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12:12 PM on 06/09/2012
spain has been in trouble for a long time. unemployment was high when the world was booming. This is a example of the people being dependent on the state. Progressive ideas at their best?
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RichardinJax
Vote for Soup the Cat
12:22 PM on 06/09/2012
I wonder if you know how idiotic your remarks sound to those that actually have a knowledge of this subject? During the boom you speak of Spain had a conservative coalition in power.

Try this. GO there. Learn a bit. Then run your mouth. Currently the entire European Union is experimenting in conservative management of their crises. It is not working at all. Hence the French elections.

Like I said go there. Learn a bit.
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GravitonX
10^300 bosons could care less.
12:33 PM on 06/09/2012
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Spain was one of the best economies in the EU before the currency crisis.
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Planarama
Common sense will one day prevail.
12:03 PM on 06/09/2012
The private sector has bankrupted the world's governments. Now the government can't bail out the economy.

We need a Keynesian style plan but on a G20 scale but who can pay for it if all the governments are broke? It's a dilly of a pickle.

China may have to spend some of it's cash to save the world. That would certainly cement global economic superpower status.
12:10 PM on 06/09/2012
Oh, the private sector did this? Try explaining that ridiculous claim.
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TAIsabel
Suffer no fools.
01:24 PM on 06/09/2012
Good grief!
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Planarama
Common sense will one day prevail.
01:30 PM on 06/09/2012
Yup. By promoting a policy of globalization and trade liberalization without ensuring that labour regulations and pay were somewhat similar, economics became a race to the bottom.

The nations with the lowest wages and most lax regulations win at the cost of the average citizen. In the effort to attract trans-national investment dollars, governments have lowered taxes on big business and, at the same time, spent tax payer dollars on entering into contracts with those very same companies. Big business has manipulated the governmental process since Reagan to pay less into the system and get a lot more out of it.

Now, because of the private sector's rampant speculation, the economy needs the government to spend, but because of the tax cuts for business, the government is broke.

That's how I explain my ridiculous claim.
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lokitheviking
Sportin'Life sez It Ain't Necessarily So
12:34 PM on 06/09/2012
Decision time for China and the Saudis. Do they want customers to be able to buy the stuff and oil with cash or more credit. Also for the 1% wealth junkies busy playing casino games. Trillions exchanged every day in equities, bonds and currency with no sales taxes paid that could be a "jubilee" for the worlds sovereign debt. Governments can't do Keynesian, they've lost sovereignty to the 1% and their Bond markets.
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Gaaltero
Conscious Black Man
11:55 AM on 06/09/2012
Spain should go to the IMF. They just ruin countries and saddled them with onerous debt terms that are worse in the long run. Ask Africa and South America.

Spain should just sit back and let the EU (Germans) come to them with favorable terms. If Spain collapses, the whole EU goes, including the German myth. If Spain goes, all those assets Germany financed for German immigrants who abandoned property in Spain also go to h/ell too. Don't sit there and take the blame for the this because that's obviously what the Germans are setting up.
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Gaaltero
Conscious Black Man
11:57 AM on 06/09/2012
Spain should not...go to the IMF.
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GravitonX
10^300 bosons could care less.
12:30 PM on 06/09/2012
Good suggestion. Never underestimate the stubborn foolishness of Germany and their bloated egos.
11:53 AM on 06/09/2012
Seems like only yesterday that Obama was lecturing us about how wonderful European style socialism is. Its the model for Obamaland.
12:37 PM on 06/09/2012
You are hearing voices again. It's only in your imagination.
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TAIsabel
Suffer no fools.
01:25 PM on 06/09/2012
You would not know what you are talking about if it crawled into that hole your head lives in.
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Kerry keane
11:52 AM on 06/09/2012
Some say, Obama "hinted" during his speech yesterday that the US via the IMF might play a role in the the Euro Bank Bail-outs ... I watched the whole speech and give it a "not likely but possible" ...

If this indeed comes to pass (I hope it's just another bunk rumor), watch-out for civil unrest here ....
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IPredictARiot
US Military = largest socialist entity on earth
11:51 AM on 06/09/2012
Spain ran budget surpluses before 2008, and has the lowest debt:GDP ratio in the Eurozone. They have undergone austerity measures, cutting healthcare and education and public services. The last 4 years, Spain has basically been following the Conservative agenda perfectly.

