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Morals evolved due to cooperative group living
09:12 PM on 01/25/2009
Carbon credits are way too much like the indulgences sold in the middle ages.
In a few cases they have a useful result, but mostly this is a money scheme, not an environmental plan.

I would prefer to see each country installing a "tax & subsidy" deal where polluting power is taxed a little more each year, and pollution free power gains a subsidy making it competitive. This would speed up the introduction of new green technology.
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10:56 PM on 01/25/2009
Boy ! Do I ever agree with that !!

It sounds just like a stock market gimmick.
I'm glad YOU said something. It wasn't sitting rite with me yet, I didn't post that.
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Safe from zombies until my 2nd cup of coffee
03:31 PM on 01/26/2009
You've hit it dead on, I think.
07:39 PM on 01/25/2009
What the hell is a freakin carbon credit???? The Nigerians e-mailing you with info on transferring millions of dollars is less a scam
Voting republican is voting against America.
07:28 PM on 01/25/2009
This whole carbon credit nonsense is just that. Nonsense AND a scam. It simply allows polluters everywhere to pollute while "buying" that right.

This has just got to stop.

And as for driving less as the best answer? That is not the best thing. try making DIESEL trucks spew less. Try making DIESEL trucks run on what they were originally intended to run on, which was NOT oil.

Start requiring ALL buildings being built to have solar panels no matter the size of the building.

Start using our deserts to build huge solar collectors.

Wind energy.

And even wave energy,

But until we actually make a REAL effort, this c rap of carbon trading will never make things better.
newspapers, your local watchdog
07:43 PM on 01/25/2009
I agree. Whatever we should and should not be doing, carbon credits are for the most part a sham.
01:03 PM on 01/26/2009

you are aware that the new administration supports greening America, including through the use of carbon credits.
Voting republican is voting against America.
05:17 PM on 01/26/2009
I know, but I am hoping he gets better advice and goes public with what a sham and scam Carbon credits are.
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Thorium "IS" the answer.
07:23 PM on 01/25/2009
Looks to me like China is following the Republican-Bushco doctrine. We'll tell you what's good for you, and don't worry about the clicking noises on your phone, it's just a solar wind reaction to the termites in the poles carrying the wires.
11:12 PM on 01/25/2009
How so? Bush and congress rejected this program. The article implies that Obama might want to sign onto it..
11:43 AM on 01/26/2009
Carbon credits weren't advantageous for us as an industrialized nation. Mikeeee was simply comparing China's use of carbon credit exchanges to wire-tapping. I happen to agree that carbon credits may not be the answer and President Obama may want to address that issue before signing on. He also signed onto FISA, but at the least seems open and willing to dialogue and a more open excahnge of ideas than the previous administration. I don't believe you read Mikeee's post with a level of comprehension and if you supported Bush as well, your critical thinking skills are suspect.
09:24 PM on 01/26/2009
Bush rejected it because he/they couldn't control it.
07:15 PM on 01/25/2009
The detrimental environmental effects of large dams and water projects almost always outweigh any possible benefits.

Encouraging environmental destruction in China to offset damage in Germany is not a good idea.Not a good idea at all.

We need to heal the Earth. Not further destroy it's natural functions.
MURKA! Numba one 4 EVA!
09:29 PM on 01/25/2009
"Encouraging environmental destruction in China to offset damage in Germany is not a good idea.Not a good idea at all."

It is especially not a good idea when the environmentally damaging project in China is used as scam to gain financing from the west for projects which were going to be buiit anyway.
05:27 AM on 01/26/2009
Well said.
up the establishment!
12:08 PM on 01/26/2009
I recall in the early 70's and late 60's there were articles in various "hippy farmer" magazines about small hydro plants that worked off low flow of water. Howcum we can't distribute our energy producers around the environment to minimize their negative impacts? If the huge freakin dam is a massive blow to the Earth maybe a few thousand small generators running off small amounts of flowing water would do the job. For that matter, since all households create waste and all human waste is capable of creating methane, if we had really efficient burning systems for methane we could generate enough electricity for a family using their own waste. Why a huge, expensive central system when distributed generation creates less environmental degeneration? Why do all the plans a government creates involve making a handful of rich powerful people more wealthy and more powerful with things like security and energy needs secondary concerns?
humping legs for liberty
07:10 PM on 01/25/2009
those poor chinese. i'd much rather have my home taken for a shopping mall or an office building and the parking lots needed than for a zero carbon dam.

the bigger question is why does germany still have a huge carbon polluter to begin with?

china, unlike some countries we know, realize the dependence upon carbon as an energy source is not very smart so a lot of these projects should be found to have been built anyway without cdm money. if anyone is gaming the system it is the chinese having their energy infrastructure needs being paid for by western polluters who don't want to change their ways. alittle ironic isn't it?
07:54 PM on 01/25/2009
There would have been alternatives for hydroelectricity, but the Chinese officials choose the most damaging and dangerous option. In the end this dam is certainly not positive, but bad for environment.
09:00 PM on 01/25/2009
The most damaging and dangerous option? Hardly. But for sure they picked the economically cheapest one. We did the same thing with many of our dams.
07:05 PM on 01/25/2009
Listen, any energy policy that doesn't begin with driving less isn't going to be effective in reducing carbon emissions. Carbon credits are bogus. It is like paying someone to lose weight for you. It doesn't work like that.

