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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
10:34 PM on 11/22/2011
FOr all those folks who want to call the unemployed lazy and say they should get a job.

Please before posting and showing your disregard for math and pragmatics consider that there are still 4-5 times as many unemployed as there are available jobs.
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omnioasis
11:18 PM on 11/22/2011
The problem lies in the fact there are 3.5 million openings, which makes no sense if people need jobs. Extending un employment would not encourage people to get off of it and find a job. Canad cut theirs down drastically with incentives and employment went up.
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
11:26 PM on 11/22/2011
Yes and 14million seekers. So yes some jobs will go unfilled, especially those that are merely testing to see what applicants they get.

We have a demand problem and a consumer without money to spend. The middle class in the US has had stagnant wages since the 1970s. This (wages) is not the case in Canada. Canada also has universal health care. What works there may not work so well here. But I believe we should investigate opportunities.

Until the consumer gets more cash to spend, we will not have more jobs. No business will build products they can not sell. Many corporations have plenty of cash but our economy is 75% consumer based.

BTW those 3.5 million jobs are what is available, it is possible that 2-3 million are filled every month and those are new ones. If our unemployment per week numbers are at 400,000 (about 1.2 million a month) and we show a net gain of about 100,000 per month that means about 1.3million jobs were filled (at a minimum)
12:31 AM on 11/23/2011
And those 3.5 million openings are mostly going unfilled because they're not REAL jobs. They're either advertising for the "walks on water and will accept minimum wage for doing so" type, or those are phony openings that the employers will use to go before Congress once again to demand an increase in the number of H1B visas so they can import more foreign workers who'll work for half the price of Americans. Mostly they're the latter.

A couple of times a year CEOs and business owners go before Congress AGAIN to demand an increase in visa quotas, and every time, Congress caves. And the thing about those H1B visa holders is they never have to go home. The next batch are on top of all the previous years' batches.
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themodernleader
10:28 PM on 11/22/2011
Eliminating unemployment benefits would harm for cutting consumption. Perpetuating welfare) benefits for millions spawns a rabble that destroys self-government. Continuing tax cuts keeps consumption alive. Keeping the tax cuts increases debt and ownership by opponents. Neither cutting spending or raising taxes is acceptable, yet following the present strategy results in long term national destruction. What must we do? First, through nation-rebuilding , we must provide employment for idled people able and willing to work. The money saved from welfare, eliminating tax deductions and progressive taxation on residual income, profits and inheritance pays for national reconstruction program. Second, we must pull out of all mercantilism trade arrangements through enactment of import duties. We must manufacture most of what we consume. Third, we must rescind the Bush-Obama debt guarantees and renegotiate national debt or rescind it. Last, there must be a renewal of citizenship. Hard work, sacrifice for the family and future, honor, integrity, selflessness and courage towards Republic must become habitual. All Americans must have a purpose in reestablishing our Republic as the example for ordinary people throughout the world. Our leaders must transformed as was Saul along the Appian Way in the age of Caesar Augustus. Our leaders must be reborn to the democratic processes of selflessness, rule of law, trust and confidence in the ordinary membership and a renewal of faith in our nation. It is never to late to rededicate and transform and restart decision-making at all levels of our nation. Let's get going.
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TruelyFedUp
Ethics is nothing else than reverence for life.
08:00 PM on 11/23/2011
The government now holds in "trust" for us around 30% of the nation's land and there are plans in the works to increase that to 50% to protect our "treasured landscapes". The undercut of what you propose is to get people housed and fed and self sustaining by using the land and resources that we have already available.

