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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
CheapTrick
Them or Us.
01:22 AM on 04/13/2012
It's kinda fun to watch them try to control the instead that they created, isn't it?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Quislet
It is a good day. I woke up breathing.
12:47 AM on 04/13/2012
"In the California 'Prop 8' case," the op-ed explained, Blankenhorn "felt that he could testify on behalf of traditional man-woman marriage in good conscience, in part because California some time ago passed domestic partnership legislation to extend legal recognition to same-sex couples."

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and swims like a duck, why call it a civil union?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
talkstocoyotes
01:55 PM on 04/13/2012
**If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and swims like a duck, why call it a civil union? **

To underscore the point that the distinction singles out gay men and lesbians as second-class citizens. That's why many people, here and elsewhere, make some jaw-droppingly ignorant and bigoted statements about gays but assure one and all that 'I'm in favor of civil unions.'
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Quislet
It is a good day. I woke up breathing.
07:28 PM on 04/13/2012
I think that the majority of people who favored civil unions 5 years ago are now in support of marriage equality. And the majority of people who presently say they are for civil unions but not marriage would have not wanted either 5 years ago.
09:03 PM on 04/15/2012
**If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and swims like a duck, why call it a civil union? **

A goose kind of looks like a duck, it swims like a duck, however, that does not make it a duck.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Quislet
It is a good day. I woke up breathing.
12:39 AM on 04/13/2012
"Blankenhorn noted in the opinion piece that North Carolina's proposal would 'convince people that the real agenda of marriage advocates is not protecting marriage, but ignoring and ostracizing gay people.' "

What exactly are they protecting marriage from if not gay couples? They always trot out statements about "protecting marriage", but are lacking in the specifics of exactly how marriage will be harmed by gay couples getting married.
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Valksy
civis mundi sum
04:39 AM on 04/13/2012
No one has ever offered a legitimate cogent secular argument against marriage equality, nor have they ever been able to prove the harm they claim. It's nothing but a lie.

And look up Blankenhorn, look at how his credentials and academic record was ripped apart during the Prop H8 trial. He isn't the expert he wants everyone to believe he is, and he was dumb enough to get up on the stand and be exposed.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
09:39 AM on 04/16/2012
Yeah, isn't he the reason they weren't able to release the video, since his look was even worse than the transcript?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Peacockjp
Art Washes away the dust of every day life-Picasso
08:35 PM on 04/16/2012
It's amazing how some so-called experts - come to believe their own drivel.
11:40 PM on 04/12/2012
"If you want to understand why young people increasingly and dramatically support same-sex marriage, I think, it's because they see the ugliness of bigotry in this debate and are repelled."

Age doesn't matter in seeing her disgusting bigotry: it's obvious to anybody with frontal lobes.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carla van der Meer
in scientia opportunatis
11:12 PM on 04/12/2012
I would very much like a coherent , logical explanation as to how a loving same sex couple getting married in any way harms these people or the institution itself. So far all you hear is fear and hate filled rhetoric, and how God told them something or other. Most of the behavior displayed by these people is detrimental to Christianity, and yet no one is stopping them.
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Valksy
civis mundi sum
04:40 AM on 04/13/2012
There just isn't one. The bigots will spout the harm meme and assume people will believe them, but when challenged to do so in court under oath, all but Blankenhorn clammed up - and Blankenhorn was debunked as a phoney.

It's all just rhetoric, there isn't one single ounce of truth to any of it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carla van der Meer
in scientia opportunatis
10:59 PM on 04/12/2012
If these pro marriage people want to protect marriage, why not go protest the Kim K's of the world, who are making a mockery of the institution?
11:43 PM on 04/12/2012
Exactly, CVDM. They are hypocritical liars. They have no interest in defending the sanctity of marriage. They do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to delegalize divorce. They don't even criticize people who marry for a minute (out of poor judgement, for example) or for reasons other than love. They are most pathetic, though, in their inability to self-refelct enough to recognize their publicly obvious motivations. This is exactly what heterosexism looks like.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carla van der Meer
in scientia opportunatis
12:06 AM on 04/13/2012
Another area of 'bad marriage' where these groups are slipping is Las Vegas. Falling down drunks getting married by alien Elvises (?) at drive thru windows at 3 am? Where is their blessed sanctity there, I ask you?
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Razzer
"Grandfathered in?" Try: integrity, honor, instead
10:40 PM on 04/12/2012
We truly live in the dark ages, when some can declare: no marriage and no civil unions for a generation of committed, loving people.