Was it Coldplay that planted a forest to offset the pollution caused by one of their tour and the whole forest died?
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Release the Hydrogen Economy now!
07:11 PM on 01/25/2009
Your both wrong and right.

Releasing the hydrogen economy would permit you to drive more with zero pollution.

And you are right, carbon credits is complete scam and it can be gamed with transnational impunity with absolute no impact to carbon reduction.
08:41 PM on 01/25/2009
"Releasing the hydrogen economy would permit you to drive more with zero pollution."

I didn't know the new Congress just repealed the laws of nature. Was that before or after they nixed the Bush tax cuts?
08:21 AM on 01/26/2009
"releasing the hydrogen economy" And from where are we going to get the hydrogen? Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is a medium for storing energy from somewhere else (a lot of it from coal power plants, etc). The hydrogen economy is still polluting.
up the establishment!
12:19 PM on 01/26/2009
It was a good idea except for the fact that nobody thought it through. Another example of vast sums of money decreasing the intelligence of those involved with it. Yeah, let's plant trees all over Arizona and southern California! We'll make the Great Salt Lake a green oasis! If a reasonably intelligent idea was followed through by people who actually understand such things (as compared with, say a rock band) these kinds of ideas would work. Plant the damn mangoes where they can grow and prosper. Try planting a mix of things. Try including a source of water for the new plants.

You know what burns me up, though? I am not allowed to build a roof over my porch without an engineers stamp on plans drawn up by an engineer, followed by paying off the town to review my plans and inspect my porch. All that money and governmental intervention for a damn roof, but if I wanted to build a home that generated it's own electricity with a small windplant and a methane powered generator they would just say NO. I can't even use a biological toilet because the building inspector has never heard of them and is convinced they are outhouses. Government is not part of the solution. In fact governments are most of the problem. This world needs an enema.
06:42 PM on 01/25/2009
Carbon Colonialism---look it up.
MURKA! Numba one 4 EVA!
09:45 PM on 01/25/2009
The way the Chinese scam this program hardly qualifies them as a victim colonialism. They appear to be the exploiters rather than the exploited.
06:34 PM on 01/25/2009
This same thing happened to US citizens when the freeways and highways. power plant, dam's and civic centers where build , All while you where not looking.
07:04 PM on 01/25/2009
It's the same all over the world, but of course in China and other regimes there are no obstacles.

Here it took 30 years for the government to begin the highway, although enough studies pointed out that the alternative routes and concepts are better.

I bet they would like to treat the people who stopped them all the time like the Chinese. As a star architect said it's really great there (i.e. slave-like workers, population with no rights).
06:34 PM on 01/25/2009
just another example of the scam called global warming, or is it global climate change. i think it should be renamed make al gore rich
07:06 PM on 01/25/2009
Another one clueless. Just because some mechanism to counter it is abused doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But why I am wasting my time? You're a believer.
07:12 PM on 01/25/2009
They live in an alternate reality.

Or unreality, since it is a reality not based on fact. Or evidence.
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Release the Hydrogen Economy now!
07:54 PM on 01/25/2009
You shouldn't waste your time then. The Sun is in a period of low to zero sunspot activity that indicates a period of global cooling has commenced.

Gore gets free corporate media air time for his trash but these guys cannot even bust into a major print media to get their voices heard: .

If you are so worried, why don't you call for the release of the hydrogen economy?
05:50 PM on 01/25/2009
Both the carbon credits program and the cap and trade program suceed in one thing -- no actual reduction in actual carbon input into the environment. Both of the are geared to make billions for the middlemen and raise costs to the users (us).
Look at the example in the story, the German electric plant is still burning the same (if not more) amount of coal/oil and the dam (which will not be completed for a couple of more years) would have been built with or without the carbon credit program. What exactly is the "loss" of carbon input?
04:44 PM on 01/25/2009
You only need carbon credits if you are not willing to do the right thing: tax carbon emissions and reinvest the money in renewable technology. It's really that simple...
Vieux motard que Jamais.
04:35 PM on 01/25/2009
04:00 PM on 01/25/2009
I read the atrocities around the world with regards to dams and how they destroy everything in their path - - what a heavy price to pay for industrialization.
04:46 PM on 01/25/2009
Not industrialization per se. It's the price we pay for the cheapest form of electric energy. If we are willing to pay more, we can get the same from renewables that have none of the ecological etc. downsides.
03:55 PM on 01/25/2009
This is like paying me to sit home and laugh
so that you can drive where ever you want.

This is the most stupid thing I have heard about

Trickle down economics.

Sell some "power derivatives" to the brokers that
brought us to the place we are today

Broke - coughing from the polution - in the dark !!!

what are you thinking?