In almost days people can be given land, given lumber and tools and a plan for creating a community with modest housing, shared buildings for kitchens, laundries, dining halls, libraries, business centers, schools, clinics all built and run by the people living there. Get folks out of the tent cities and get them secure from the weather and fed first. This is vital with winter coming. When people are fed and sheltered and working on something that helps them improve their conditions all these other things can follow for the folks that already have a house and food.
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themodernleader
12:00 AM on 11/24/2011
  Ancient Roman politicians tried a similar resettlement   for returning veterans of war in the last decades of the Roman Republic..  The  political party backed by the capitalists-financiers who  already occupied the public land stopped the  decentralizing of concentrated, centralized wealth and ownership by mass murder of the reformers. 
    Once a nation becomes an oligarchy, the emerging caste won't ever  let loose.
10:27 PM on 11/22/2011
Paying people NOT to work is NEVER good.
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
10:29 PM on 11/22/2011
UI benefit is insurance.
Are you saying insurance benefits are bad?
10:37 PM on 11/22/2011
Nice deflection... There is a point where it must end. An eternal check will keep certain individuals unemployed eternally....
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TruelyFedUp
Ethics is nothing else than reverence for life.
08:02 PM on 11/23/2011
So give 'em land and lumber and tools and seeds and tell them to make themselves self sustaining. That is the quickest way to get people out of tent cities and to feed the starving kids...
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wtf is this
It depends.
10:50 PM on 11/22/2011
Then lets pay them to work. How about putting money into infrastructure? Teachers? Firemen?
09:44 AM on 11/23/2011
The money would need to go into the private sector.
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MinneMike
I am 1% deal with it
10:21 PM on 11/22/2011
A question for my esteemed liberals: Why do you continue to not fund Social Security by imposing payroll tax cuts?
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
10:30 PM on 11/22/2011
Perhaps because the TP/GOP would not fund any stimulus except more tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations.
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MinneMike
I am 1% deal with it
10:51 PM on 11/22/2011
You do realize that the Bush Tax Cuts was renamed last December? They are now the Obama-Reid-Pelosi Tax Cuts.
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omnioasis
11:23 PM on 11/22/2011
What tax cuts??? the last Tax cut was 2001, and Obama continued them. That tax cut was a flat 4% by the way.The majority of our finacial problems anddebt and record deficit spending is from 2008 on. And if you dont like tax laws ask why a democrat named CharlieRangel did nothing to change them over the 40 years he was involved in writing them.
12:41 AM on 11/23/2011
I agree with you and hate that this is the only way to get ANY kind of help for the middle class.
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btbamfan
That which doesn't last forever will stop.
09:49 PM on 11/22/2011
It doesn't take an expert to figure this out.
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marine1942
09:26 PM on 11/22/2011
If you pay people not to work; if you give people food stamps, free housing, cell phones, transportation, clothing allowances you will never get them to produce. Obama is destroying USA
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
10:24 PM on 11/22/2011
ANd math seems to be lacking!

4 times as many seeking jobs as there are available jobs.

Do you understand the math?

Your comment is propaganda
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ryker88
Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.
12:10 PM on 11/23/2011
There are none so blind as those who will not see. They deny, deny, deny. They are selfish, greedy individuals who have not an iota of compassion in their bones. Yes, there are a few that abuse anything but the vast majority of the unemployed are looking for work, doing the best they can. The greedy paint the poor, the needy, and the unemployed with the brush of laziness to justify their ongoing selfishness.
Shesme
My micro-bio will no longer be silent
10:26 PM on 11/22/2011
Starving people don't produce much except corpses. Is that your jobs plan, picking up the bodies?
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marine1942
07:40 AM on 11/23/2011
At this time of year maybe you should review the colony in Plymouth. The colony was set up like communist but nobody worked. It was on the verge of stravation when the governor said " you want to eat, you will work" This has, and should not, change.
09:12 PM on 11/22/2011
Dear Friends,

Printing money and handing it out to people that have not worked for over 6 months does not help an economy. What these people need to do is go back to work and pay taxes, to reduce our deficit.

The federal government programs of giving out free money, has made us all poorer and hurt our economic growth.

It is time for every able body person to get a job if they want to eat, if they do not want to eat that is their choice.
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Scurvydog74
10:16 PM on 11/22/2011
It is not their choice if there are five unemployed persons for every job opening.
10:20 PM on 11/22/2011
Dear Scurvy,

We have 15M illegal aliens working in this nation, I would recommend they take one of these jobs.
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
10:26 PM on 11/22/2011
Facts
there are 4 times as many unemployed as available jobs.

Do you understand that?
10:31 PM on 11/22/2011
Dear Trepasky,

That is not true, as we have 15M illegal aliens working here because Americans refuse to do the work.

Do you understand that people right now are sneaking into this country and will have a job tomorrow?

