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RedneckDem
The top 1% stole my made in china bootstraps
01:16 PM on 03/21/2012
Whats all this nonsense economic talk? Rick Sanatarium said this ain't about the economy at all, it's about jebus.
01:21 PM on 03/21/2012
Oh! Okay. Now my concern is, does jebus love me? And, who told me so?
06:50 PM on 03/21/2012
you never had anything to steal -- pretty sure of that. no plan, no motivation, no anything -- who would want any of that?
oilfield
large employer per obamacare
01:14 PM on 03/21/2012
americas taxing model is broken....
we are taking too much from our citizens besides the things of value we get for our taxes.....roads, bridges, education etc.
03:26 PM on 03/21/2012
Right, but not enough from our corporations that prefer tax havens to taxes, loopholes to taxes, bankruptcies to taxes and the hedge funders who not only avoid taxes and job creation, they destroy companies that don't mind paying a fair share of taxes....
oilfield
large employer per obamacare
10:00 PM on 03/21/2012
america has a 35% rate that many american companies have to pay...the multinationals are the ones that get a pass.
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John Derrick
Integrity isn't a gift...it's a mindset!
01:02 PM on 03/21/2012
I agree with gomezrules; in that the Fed has outlived its contributory usefulness to our economy. Excessive spending by Washington has, and continues to plague our country. Obama's $1.3 Trillion proposed budget exemplifies this point. Obama care's hidden $1.3 Trillion in hidden costs further demonstrates that Washington is out of control. We cannot "spend" our way out of debt yet when Ryan presents an alternative of cutting $5.2Trillion of debt over 10 years, he's criticized for supporting the rich. I may have conservative beliefs but I am not in favor of any individual or company NOT doing their part in helping solve this problem. A simple solution has been long discussed but resisted by Washington that would be to overhaul the tax code. Impose a flat rate tax with no loopholes for the rich or corporations. Then to bring businesses back home; Washington should offer amnesty to bring money back to the U.S. but only if the money is invested in expanding jobs and production here at home (no stock buy-backs). Education should be privitazed to make schools and higher institutions of learning competitive. People and students will flock to where the learning and costs are efficient; it's a natural approach to resolving too much government intervention. But it will take government letting go of their "reach" upon our society, and herein lies the problem. The current "socialism" and intrusion into our liberties we observe today is not the answer.
oilfield
large employer per obamacare
01:15 PM on 03/21/2012
without the fed printing money, politicians cant "fix" things....
07:28 PM on 03/21/2012
Economics issues are far more complex than the fed printing money. Global competition, which the US essentially didn't have to worry about for the 20 years after WWll, is now a big factor among many other factors. Simply diminishing the money supply would not be a panacea.
07:24 PM on 03/21/2012
"A simple solution has been long discussed but resisted by Washington that would be to overhaul the tax code. Impose a flat rate tax with no loopholes for the rich or corporations." John Derrick

That would be a good start. I like the no loopholes idea. The Baltic states have a flat tax as do other countries. I understand that in Estonia, you can do your taxes on a return that is about the size of a post card. Have a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax#Countries_that_have_flat_tax_systems
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4eva
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01:02 PM on 03/21/2012
All this talk of recovery but no one ever asks: What are we recovering?

The economic system we had never made sense and was unsustainable from the get go.

An economy based on unsustainable levels of consumer spending, based on unsustainable levels of consumer debt, fed by unsustainable real estate valuation rise is ... well ... NOT SUSTAINABLE.

The perpetual growth model we've had for the last 30-40 years is NOT SUSTAINABLE.

So, why are we trying to 'recover' ourselves back into a fundementally unsustainable economic system ?
oilfield
large employer per obamacare
01:17 PM on 03/21/2012
good question, we have to recover to inflate the money to pay off the obligations in future near worthless dollars all the while complaining that companies dont pay enough to live.
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Brandon Baier
brandon_baier
01:20 PM on 03/21/2012
A very good question, I think I can answer some of it. What we are recovering is the notion of power, whether that notion is reality is irrelavent, at least for now. (that is we wont know how that economic power will revolve in he global market with the new players therein).
Why are we trying to save it, thats easy, because people are affraid of the unknown, and the only thing they do know if that we were the stroongest economic nation on the planet, and now we aren't. Strictly speaking no one knows what will work, there is no utopia after all.
I relish a new economic model, but lets face it, Rawl's goes a little over board, Nozicks does too, and the GOP think that prayers answer everything, while ascribing to Rand's egoism. We are trying to salvage this broken car, because we have no idea how to build a new one, a least not for less than we could repair this one. I hope my metaphor makes sense to someone other than me too. LOL, xD
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PalaceOfWisdom
Don't Sleep With Mean People
03:12 PM on 03/21/2012
We know that cutting military spending in half would have no negative impact in itself while freeing huge amounts of capital for constructive purposes. We know that at the height of American prosperity tax rates were far more progressive than they are today. We know that a consumer economy dependent on massive trade imbalances doesn't work, so we need to supply our own energy and products. We know that funneling all payments for healthcare through insurance companies has never cured one illness and only leaves us worse off, so a single payer system clearly makes more sense. It may not constitute an entire new economic model, but these changes would go a long way.
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humanbeing-rick
Born in the USA 1947
12:30 PM on 03/21/2012
It is self-evident that the American economic model is broken, and entrenched interests refuse to change, but only get worse. It is a self-feeding system of self-destruction fueled by our worst sins.