So seriously, if you post on here about "socialism" and "government spending" and such being the root cause, you're simply going to look like a fool. This is a banking crisis caused by poor lending practices, and while the government budget is fairly solid, Spain simply doesn't have excess public capital lying around to cushion their banks.
11:54 AM on 06/09/2012
Great post. Obama should send these fine folks 2 trillion dollars. No, make it 4 Trillion. Problem solved Obama style.
12:15 PM on 06/09/2012
No, its you that's the fool. Socialist government entitlement programs are exactly the reason countries like Greece, Spain and the US are all going bankrupt. Get a clue about capitalism and how the free market works before spouting off mindless rhetoric.
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ursulasaulie
dignity to all people
12:35 PM on 06/09/2012
Ah. the european expert........
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Christopher Hull
Democratic Socialist
12:55 PM on 06/09/2012
So let's get a "clue" about capitalism and the "free markets"?
Then we can briefly touch on "socialist entitlement programs."
First of all Western-style Capitalism only works when labor/capital/state work somewhat in each others best interest and their own. It's like a dance. Give and take. What we have now is the rise of slave labor based Capitalism where labor has no power and therefore capital runs unchecked making good short term decisions but horrible long term ones.
There is NO "free market." The places where the wealthy are buying property and investing (BRIC countries) ALL have high tax rates (high tariff rates) and LOTS of domestic regulation. Take China. China companies sell us products that if they sold to their own people they would be jailed.
Adam Smith explained a long time ago that capitalism only works well when it's worst impulses are countered by government regulation. Friedmans free markets only seem to enrich capital and leave labor in a race to the bottom.
If taxes did go to make economies more competitive (health care, eduction, infrastructure) rather than to military rabbit holes (theft) then that would HELP the economy not hurt it.
Perhaps you need to examine your own mindless rhetoric
11:50 AM on 06/09/2012
Next is Italy, then France and then Germany.
11:55 AM on 06/09/2012
But but but these are the socialist paradises Obama studied in liberal school.
12:15 PM on 06/09/2012
Don't forget the US.
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piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
11:49 AM on 06/09/2012
It's about time for these countries such as Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Portugal etc to form the "Debt Zone". All of them have enough experience in debt management. By combining their debt through loan consolidation they should get a lower interest rate.
11:57 AM on 06/09/2012
Maybe they should form "the work for a living the government is not your mommy" zone.
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GabrielWithoutWings
Cheese and whine, baby.
12:01 PM on 06/09/2012
You might want to tell the banks that started this entire debacle that they shouldn't engage in shady lending practices while you're griping at the dirty socialists.
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ursulasaulie
dignity to all people
12:36 PM on 06/09/2012
guess you know the way Europe works very well. Do you even own a passport?
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Josh Steinhauer
Ex-Patriot, Europe
11:43 AM on 06/09/2012
The problem facing Spain is the same problem facing most of Europe. They have an aging population and more people drawing off of social programs than who are contributing to them. In Spain’s case the situation is much worse. The country has close to 25% unemployment and unemployment for people under the age of 30 is at 50%. They call them the lost generation because so many college graduates cannot find any jobs.

Part of this is Spain’s problem; they have not invested in job creation endeavors or sought ways to bring down their debt. They figured they could continue to spend money like they always have and someone would bail them out.

