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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Hacim Obmed
04:56 PM on 04/03/2012
So far the spin and hype around this story is the only real story. Everyone seems to have an agenda and they will select the facts and ignore any evidence that doesn't fit. We need to put aside the question of "stand your ground" laws. They may be good or bad but we don't even actually know what happened and if these laws have any relevance. We also need to stop with the arguments about the 2nd amendment rights and the validity of concealed carry laws and neighborhood watch organizations. We also need to forget about the effect of violence in the movies and TV crime shows until we know the facts. As to the race thing, there again, race is an important question in our society and it might be relevant to our understanding of this incident but we just don't know yet. The critical thing before people go off half cocked and start screaming for blood is to know is who attacked who. Was the shooting justified self defense or was it murder. Was it Zimmerman stalking up on Trayvon and shooting him for little or not reason or did Trayvon attack Zimmerman from behind and knock him down and cause bodily harm and so forth. It seems there are witnesses and there is physical evidence that can clarify these central issues. There was no crime if it happened the way Zimmerman claims. On the other hand if Zimmerman is lying then he is going down hard.
06:57 PM on 04/03/2012
Amen
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WELLS35
03:09 AM on 04/04/2012
There are just too many inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story. I will be glad for it to get to court so we can get the complete story.
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04:11 PM on 04/03/2012
It was racism that allowed for Trayvon to be called "suspicious", it was racism that made the Sanford police treat the whole thing casually, and that is the same racism that warps peoples view so that they defend a man who killed a teenager walking home from a store.

Institutional racism is real, despite what right wing white people might like to think. I'm not sure why they think they would know, anyway.
06:30 PM on 04/03/2012
Oh get real , it was reverse racism that tried to paint a lie about travins past, it was reverse racism that would only show a 5 year old picture of travon !!!
06:43 PM on 04/03/2012
Here is the question that needs to be answered. During Zimmerman's neighborhood patrols did he ever confront other black teens? If so, did he ever have to pull out his gun? If the answer to those questions are no then could it be possible that Zimmerman judged Trayvon by the criteria Rev. King asked him to, the content of Trayvon's character?

How do you think Trayvon judged Zimmerman before beating him that night? Skin color or character?

What have you done to eliminate institutional racism in the black community? When was the last time you judged a white person by the content of their character and not the color of their skin? Do demand what you are unwilling to practice.

BTW - Are you saying the on right wing white people are racists? If so please research what party was responsible for most of the racist hate in this country from 1850-1970. If you do you'll find out why MLK was a Republican.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WELLS35
03:11 AM on 04/04/2012
I think Trayvon defended himself against Zimmerman's assault.
03:20 PM on 04/03/2012
The problem I have with the story that Martin attacked Zimmerman as he was going to his car is that Marin was already afraid and trying to get away from Zimmerman. If Zimmermann was going to his car Martin would have felt relief and would have gone home. That story has a false ring to it.
05:13 PM on 04/03/2012
So how do you explain all the injuries to Zimmerman and no injuries to Martin?
06:31 PM on 04/03/2012
If you are winning a fight you usually don't receive injuries 0_o
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dario Alvarez
02:54 PM on 04/04/2012
*had NO right.
05:52 PM on 04/03/2012
The going back to the car story is put the fault on Trayvon. I dont believe it.
01:11 PM on 04/03/2012
Sorry, that's disinformation. If you listen to ALL of the tapes, you will notice that the screaming stops after the loud gunshot. What you have on your tape came earlier, and may or may not be a gunshot. BTW, the police say there was only one gunshot, and the noise you analyzed was not it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Veeve
Biochem/Psych/Hist/Econ/Techie
12:15 PM on 04/03/2012
No, in fact, we are not seeing what Trayvon Martin means.

First off, as an attorney, how do you square an individual leaving the security of their home or vehicle with a loaded firearm, stalking an individual, instigating a confrontation and then shooting that person, self defense??

Self defense should be precluded once Zimmerman left his vehicle and started stalking Martin. In any reasonable society, this is common sense. If this is not the state of the Florida statute, then of course, it must be struck down.

Secondly, if an armed stranger started following me and I'm a 21 year old African American man in Florida lawfully carrying a firearm, and they instigate a confrontation, if the other person is white, I'm getting charged with capital murder. If you doubt that, you aren't being honest.

Finally, the only people who are seeing what Trayvon Martin means are people who already knew about the unequal protection under the law afforded to ethnic minorities in the United States. The remaining folks, namely right wing, Caucasian Americans (by international standards right wing would apply to about 2/3rds of white Americans) don't care, don't believe there are any inequities or secretly approve when young men of color are made to suffer. They don't care. They don't empathize with Martin and Fulton. They are convinced that the young high school student with no record must've been the aggressor even though Zimmerman has 4 arrest, 3 of them violent.
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simsum
have Trek will travel
01:29 PM on 04/03/2012
Very well said.
02:19 PM on 04/03/2012
Veeve says: "First off, as an attorney, how do you square an individual leaving the security of their home or vehicle with a loaded firearm, stalking an individual, instigating a confrontation and then shooting that person, self defense??"

