's beliefs. Isn't that what we want? I could jump on both McCain & Obama on many issues, but I've got very few problems w/certain changes they've made. Geez, I sort of applaud them for it. I like the fact that Obamba is now open to exploring nuclear power.
Mildmannered
"Be excellent to each other"
08:39 PM on 06/23/2008
corn ethanol is a waste of good food corn.
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brighterside
Fall seven times, stand up eight
09:19 PM on 06/23/2008
Ethanol is not the best alternative fuel source. But I think its viable and cleaner than regular oil. The entire nation of Brazil is free from oil because it uses ethanol. I also think that ethanol can be used in regular vehicles just like oil.

Saying that ethanol will waste food is a myth. America has already so much food that we can probably end world hunger within months if we would learn how to distribute all the food we have. This is a fear that bears no evidence.

Although I'm not a proponent on ethanol I still think its a viable solution to end our oil addiction. Obama is heading down the right path even though I think there are better alternatives.
Mildmannered
"Be excellent to each other"
10:36 PM on 06/23/2008
I respectfully disagree, brighterside.

The production of ethanol from corn (not sugar cane as in Brazil) is not an energy-efficient process. Ethanol fuel produced from corn will not result in significantly lower carbon dioxide emissions. Further, diverting resources into corn ethanol production drives up food prices and could very well exacerbate world hunger. The only people likely to benefit from corn ethanol subsidies are large agricultural corporations.
03:26 PM on 06/24/2008
Looks like somebody swallowed the hook. And the line. And the sinker. Careful with that boat now!
Mildmannered
"Be excellent to each other"
08:27 PM on 06/23/2008
Who then owns the patent rights to this battery? Does the inventor/company still own them? Does the US government? Why not take that money and pay a consortium of universities to develop the batteries?
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brighterside
Fall seven times, stand up eight
09:37 PM on 06/23/2008
There are several types to an electric car battery. The typical battery that most are familiar with is the lead acid battery. You'll find one in every car. This type of battery was first used to run an electric car.

Most electric car batteries use a lithium ion battery or a variant of this type. This is the same type of battery that powers your laptop. I don't believe that lithium ion is owned or patented by anyone because of its universal use. However, the materials and manpower to construct it is costly and there are only a handful of companies making lithium ion batteries for cars.

Toyota also runs on lithium ion. But I believe that theirs is a variant that improves on performance and recharge time. Therefore, they are able to patent some of their development.

Lastly, a different type of electric car battery was made by an inventor known as the Nickel hydrid battery. It was invented in the late 90s and offered a better solution to either lead battery or lithium ion. However, he mistakenly sold the patent to the car company which in turned sold it to the oil company. Till this day, the most viable electric car battery is owned by the oil companies. They have not use for it but to keep America forever in the grips of big oil.
03:27 PM on 06/24/2008
The Prius runs on NiMH (Nickel-Metalhydride) batteries. There is not a single production car on sale right now that uses Li battery technology. I don't count things like Prius upgrades and the Tesla as production cars. They are just toys.
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lapdogs
Avid News Reader
07:50 PM on 06/23/2008
Does Johnny Boy mean something already on the market like this?

Toshiba's new SCiB battery charges in 5 minutes, releases March 2008 for electric vehicles
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/11/toshibas-new-scib-battery-charges-in-5-minutes-releases-march/
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brighterside
Fall seven times, stand up eight
08:19 PM on 06/23/2008
Two things I noticed about republicans and their media pundit supporters. They think that alternative energy is too far into the distant future to consider. Therefore, why support it while we have status quo oil? This is why this comment coming from McCain was naive and just plan stupid. Stupid is because that we have had electric car batteries for more than a decade now in the U.S. One of those car battery technologies is being held by the oil companies patent on the NiMH. They want to make sure oil is the standard for energy for the long haul, thus they have not pursued in making this technology viable.

On the other hand, Japan have vigorously invested millions of dollars in electric car batteries. Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, etc. have all come up with competing ideas while our republicans and our president simply fool the public into a deeper oil addiction. I believe that Japan has about a 10 year advantage in electric car battery technology. But fools like McCain think that its too far into the future for the normal American to even conceive.