I truly believe the next generation will reverse the outrage. What a societal waste, having to wait for that to happen.

How does forbidding the benefit of recognized families and marriages, help anyone but a small-minded few?

In a prior generation, many refused to allow interracial marriages. What good did that serve?
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MaxHeadroom
Beer - Helping white guys dance since 1842.
10:14 PM on 04/12/2012
It also affects domestic violence and the victims of such violence in seeking protection for their abusers.

How "Christian" is that?

Not very.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ESerafina42
Abandoned by wolves, raised by Republicans.
09:22 PM on 04/12/2012
"Blankenhorn noted in the opinion piece that North Carolina's proposal would 'convince people that the real agenda of marriage advocates is not protecting marriage, but ignoring and ostracizing gay people.'"
___

Maybe because the real agenda of "marriage advocates" is not protecting marriage, but ignoring and ostracizing gay people.
09:57 PM on 04/12/2012
No kidding. Who knew? The religious right is no more interested in "protecting marriage" than they were in "protecting the military" by keeping anti-gay prejudice alive in that institution. They're interested in maintaining anti-gay bigotry and toward that end are determined to stop every and any law that indicates gay people deserve an ounce of respect. That's what it's really all about, obviously.
11:45 PM on 04/12/2012
Thank goodness they're slowly-but-surely failing, JohnJames.
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Razzer
"Grandfathered in?" Try: integrity, honor, instead
10:41 PM on 04/12/2012
Might convince some, that they were ignoring and ostracizing? Heck. They had me at "hello."
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FantasticFourFan
Fred Phelps represents all gay marriage opponents
09:21 PM on 04/12/2012
In other words, he realizes their side is losing in the long term and wants to stay relevant. At least pretending that they care about gay people gives them the opportunity to do that.
10:07 PM on 04/12/2012
Unfortunately for them they're then left with having to demonstrate exactly how full gay legal equality hurts anyone in practical terms and, day by day, year by year, the states where it has been achieved are proving that it does not. The horse has already left the barn for those who've abandoned blind religion as their bulwark against gay equality.
06:31 AM on 04/13/2012
Don't push your luck to far. It is only the law protecting the gays. Other wise you would all be in hiding.
pbrunda
Learning every step of the journey.
09:14 PM on 04/12/2012
What kind of Americans think like this? As a native of NYC, we've stood taller than anywhere else in this country when its liberty was challenged by terrorists. And that liberty belongs to every one of us. It didn't seem to matter what anyone's sexual orientation was on 9/11. We all met that on equal ground, side by side, hand in hand as we searched for loved ones, straight, gay, it didn't matter. We grieved, cried, and persevered...together...equally. I don't recall anyone asking about the sexual orientation of the firefighters, or emergency personnel, many of whom gave their lives for liberty and fellow Americans. I don't recall anyone asking about the sexual orientation of the people who courageously led others out of the WTC or throught the streets of Manhattan, or of those who formed a flotilla of private vessels to help evacuate others. I don't recall any criteria, or need for different labels based on sexual orientation for heroes of all kinds, Iron Workers, medical personnel, ordinary extraordinary New Yorkers who stepped up and helped whoever needed it in whatever way they could.
There was no concern on that day, or the ones after it. We were all in it together.
So tell me, is it really such an important thing after all? We're all equal. Didn't these people learn anything that day?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ReverendMilo
My micro-bio will not meet your guidelines
09:57 PM on 04/12/2012
To answer your final question, nope they are low effort thinkers - learning, growing, and understanding things is not in their wheelhouse. F&f when not mobile.
09:05 PM on 04/12/2012
I apologize to the author of the following-- I have simply lost the link.