Can you provide links to any official evidence that indicate that the February 26 incident occurred in the manner and order that you described? Did you read the police reports and listen to the 911 calls? Are you familiar with Florida's "Stand Your Ground Law" ?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Veeve
Biochem/Psych/Hist/Econ/Techie
02:34 PM on 04/03/2012
None of that is in dispute. Yes I am quite familiar with everything public and some things not so public about this case and I have read the Stand Your Ground statute.
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04:06 PM on 04/03/2012
Zimmerman obviously had to get out of his vehicle at some point for there to be a confrontation. If he had stayed inside his vehicle the whole time there is simply no way that anything could have happened. His fault.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Njeanous
12:08 PM on 04/03/2012
Race may not have been a factor in the Trayvon Martin case, that being said there is something immoral, illegal and or ungodly going on in Florida. Casey Anthony’s acquittal, Trayvon Martin’s murder, George Bush’s election, the gun laws esp. Stand Your Ground Law free for all, and Marco Rubio’s lies about his heritage. What kind of place is Florida really? Anyone of these things can happen elsewhere, but all of them in one place?
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simsum
have Trek will travel
01:32 PM on 04/03/2012
Insightful observation. I would add to the list the vast environmental destruction because of overdevelopment. The cultural blight that is Disney World. The clustering of organized crime. My guess is that Florida concentrates negativity because it combines the backwardness of the south with jet-set wealth, which has been magnified by the drug trade.
11:37 PM on 04/03/2012
Ah, it's all George Bush's fault.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WELLS35
03:17 AM on 04/04/2012
Jeb Bush signed the Stand Your Ground law. Think how much better off Florida citizens (and Trayvon) would be if he had not signed the law.
12:04 PM on 04/03/2012
A Doug Carner enhanced the Zimmerman video showing lumps on the back of his head. My theory is that after martin pounced on Zimmerman and they were on the ground with martin on top (as per witness) , Zimmerman pulled out weapon. Martin grabbed gun and they fought over it. When the tide started to turn in Zimmermans favor, Martin started to scream cause he saw death at his door. If Zimmerman walks he will be rich after he sues rev jessica, fat mouth al, the pink panthers, dull spike lee, and the naacp pee.
12:39 PM on 04/03/2012
My guess is Zimmerman had his gun out when he approached the boy. That's what started the fight. A lot of bald men have marking on their heads. Why are the lumps on the top of Zimmerman head more than they are on the back of his head. FBI has boots on the ground now. A lot of people who have been lying to media are going to correct their stories when interviewed by FBI.
04:23 PM on 04/03/2012
We are all speculating. Yes, when/if/or not this goes to trial we will see a clearer picture when this is over and not before.
06:38 PM on 04/03/2012
Zimmerman knew stand your ground backwards and forwards he would have known that displaying a gun while walking up would be a crime
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
toastedink
12:58 PM on 04/03/2012
No the point is Zimmerman didn't follow instructions, left his vehicle and pursued Martin. Yeah, they may have gotten into a fight... but somehow I doubt any of us wouldn't have fought for our lives once we saw that the other person had a gun.
04:29 PM on 04/03/2012
The dispatcher told him, "you do not have to do that", meaning follow Martin. The thing is a dispatcher did not directly tell him "do not follow him". Also a dispatcher is not a police officer.
09:41 PM on 04/03/2012
Instructions? Listen again, gumbie.
11:53 AM on 04/03/2012
I really think this all boils down to "he started it." ie Zimmerman. Sorry but you can't go chasing after someone and not expect a fight. If he didn't want one, he should have stayed in his car and let the police handle it. this case is so infuriating!
06:38 PM on 04/03/2012
Yes you can
09:42 PM on 04/03/2012
You most certainly can follow someone. This is still America.

If Trayvor felt 'threatened', he should have called the police.

I guess all those wildings and flash mobs gave him a false sense of security. Not all 'whiteys' go unarmed.
11:29 AM on 04/03/2012
For anyone that is interested....
I am an audio guy..

I took the 911 call with the most audio informatiion regarding screams, compressed it, ran it at half speed and pitch corected it 100 percent.. even though it runs slower (just a tenth over half speed) anyone with an ear for music can tell not a note has been changed.. Digital affords you this luxury. In the analog days we had to physically slow the tape/medium down and you lose pitch and clarity.

Anyway, what I find most interesting is the ghastly scream at about 1:12 right after the final shot.\.

THIS AUDIO IS NOT ENHANCED per sey.. not like enhancing a photo.. the only enhancing has been to adust volume levels so you don't hurt your ear listening to everything at relative volume levels.

There are a few swirling artifacts in this copy because I had to compres the wav file to a 128 kbps mp3 to fit on my page so you had a player to hear it on.. These artifacts are slight and will not distract.

The 911 call as you have never heard it before, draw your own conclusions. Listen for the scream after the shot.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11548279

Again, draw your own conclusions, exercise is just a way to access the call and hear things you would not of just listening to the raw recording.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MadJayhawk
02:45 AM on 04/04/2012
Thanks for the information. A good mystery.

I listened to it several times and couldn't come to any conclusions about who screamed since I don't know their voices. It is hard to tell what was going on. Was there screaming going on throughout the tape?

This will be an important piece of evidence. One thing that I can guess is that the two people were relatively close together. If Martin was shot as he was moving away from Zimmerman or they were far apart then Zimmerman would be guilty of murder, in my opinion. There are a bunch of scenarios that could explain the screams on the tape.

I will listen to them again with idea of trying to figure why someone was screaming that way, forgetting for a second who was doing the screaming.
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Debanne
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
09:36 PM on 04/04/2012
That was Trayvon Martin screaming for his life in the 911 call. No doubt about that. It does not take an expert or a slowed down recording to know who's shouting.