While a native born american that went to the worlds most expensive educational system can not find a job?

How can that be?
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jcaunter
INTJ
08:46 PM on 11/22/2011
And I believe that pouring money on the criminals who destroyed the economy in 2007 is also bad for the economy. But that hasn't stopped Obama from doing that either.
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
10:26 PM on 11/22/2011
I believe TARP was a GW plan
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jcaunter
INTJ
03:36 AM on 11/23/2011
And I believe that not only did Obama lobby hard for TARP on the campaign trail, but also that I wasn't even referring to TARP in my original post.

Thanks for trying though.
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06:24 AM on 11/23/2011
I agree some what.
4000 OWs protesters have been arrested.
Not one person from the financial sector.Eric Holder is in a holding pattern on that.
Nothing for mortgage fraud.
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notdarkyet
End the Drug War.
08:33 PM on 11/22/2011
The AZ state legislature made sure no one in this state would get long term UE anyway by refusing to pass it, depriving the state economy of millions. Preview of what is probably going to happen in the next few weeks.
12:56 AM on 11/23/2011
Dark, sadly, I suspect you're right. The tax cuts come up for renewal or expiration about the same time as the vote on another unemployment Insurance extension. Wanta bet that the GOP will hold it hostage again? This time I suspect the extension may not pass, with or without the Democrats caving on the Bush tax cuts.
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Callyson
I don't reply to tedious haters and trolls
01:03 AM on 11/23/2011
Favorited to make up for the unnecessary flag on this comment (already a fan.)
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PotomacOracle
The Solution: MMT and HVPCS
08:32 PM on 11/22/2011
....."Some Republicans have indicated they could support extending the tax cut, but there would almost certainly be a fight over how to pay for it. Without spending cuts or other tax increases, renewing the Social Security tax cut would swell the deficit."....

Paying for this is simply a matter of finding courageous elected officials to ensure that the Federal Reserve will in accordance with Section 13(3); In unusual and exigent circumstances, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, by the affirmative vote of not less than five members, may authorize any Federal reserve bank, during such periods as the said board may determine, at rates established in accordance with the provisions of section 14, subdivision (d), of this Act, to discount for any participant in any program or facility with broad-based eligibility, notes, drafts, and bills of exchange when such notes, drafts, and bills of exchange are indorsed or otherwise secured to the satisfaction of the Federal Reserve bank:
Translation... the Fed can bail out anything and anyone.

America has a sovereign currency and can print as much as is needed. The constraint on inflation is the tax code. It serves as a stabilizer on aggregate demand. Otherwise, in our current situation with 20% un/under employment a strong Congress could force the Fed to issue interest free fiat currency to avoid both bumping up the debt ceiling and therefore, the deficit.
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TruelyFedUp
Ethics is nothing else than reverence for life.
08:53 PM on 11/23/2011
Good. So let's utilize the Kellog-Briand Pact of 1928 to get the existing government out of power and we can elect YOU to organize the economy. I will take care of appropriating land and resources to the people who are homeless, jobless and hungry and we will get them building eco villages on unused viable land so they are fed and housed or get them into foreclosed homes. And the rest of you guys on here can read the first two articles of this pact and realize that every war that America has participated in since the signing of this pact by President Herbert Hoover has been illegal. The Nuremburg Trials were based on the violation of this law. Every government official that approved war was in violation of this law. We can get rid of the existing government and start anew a government for the people and by the people.

"ARTICLE I
The High Contracting Parties solemly declare in the names of their respective peoples that they condemn recourse to war for the solution of international controversies, and renounce it, as an instrument of national policy in their relations with one another.

ARTICLE II
The High Contracting Parties agree that the settlement or solution of all disputes or conflicts of whatever nature or of whatever origin they may be, which may arise among them, shall never be sought except by pacific means." http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/kbpact.htm
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PotomacOracle
The Solution: MMT and HVPCS
10:41 PM on 11/23/2011
There's always a loophole. While Kellog-Briand established major principles for international relations among nations signing the Pact those same nations could wiggle out of the Pact using the follwing: The interdiction of aggressive war was confirmed and broadened by the United Nations Charter, which states in article 2, paragraph 4, that All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

As a consequence, since World War II, nations have had to invoke the right to self-defense or collective defense when using military action, and have also been prohibited from annexing territory by force.