"Marriage" isn't about children.
You can have children and not be married.
You can be married and not have children.

"Marriage" isn't about religion.
You can be religious and not be married.
You can be married and not be religious.

"Marriage" isn't about vows.
You can make vows without being married.
You can be married without vows, only an affirmatio­n; "I do".

"Marriage" isn't about rings.
You can wear rings without being married.
You can be married without exchanging rings.

Supporters and non-suppor­ters both need to learn what marriage ISN'T before trying to argue what it IS. 

Marriage is legally only about property, citizenshi­p, kinship, and inheritanc­e. The marriage license is an applicatio­n for benefits granted a specific class of people by the State. All arguments about love, romance, reproducti­on, religious dogma, tradition and family values are about what we ASSOCIATE with the legal fiction called marriage. They are not the marriage itself.

Denying anyone benefits granted others on the basis of their sexual orientatio­n is ridiculous­. Denying gays benefits because they offend religious sensibilit­ies is no more valid than denying religious people the same benefits because I am offended by their sensibilit­ies."
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
09:33 PM on 04/12/2012
Exactly. My spouse and I love each other, but the ONLY reason we got married was for the health insurance. And LGBT citizens of this country should be able to have the same rights the rest of us do to get married for whatever reason we choose.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TripkidNC
Workin' on my bucket list
10:15 PM on 04/12/2012
Nicely put. People get married for myriad reasons that are no one else's business. I'm not sure why governments are in the marriage business at all. It seems to me, 2 consenting adults should be able to join as a family unit through a civil union. I think marriage should be left to religions who can determine their own criteria. Legal issues should be based on the civil union, moral issues by religion.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
10:54 PM on 04/12/2012
I disagree with your separate but equal suggestion - the word "marriage" does not belong just to the religious. And different words - marriage versus civil unions suggests different statuses. Which is ridiculous. And, as people have repeatedly stated - separate but equal is never really equal. I'm heterosexual but not even remotely religious. We got married in a civil marriage ceremony. No one has ever referred to us as anything but married. To do so now because certain religious types (so-called "christians") want to deny the use of a word they don't have the sole right to just because they dislike certain people is patently absurd.
11:09 PM on 04/12/2012
Unfortunately, based on observation, I can't really believe that religion is truly capable of making proper moral decisions-- e.g., the origin of this current thread.
08:56 PM on 04/12/2012
So the move to ban same sex marriage might "convince people that the real agenda of marriage advocates is not protecting marriage, but ignoring and ostracizing gay people."

Odd how few laws and initiatives have been launched over the years to protect marriage by making it illegal for straight couples to shack up. Probably just a weird coincidence.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ESerafina42
Abandoned by wolves, raised by Republicans.
09:23 PM on 04/12/2012
Or divorce for any but the most serious reasons. Britney Spears and Kim Kardashian and your erstwhile spouses, I'm talking to YOU.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TripkidNC
Workin' on my bucket list
10:25 PM on 04/12/2012
You wouldn't believe it, but NC has only recently removed prohibition of cohabitation laws from its books. 4 states still have these laws: Florida, Mississippi, Virginia and Michigan. I'm thinking they don't get enforced much.
08:50 PM on 04/12/2012
It is amazing to see how many VOTE AGAINST signs there are in Chapel Hill and Durham in peoples yards.
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MaxHeadroom
Beer - Helping white guys dance since 1842.
10:15 PM on 04/12/2012
Talk it up as NC must not go back to the 8th century.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
free willy
08:49 PM on 04/12/2012
Repubs old motto: Don't tread on me.

Repubs new motto: Don't tread on me unless I am the one doing the treading
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Gay Pagan Man, Living Happily With Husband
09:10 PM on 04/12/2012
No more like: Don't tread on me. I'm the one who gets to tread.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ReverendMilo
My micro-bio will not meet your guidelines
09:58 PM on 04/12/2012
Actually its "don't tread on me even if im trying to trample on others rights"