The "disconnect between what the stock market and the news media are saying about the economy and and how people actually feel about it." is one sign. It is a lot more than just "how we feel about it", it is more like a life and death struggle for millions of us.
11:54 AM on 03/21/2012
Yes, it's the economic model of the 1%, free market globalization, designed to enrich them and destroy us. It's working very well that way. Devaluation of our currency, welfare for corporations. top heavy federal government, falling wages, increasing taxation, that's what our economic model has brought us. What we have going on now is massive failure of all our key institutions, government, economy, education, health, home ownership, democracy, freedom, values. Everything is just a scam designed to sustain a bubble that is the illusion things are still working and will make a 'comeback'. We are looking at the rise of a fascist dictatorship and slavery, endless war, crippling taxation to support a huge bureaucracy that does nothing but create the need for more taxation. We are on life support as a society. Governed by propaganda and vulture capitalism, eating it's young and deleriously happy about it, as the 1% dive for the last of the lifeboats.
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hwteenstars
11:43 AM on 03/21/2012
Now that we are at 7 trillion dollars in near zero interest Fed loans to banks, plus the no strings attached, done overnight bailout while still, our erstwhile plutocrat Republican friends agitate for more budget busting tax cuts for themselves, less regulation on business and Wall Street so the "job creators" can trickle down their money manna to the jobless throng like Jesus feeding the multitude with but one loaf of bread; yes, it is apparent that they who have the gold make the rules and the rules keep them on top. It cannot be hidden that the wild speculation and lack of propriety with Real Estate loans by Wall Street and the banks was nothing less than an engineered crisis designed to crush the middle class by first inflating property values by allowing 20 to 30 percent yearly increases in home values with liar loans, dumping those securitized liar loans on the world with bogus bought bond ratings and then when the whole farcical edifice crumbled, handing off the debt to the American public via Fannie and Freddie into national debt. Even now the inflated property values they engendered are still being absorbed by the FIDC when the banks resell properties they don't own but have foreclosed upon to new suckers at the new "reduced" prices. It wasn't a recession, IT WAS A TOTAL COLLAPSE whose real cost was shifted to the public while the uber wealthy gamed away the wealth of the middle class into their pockets.
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Brandon Baier
brandon_baier
12:51 PM on 03/21/2012
WELL SAID GOOD SIR!!!
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4eva
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01:03 PM on 03/21/2012
Who voted for the the bailouts?

Otherwise, good post.
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EdCorner
Lifelong Democrat..... until the bailouts.
11:22 AM on 03/21/2012
The metrics used to measure the economy are all skewed to make things appear better than they really are. The core CPI index, a measure of inflation, doesn't take into account the cost of food and energy ! Bernanke says the Fed Reserve will increase inflation over the next 20 years.

" In effect, the Fed has announced a course of action that will steal — there is no better word for it — nearly 10 percent of the value of Americans’ hard earned savings over the next 4 years."

The unemployment rate is also bogus. What the government has done is removed 9 million people from the rolls as "unemployable" and since 2007 this tactic of removing the unemployed from the official measures makes it appear the unemployment rate is less than what it actually is. It's actually about 20%.

" When we pierce through this statistical smoke and mirrors and factor back in those 9 million jobless whom the government has defined out of existence, then the true unemployment rate is 19.9% and rising, and not 8.3% and falling."