The issue of legality depends on the justification for the interdiction.

When i control all the money, there won't be any for war. Simple case closed.
07:39 PM on 11/22/2011
Republicans want to pull the rug out from people that are struggling. At the same time they are pushing more tax cuts for the top 1%. These Republicans need to be voted out of office.

The Republican party has become the party of mean.

They call themselves religious "family values" Republicans but they skipped bible study when the lesson was to "take care of the least among us". These people are not religious and they have no values or ethics.
07:50 PM on 11/22/2011
Try reading the article... the Bush tax cuts have helped the middle class. And stop withthe Straw Man "party of mean" liberal ploys...
07:52 PM on 11/22/2011
The Bible saying "take care of the least among us" refers to individuals stepping up for their fellow man, not out of control cronyism- big government. Get your values straight confused soul.
01:04 AM on 11/23/2011
Oh, by all means, let's get rid of all the safety nets and let private charity fill the gaps.

Testimony of representatives of both public and private social programs testified before Congress a couple of months ago that they're only able to meet about 20% of the need out there - and that's WITH modest safety nets (that many people don't qualify for).

Do you have a plan for how charitable contributions will be increased enough to handle the need, or is your unspoken agenda that the poor and unemployed deserve to starve?
07:21 PM on 11/22/2011
This is really easy to understand. We are a consumption based economy. Someone needs to spend money. Unemployment benefits and the payroll tax savings this year are put back into economy for goods and services which at least maintains jobs. More money for the rich via tax cuts is typically saved or invested in the stock market, it's harder to prove this creates jobs. See related article on companies with hordes of cash buying back stock instead of hiring workers. My question to republicans is the bush tax cuts have now been in place for 10 years so where are the jobs? At least the poor and middle classes invest back into the economy!
07:48 PM on 11/22/2011
Uh... last three years I checked, your BO has been leading this downward spiral. Well downward to sensible, hard working Americans (53%) but not so to the OWS (99%) Besides, We kept hearing from the Left/MSM the Bush tax cuts were jut for the wealthy and the Right saying that wasn't so, that it targeted the 70% in the middle. Well, this article seems to prove the Republicans were speaking the truth and Democrats were lying and misleading us once again.
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08:32 PM on 11/22/2011
I do agree this whole tax the rich thing is kinda silly. The bush tax cuts were across the board the problem with bush tax is bush borrowed all the money pay for them. Government should tax at a rate that pays for what it spends. They shouldn't run around giving away tax cuts no matter what it does to the countries fiscal position.
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Scurvydog74
10:29 PM on 11/22/2011
The majority of dollars saved by tax cuts went to the people who rightfully pay the majority of the taxes. The 1%. The fact that they only pay 17% doesn't mean that they don't pay more dollars. The debate is over what percentage is fair. The Bush tax cuts for the middle class did not amount to anything close to Obama's payroll tax cut so don't get all right-wing riteous on us.
09:15 PM on 11/22/2011
Dear Matt,

No economy is a consumption based economy, unless you an Empire and force your colonies to give you stuff for free.

China has basically done this role for the last 20 years, but is game over now, we need to start producing what we consume, that means everybody has work if they want to eat.
09:32 PM on 11/22/2011
Mark, where and what were you educated in? Are you not aware that 3/4 of uSA GDP is consumer driven? This is a fact look it up. We build stuff and then we buy it. The reason our trade gap is so big is we bring in more crap than we sell internationally. I have an MBA in economics I'll debate you all night long. If you watch fox news then your conclusions don't shock me at all
01:09 AM on 11/23/2011
Are you seriously trying to say that economies are driven by SUPPLY?

70% of the US economy used to be driven by consumption, mostly by the middle class. Now that the middle class has been decimated, there's too little demand. Small businesses have had to close their doors for lack of customers, and all companies have excess capacity (averaging about 30%) because there are too few people who can afford to buy their goods and services.

I'd sure like to hear how you think the economy works if it's not consumption based. EVERY economy is consumption based, even China's, which depends on US consumption more than domestic consumption.