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02:56 PM on 06/12/2012
Would we hear all of this media news if both persons envolved were black or if both persons were white, or if the shooter and victom's roles were reversed, I think not. The likes of these so called religous leaders are goading everyone into a racial war. How many blacks were killed in Detroit this year? The Revs. Sharpton and Jackson, why do you not go to Detroit and try to stop some of this needless killing, by doing this you will get some great air time, which is all you are looking for anyway, and for a bonus you may also save a few lives.
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03:36 PM on 06/12/2012
The race is not the whole issue here when it comes to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton..The injustice was done when the police department on the same day a kid was killed let his killer go free of charges without an investigation of any sort...THEREFORE, that was the injustice that brought the case to light and where it is now... So don't go blaming them for creating issues..Blacks are far from stupid and we are outraged from the start...Prior to this case..I have NEVER heard of a man, killing another man, and the same day they free him WITHOUT investigating....That is when i became outraged...Its says alot about who's lives they value....so they are doing the right thing about speaking out
06:58 PM on 06/12/2012
"...a kid"? Some kid.
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swatcapt
02:56 PM on 06/12/2012
The he would bring going to jail. To think that is ok to attack someone who may or may not be following is not reasonable. The part of the law you forget to state.
03:38 PM on 06/12/2012
Correct. That line of thinking would make it open season on process servers, reporters, and paparazzi.
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Alisa Neely
i SUPPORT GAY RIGHTS....EQUAL RIGHTS really....i f
02:44 PM on 06/12/2012
imo, it's a VERY DANGEROUS LAW....hell i even read that police were concerned with it, when it was put into law or even talked about...before hand......even IF he claimed it was "self defense", he STILL should have been ARRESTED and allowed the DA to decide.....zimmerman, has gotten out of ALOT of arrests over the years....and i feel it's because of WHO his father is.....a retired judge.

imo, "STAND YOUR GROUND" means: you DON'T chase after the person you fear.....and IF martin did get into a fight with zimmerman that night.....imo, he did so to PROTECT his own life.....he was MINDING HIS OWN DAMN BUSINESS....and suddenly, he's being FOLLOWED.

alisa
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Charles Snell
04:22 PM on 06/12/2012
too many suppositions in your post...your opinions appear to be based on tainted media releases.
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catboycolo
I'll have the coffee, not the KoolAid
05:10 PM on 06/12/2012
Actually that is very astute legal thinking. My brother is a defense attorney and these issues come up all the time in real courts regarding these laws.
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HotheadPaisen
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06:09 PM on 06/17/2012
Fanned for truthiness. Every law enforcement agency in Florida vocally opposed the passage of this law.
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Alisa Neely
i SUPPORT GAY RIGHTS....EQUAL RIGHTS really....i f
07:06 PM on 06/17/2012
Thank you.
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swatcapt
02:43 PM on 06/12/2012
So it is immoral to protected myself even if it means taking the like of another.
04:55 PM on 06/12/2012
It's immoral to chase a person down who was not bothering you other than by his skin color, provoke him into a fight and then shoot him "in self-defense" when you start to lose. Or can't you read?
05:46 PM on 06/12/2012
Prove Zimmerman chased Martin because of his skin color.