danielamerman.com/articles/2012/WorkC.html
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Brandon Baier
brandon_baier
12:59 PM on 03/21/2012
Ok so here is what put the nail in the GOP coffin when they start running off like this... if the rich are the JOB CREATORS, and the unemployment isn't really falling, THEN WHERE ARE THE JOBS?!?!?
If these statistics are wrong, then why hasn't the GOP done something to help it, I know I know, they pushed the outsourcing tax cuts, sell our oil over seas, and want to take away education... EXACTLY what amoung those major political platform policies do you find aid Americans at finding, holding, and maintaining a Job? If the outsourcing line is followed the jobs are in other countries, not here. They say they wanted the oil from keystone, except when dems said, "Ok we will give you the Pipeline, but the oil stays in America." the GOP changed there minds, while blaiming the affair on Obama, because he wanted the oil and the GOP wanted Big Oil revenues. As for educaton, well, I guess if we only want to hire foolish drones that have no capacity for problem solving or math or science thats a great idea... I know I know, dont confuse you with the facts right?
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EdCorner
Lifelong Democrat..... until the bailouts.
01:30 PM on 03/21/2012
wth are you talking about? Do you know anything at all about toxic tar sands oil and Keystone? Or the route over the Ogallala aquifer that supplies 8 states with water for agriculture and livestock? Did you know that tar sands oil is heavier than water and can't be cleaned up? Check out the tar sands spill on the Kalamzoo river that even 40 miles of residents on the river can't go near.
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PalaceOfWisdom
Don't Sleep With Mean People
03:24 PM on 03/21/2012
"I guess if we only want to hire foolish drones that have no capacity for problem solving or math or science"

I firmly believe that is exactly what the 1% have in store for us. They will be glad to create millions of jobs in America... as soon as conditions are comparable to China.
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Brandon Baier
brandon_baier
01:09 PM on 03/21/2012
ALL the below being said, I do agree there is demogaugery and manipulation in the numbers, but I want to be clear, the so-called "Job Creators do not need the President to say it is ok to hire more people. The Job Creators, at this point, are intentionally NOT HIRING and creating jobs for a political ploy, thats the ONLY thing you are prooving, if your argument is accurate, that while the dems want to ceate government jobs, the GOP is saying NO NO NO, while the Job Creators wont make jobs, so they can blame it on Obama.
If you really want people working, so that everyone can pay taxes, and we can add revenue across the board, why does it matter who employs them, because you dont want to pay more taxes, this is a funny thing here in tucson. I'll tell you why, because in this Conservative state, everyone is paying lower taxes, and whining about how our streets are falling apart, about how we cant pay for our teachers, and about how we dont have enough police in a country that has the highest prison population in the world, you all realize taxes pay for these things right? You all realize that even private prisons are paid with tax dollars right? have any of you even thought all this through, or did you just decide the dems were wrng without looking at the fundamentals of what taxes do and pay for?
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PalaceOfWisdom
Don't Sleep With Mean People
03:28 PM on 03/21/2012
I agree with your outlook, but Dems voted to extend tax cuts for the rich under a flimsy excuse, and they'll do it again late this year. They have the right rhetoric but no intention of acting on it. They'd rather jockey for position at the corporate trough.
11:17 AM on 03/21/2012
The US ecocnomy is broken, seriously broken. Why? One principle reason is that it is now policy to reward incompetence and illegalitites, promote mediocrity and (still worse) to punish successful, educated and experienced people for actaully being gogod at what they do through forced lay offs and outright firings. A smattering of competence overwhelmed by the average and the connected is left behind. So much for quality, So much for innovation and competence. So much for working hard to get above the tide. I know hundreds of people who, after decades of good work delivering massive profits and good to their employers, were "rewarded" with layoffs. Now, they can't get the time of day from corporate America. Why? The republicans blame THEM (of all people) for causing the economic that the republicans in fact created. And the republicans have convinced many no talent average Americans that they deserve to be kept in jobs that are way way over their heads. And the GOP has fearmongered the rest of what's left into complete silence for fear of losing everything thay spent a lifetime building. There will be a comeupppance for this travesty and the price will be huge.
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PalaceOfWisdom
Don't Sleep With Mean People
03:31 PM on 03/21/2012
I work for the City of Chicago, a place completely dominated by Democrats, and I was nodding throughout the first half of your comment. Nepotism and patronage are not a GOP construct and won't lessen by voting blue.
01:44 PM on 03/22/2012
A republican working....hard to believe...can I have a picture? From what I see all you guys do is count your daddy's or your grandaddy's money and screw anyone who interferes with yor "birthright."
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JDLA
Your bills are not the government's responsibility
10:53 AM on 03/21/2012
What seems to have changed is the easy access to credit that most Americans and businesses had during the boom years.
The good times were exaggerated by peoples ability to live beyond their means while continually rolling over their debt into tidier yet larger piles.
This also fueled a false business expansion as consumers ate up more product than reality dictated and business could borrow money at will.
I truly believe the level of activity we now have is closer to reality than what we saw in the 90's and earlier 2000's.
It no longer is build it and they will come, we now have to actually gauge our markets and wait for the customer , then build it. Gotta be smarter and work harder.
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PalaceOfWisdom
Don't Sleep With Mean People
03:34 PM on 03/21/2012
Fair wages and responsible government spending (read: public works good, wars of choice bad) would do a lot to turn things around. We would still have a huge task bringing good manufacturing jobs back, but addressing today's grossly unfair pay scale would help.
05:51 PM on 03/21/2012
Manufcaturing jobs are NOT coming back here (or even being promoted here) so long as rich@ssholes can make an extra penny or two by screwing the rest of us in keeping them out of the country. Give the rich a choice: either keep the jobs here or be taxed to death when they are sent offshore. Guess which one they'll choose???
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builderman55
Featherless Biped
10:31 AM on 03/21/2012
Let's see: we are a nation of 300,000,000 people. 3 million people, or 1% of the population "earn" 25% of the nation's entire national income, and own 45% of the nation's entire wealth. We have one political party single-mindlessly devoted to making them even richer and declaring war on the middle and lower classes. We have a Supreme Court devoted to turning what is left of our Democracy into a Plutocracy. We declare unnecessary and probably illegal wars on other countries based on cooked intelligence that serves to damage our international reputation and bankrupt us. It is getting costlier to get a college education, the single most important step in transcending class and racial boundaries. What's not to love....?
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John Derrick
Integrity isn't a gift...it's a mindset!
10:23 AM on 03/21/2012
No, I don't think the "model" is broken; rather I believe there is NO model. It's more an experiment that has gone wrong. America had a model years ago that Washington chose to "tinker" with making it an experiment rather than a model. Washington avoids passing a "real-world" budget and is spending all over the globe looking to make up their "short-fall" by raising taxes. If this is a "MODEL" then I'm Tim Conway... A "MODEL" is that which is proven over time...and this isn't what voyage we are currently on.
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10:04 AM on 03/21/2012
Capitalism doesn't work. It leads to outrageous greed. All an intelligent being needs to do is read the reports to know that when the disparity between rich and poor gets too high, the society fails. f course, the media is unwilling to discuss the system. After all, it's in on the rape of the usa by rich, special interests. Capitalism has little to do with democracy. Corporations are fascist organizations, dictated from the top down (which is why, incidentally, a man like Romney is unqualified to lead a democratic government).
09:54 AM on 03/21/2012
There are economic systems and political systems. Political systems drive economic systems. When people understand the difference between the political systems and the economic systems then they run the right system. When people understand the difference between an oligarchy and socialism and democracy then the economic system of capitolism runs a program that drives the political system they want. If people are so stupid that they allow the oligarchs to run(ruin) our democracy, then they deserve what they get. Money(economic) is math! Do the math.
The math:
oligarchy: Holds the 2% can hold 98% of the weath 98% of the time.
socialist : Holds that 100% can hold 100% of the wealth 100% of the time.
democratics: holds that 2/3 majority(66.6%)can hold 66.6% of the wealth 66.6%of the time and there is nothing wrong with taking it from the oligarchs and giving benefits 100% of the people monetary benefits such as libraries,firemen, police, heathcare etc to level it all out in a democracy because that is the way it is in a democracy. So when the oligarchs hire the Republicans to scream "socialism" just smile and understand thats the way a democracy works. Oligarchs are all the time holding 98% of the wealth and now is the time to move some assest!
09:22 AM on 03/21/2012
The current model depends on "growth". There isn't any growth nor will there be any, however. The average American family size has decreased to 1.5 per household, not enough to even maintain current levels. Families are having fewer children, who are now a burden at about $250,000 each to age 18, as population has moved to urban areas. There is a "greying" of America with the largest sector to be of retirement age with few left to supply the money for those social security checks. If you are counting on "growth" to fix the wagon, it ain't gonna happen.
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11:34 AM on 03/21/2012
Immigration is also declining...