Germany by contrast has unemployment in the Western part of Germany of around 6% and in Baden-Wurttemberg and Bavaria the industrial belt of Germany the unemployment level is under 3%. The different between Germanys and the rest of the EU is Germanys work hard, they do not retire at the age of 40 like people do in Greece or 50 as they do in Spain. Like Americans they work into their middle 60s and they continue to contribute to the economy. The rest of the EU could learn a few things from the Germanys on how to cut spending, run an efficient economy and stay out of financial trouble.
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piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
11:51 AM on 06/09/2012
As an observation the industries of the countires you identify are stark contrasts. Employment reflects opportunities. If barriers exist to labour movement that should change. Right now there seems to be an imbalance between opportunities and labour. Take 4% from Spain and move them to Germany for examp[le.
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runswithscissors
Hobson's Choice ≠ Free Will
12:04 PM on 06/09/2012
I wonder how much has to do with language differences. Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, and French are all Latin based languages so fluency in one makes it pretty easy to learn another. German is quite different. Labor is technically free to move about the EU unimpeded, but language barriers still exist. I don't have any hard data, but I'd like to see how much labor movement takes place among the countries with Latin based languages and compare that to the numbers between those countries and Germany. That could be one reason for such a contrast in unemployment numbers when that really shouldn't exist in an economic union like the EU.
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stephan67
Eternity and a day
11:54 AM on 06/09/2012
Steinhauer ,from your name I understand why you have these positions.Austerity kills the economies of S.Europe .The Euro is a club where Deutshe Bank decides what has to be done. Three days ago Berlusconi said that Italy should print money ,or that Germany should leave the Euro.There is a strong anti-German sentiment in S.Europe , so be prepared for a 3rd defeat.
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ursulasaulie
dignity to all people
12:40 PM on 06/09/2012
but Berlusconi is no longer PM of Italy.... so it makes no difference what he says and people certainly don't take him serious. BTW. I live in S. Europe and don't feel any ant German sentiment...... Where do you get this idea from?
kevinclennon
print the money ben
11:43 AM on 06/09/2012
spain has been in trouble for a long time. unemployment was high when the world was booming. This is a example of the people being dependent on the state. Progressive ideas at their best?
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GabrielWithoutWings
Cheese and whine, baby.
12:04 PM on 06/09/2012
Do you really think that the entire goal of progressives is to just sit around and collect checks from the government? Thats almost as ridiculous as saying that conservatives want complete anarchy.
kevinclennon
print the money ben
01:26 PM on 06/09/2012
Drones aren't progressive. These people are the tool to obtain power. Anarchy is another progressive tool i think you are confussed. Van Jones and his Oakland connection may ring a bell.
12:40 PM on 06/09/2012
If Obama even HINTS about bailing out Europe with the fragile state of OUR economy,he should be impeached on the spot.
kevinclennon
print the money ben
01:28 PM on 06/09/2012
Its already happen they sent 600 million over 6 months ago. They kept that one quiet.
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CollectiveNotIndividual
11:35 AM on 06/09/2012
There will be a debt induced economic collapse in the United States soon unless we get government debt under control. One just needs to study economic history to know this. We must get our debt under control. We could raise taxes (democrat plan) or cut spending (Republican plan) or do a little of both (independent plan)....but something must be done and it must be done soon !!!”
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Gaaltero
Conscious Black Man
11:30 AM on 06/09/2012
The Germans are acting just like the Republicans would if they were in the WH, and that's why the EU has 24% unemployment in parts of Europe were it shouldn't be, and has countries about ready to fall off the face of the Earth and they don't care. Good thing the US does act that way with states.

Thank God the President Obama won, else were would have problems like Europe. Thank you Germans for showing us that we made the better choice.
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CollectiveNotIndividual
11:36 AM on 06/09/2012
Are you suggesting we take from those who have to work until they are 67 (Germans) and then give that money to those who get to retire when they are 60 (Spain and Greece) ?? Do you not see the great injustice in doing this???
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Australopitenico
Caveman, not Australian
09:09 AM on 06/10/2012
Uh, Spaniards have to work until they are 67. Where do you get your info from?
11:37 AM on 06/09/2012
The unemployment in Greece is Germany's fault?

Are Germans coming down to Athens and knocking brooms out of people's hands?

I see illegal Mexican immigrants standing at intersections selling oranges to passing motorists. Nobody stops them from working.
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Gaaltero
Conscious Black Man
11:45 AM on 06/09/2012
Indirectly, yes. But, you're just focused on the immediate so you probably won't understand. Your last statement is absurd and shows you don't understand the scale of the problem at all. So how many oranges do you think you have to sell to make up for $50 billion? You're an i/diot.
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lensamy
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
11:30 AM on 06/09/2012
This is getting worse. Unless Germany has a massive amount of money under a mattress somewhere how are they gonna keep up giving money away to all those failing economies. Austerity does not work. Period. Instead of waiting for thing to get worse why they just go ahead a nd dissolve the euro? How much longer Germany will be willing and able to sustain all these sinking economies? It seems that the paper I wrote for my senior thesis will come true. I gave the Euro less than 25 years to go down the drain. I guess mixing economies that dont have anything in common is bad for business. Who knew. lol
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2tango
Liberte Fraternite et Egalite
11:28 AM on 06/09/2012
Until few days ago, Rajoy was denying all kind of bailout to banks, saying wasn't necessary. now in an emergency-meeting. they are trying to rescue Spain with 50Billions "euros"

Rajoy is a "Charlatan"
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PharmaCan
Trying to make sense of it all
11:27 AM on 06/09/2012
Spain initially tried to get European leaders to directly fund aid to the banks so the government wouldn't have to ask for it and suffer the stigma of being lumped together with Greece, Ireland and Portugal as nations forced to ask for outside help.

Hey Spain, here's a thought. let the banks fail then go after the personal fortunes of all the bankers who are responsible for the collapse.
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Josh Steinhauer
Ex-Patriot, Europe
11:46 AM on 06/09/2012
If your wealthy and live in Europe then you are smart enough to know that the bulk of your money is sitting in a Swiss bank account, not in your country of origin. That's what all the Americans do.