Prove Zimmerman provoked Martin into a fight.
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JustMyWords
04:59 PM on 06/12/2012
Killing another to protect your own life isn't immoral. Deliberately inserting yourself into a dangerous situation & instigating a confrontation, then claiming self-defense after killing someone, however, is a different story.
05:47 PM on 06/12/2012
Where is the evidence that Zimmerman instigated a confrontation?
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swatcapt
02:40 PM on 06/12/2012
That could be possible but following someone in and of itself is not a crime. Next as the tapes show Z lost cite of and stop following T thus he was no longer the aggressor if he ever was in the first place.
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03:38 PM on 06/12/2012
Fool please, losing site of him and then seeing him so time later...losing site does not make him any less aggressive fool..It just means he lost site, and then said he was running...He chased him... Sit down!! Stop it !!
04:56 PM on 06/12/2012
*sight If he wasn't following him, how did he manage to shoot him at close range?
05:48 PM on 06/12/2012
Perhaps because like Zimmerman claims, Martin came up and confronted him?
07:00 PM on 06/12/2012
Because the other guy was on top of him.
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swatcapt
02:37 PM on 06/12/2012
Possible. But that is not what I believe. I believe that I should not have to worry about trying to get away from harm if I am in a spot that I am aloud to be.
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JustMyWords
05:01 PM on 06/12/2012
In the Zimmerman case, Martin was *also* in a spot that he had every legal right to be.
05:51 PM on 06/12/2012
Correct. So why then did Martin choose to give Zimmerman a beat down?
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swatcapt
02:34 PM on 06/12/2012
Kinda of. Some else mention something about god so I was talking to them not you.
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Ricardo Aviles
02:33 PM on 06/12/2012
The "Stand Your Ground - Kill At Will" sign says it all! With this law, if you are confronted by a nervous person....you're dead, because he'll shoot you dead first and ask questions later!
03:40 PM on 06/12/2012
And he'll go to jail. What you state is simply untrue.
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Rick Cain
Angry Young Man
05:19 PM on 06/12/2012
Not everybody needs shootin' The problem with SYG is it encourages you to kill the person, because if you wound them you're likely to open up a can of legal worms on yourself.

The other problem with SYG is it encourages a criminal to kill YOU too rather than just rob you.
05:52 PM on 06/12/2012
Do you really think that in the heat of the moment, either participant is evaluating their legal status?
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swatcapt
02:19 PM on 06/12/2012
Agree with you about everything you said except SYG. In reality it does not apply as Z stated that T was on top this Z could not retreat anyway thus just regular self defense is the way it should go.
02:55 PM on 06/12/2012
No because Zimmerman never should have ignored the cops and he should've stayed in his vehicle.
03:40 PM on 06/12/2012
Once the physical attack on Zimmerman began, the shooting became justified regardless of what preceded it.
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03:39 PM on 06/12/2012
In addition, Z was the aggressor... not the victim
05:55 PM on 06/12/2012
Legally, that has yet to be determined.
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gutenmorgen
a.k.a. crowsnest
02:17 PM on 06/12/2012
A society which is obsessed with "standing your (real) ground" but plays footsie with "standing your moral ground" is sick
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swatcapt
02:14 PM on 06/12/2012
Yeah I know it never wants to load for some reason
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jgfsmf
My micro bio is too naughty for your eyes.
03:11 PM on 06/12/2012
Like I said, it takes forever. I usually let it load then walk away for a minute or two. That is if you were responding to me.
02:14 PM on 06/12/2012
Self defense has always been the law, but there are problems with "Stand Your Ground." From the appearance of it, it seems to me that it can be abused. For example, I pick a fight with someone, but he gets the better of me. He starts pummelling me and I fear for my life, but I have a gun. I get off a shot, am I somehow using self defense, or am I a guy who took on more than I can handle and killed the guy I attacked instead of losing the fight.
02:52 PM on 06/12/2012
Based on how some cases have gone in Florida you can be either. There was an article not long ago (can't remember where though) that looked at several cases where the "Stand your Ground" law had been applied and its use has been extremely abused with lots of people trying to use it for nearly all situations involving shootings or stabings. As for how effective it is, if I recall correctly about 70% of those who invoked it walked free, however the veredicts have been extremely inconsistent even for similar situations. The scenario you described (Person A goes looking for a fight, fight starts, person A starts losing the fight and shoots person B) has been used more than once and both outcomes have occurred, in some instances the person was declared not guilty in some it was even though the situations were nearly identical between them. The most crazy one I recall was one in which one person got into a fight at a party where his opponent had a knife. After the fight cooled down his opponent gave his knife to a friend and returned to the party while this person left the party, went and got a knife of his own and came back to stab his opponent and somehow walked free by invoking the Stand your Ground law.
04:59 PM on 06/12/2012
It's a dangerous law because it gives idiots an excuse to kill. It's a dangerous law because it leads to killings, both of the guilty and of the innocent. It's a dangerous law because it takes the law into the hands of people who are not trained in law enforcement. Florida is a deeply weird place.
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Wally Parnel
05:16 PM on 06/12/2012
If someone is plummelling you, that means they will take you gun away from you, and shoot you, or steal your gun. Murder is murder. Suggest you walk away, and avoid confrontation. No one attack someone without a reason. take away the reason, it will end. And this is not naivete, it the way it works. You can carry a 100 guns on you, and if someone want to kill you, you will die before you can react.
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Doobie Snacks
02:13 PM on 06/12/2012
Apparently, Z supporters are in the habit of telling their children that it's ok for them to be followed and then approached by strangers in the middle of the night; at any time for that matter.
17 is a minor, otherwise known as a child, in FL.
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Ryokucha
02:49 PM on 06/12/2012
I have always agreed with that assessment. Lets ignore the entire physical confrontation. If you are a 17 year old, and you see a man trailing you, and following your every move, and obviously seems like they are interested in what you are doing, they should be in fear of their life.