http://www.cfr.org/us-election-2012/illegal-immigration-2012-campaign/p27394
Illegal Immigration and the 2012 Campaign

"...For over a decade, Mexicans have represented roughly a third of all U.S.-bound migrants. In the mid-2000s roughly half a million Mexicans joined the U.S. population each year (fairly evenly divided between legal and illegal entries). But since then, migration from our southern neighbor has declined greatly, to the point that in 2011 net inflows neared zero. The change isn't only happening with Mexican migrants. Inflows from other countries such as China, and the Philipines show declines as well.

Many factors are behind this shift. One is economic - the downturn in the U.S. economy and economic resilience in other places has altered the cost-benefit analysis of leaving home. Particularly in countries such as China, India, Korea, and Brazil, anecdotal evidence suggests that economic growth is luring back migrants, who bring with them new skills and resources.

The decline in migration also comes in part from increased border enforcement. Since 2004, the border patrol has doubled to some 20,000 strong, with annual budget outlays reaching nearly $3.5 billion. The increased manpower have made at least some immigrants think twice about facing the mortal danger of crossing through the desert..."
11:57 AM on 03/21/2012
Legal immigrants generally have job skills, education and enough money to not be a burden on the social safety net. None of those things apply to illegal aliens. What we don't need is millions of new clients at the welfare office.