The law was even written with rape victims in mind, so it would be in my opinion that Martin would have every right to defend himself first in a physical altercation based on being trailed. So even if Martin was first in the physical fight, he should be the only person who can claim he was standing his ground, and in fear of his life.

If Martin was left alive and only injured. It is also my opinion once a jury heard Martin say, yes I fought him first because he was trailing me for over a mile, and I was in fear for my life. That would be all the evidence needed to take away Zimmerman's right to use Stand-your-ground as a defense. Obviously the person who initiates the entire chain of events could not claim they were in fear of their life first.

Seeing someone walking down the street wearing a hoody, with a can of iced tea and skittles, should not cause anyone to be in fear of their life. So Zimmerman has no right to use it as a defense first.
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03:41 PM on 06/12/2012
You are so right! Said it perfectly! No one knows how TM felt at the last point of his life but i'm sure he was scared and confused.... and at the point of no return realized that he had to fight for us life.. at the point, the SYG law should have applied to him too! PERIOD!
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Doobie Snacks
03:47 PM on 06/12/2012
Exactly.
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jgfsmf
My micro bio is too naughty for your eyes.
03:11 PM on 06/12/2012
And 7:30 pm...otherwise known as the middle of the night, in FL.
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HotheadPaisen
Longform bio awaiting the Donald's approval.
06:34 PM on 06/17/2012
It was daylight.
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TVs Scotty J
02:09 PM on 06/12/2012
Stand Your Ground is unnecessary. The law is already on your side if you're defending yourself or your property. All Stand Your Ground accomplishes is encouraging more vigilante behavior...
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Alisa Neely
i SUPPORT GAY RIGHTS....EQUAL RIGHTS really....i f
02:49 PM on 06/12/2012
i agree....imo, zimmerman was looking for trouble...NOT martin.....he's a "want-a-be- cop".....imo, zimmerman STARTED the WHOLE mess....by following the kid......and "neighborhood watch" people are NOT supposed to be ARMED with anything MORE then a cellphone....and maybe a flashlight.

alisa
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swatcapt
02:08 PM on 06/12/2012
Also for got to mention the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that" there is a difference between that and "don't do that." I am told this "we don't need you to do that" when I call in possible drunk drivers. Yet I follow as it is in my legal right to do so.
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Alisa Neely
i SUPPORT GAY RIGHTS....EQUAL RIGHTS really....i f
02:51 PM on 06/12/2012
yes, but it VERY dangerous for you to do so.....that's WHY 9-11 tells callers NOT to continue.

alisa
03:58 PM on 06/12/2012
Whether it is dangerous or not to follow, it is irrelevant as far as law and this case goes.
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03:44 PM on 06/12/2012
First of all, anybody with COMMON SENSE.. knows when somebody ask's "are you following that person" and they say "yes" and then dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that" it means DON'T DO IT!!! Yet you follow..If you continue to follow and something happens to you or anyone else... you are responsible..It is your faught...WHY do you think they are saying you dont' need to do that? Its for your own safety....So you need to be wise when choosing to still follow and pursue someone..Its dumb..let the police do their jobs...and you and GZ stay out the way!
06:30 PM on 06/12/2012
There is no evidence to support the notion that George Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon Martin after being advised not to follow. That is an assumption on your part.
06:41 PM on 06/12/2012
Using "common sense" as an argument is a logical fallacy called poisoning the well.