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SocialTinker
Retired and Refired.
05:23 PM on 08/22/2012
When I read that the US Capitalist system isn't just greedy, it's immorally greedy, I thought this is just jealously. I am, apparently, being proven wrong again. Why are North Americans so proud of their society? I'm guessing that less than 10% of US citizens truly practice their own religions.
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olitenup
05:18 PM on 08/22/2012
Yes!!! Self serving and selfish.

Makes me appreciate the Kennedys and Shrivers, etc, all the more.
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gateking
05:46 PM on 08/22/2012
Yep, gotta love money derived from illegal activity and tied up in trusts for generations.
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olitenup
06:52 PM on 08/22/2012
You  mean like mitt and his death squad family BAIN backers?
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11:51 PM on 08/22/2012
I admit that I have been right there with you for many years on the start of the Kennedy fortune. My opinion is that if the fortune is illegally gotten, then no matter how many times it is washed/invested it is ALL still illegal. HOWEVER, now that the third generation are entering middle age, I think that we are finding that many of them are aware that life is greater than them or their family.

They are doing good and I guess that I personally wouldn't expect them to forgo their inheritances as they had nothing to do with how is was obtained. Kind of a moral quandary.
04:48 PM on 08/22/2012
There may be some good reasons why the rich aren't more generous... http://ow.ly/da2jK. Let's keep that in mind as well.
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Lucas Mathers
HuffPo now REQUIRES my FB account?!? Unacceptable.
12:10 AM on 08/23/2012
Not going to follow your unidentifiable link but I cannot imagine and argument that would support that supposition.
07:32 PM on 11/19/2012
Hey Lucas, sorry just getting this comment now and it's probably way too late but here's the identifiable link: http://recharity.ca/why-arent-the-rich-more-generous/. They're more like perceived reasons (also known as excuses) but as they say, perception is reality.
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J T K
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
04:08 PM on 08/22/2012
Even with the low effective tax rate that is currently in place. If I were wealthy (I'm not, to say the least) and liberals were seriously talking about not only raising the statutory and effective tax rates, not just to be roughly equal and a fair rate but to be redistributive and punitive towards those who have more money then I wouldn't be giving any of it away either.

Liberals also want it both ways, saying that the rich don't pay enough in taxes to pay for social programs but then at the same time blaming the rich don't donate enough to support nonprofit social projects. It's not really defendable to both want the rich to support social programs for the poor through forced taxation and at the same time then blame them for also not donating enough of their own volition.
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MJinCanada
Safe from zombies until my 2nd cup of coffee
05:18 PM on 08/22/2012
It's naive to think that the rich don't need to pay a fair share of taxes for the infrastructure, natural resources, manpower and social structure (police, etc.) that they use. They used more of those shared resources than the average person to make their money and they use more than the average person to protect what they have. You want law and order and stability -- you have to pay for it.

And if they put a chunk into charity it's tax deductible. If they put it into paying their workers, they wouldn't be paying as much tax. So they have choices.
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J T K
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
05:32 PM on 08/22/2012
I'm not saying that the rich shouldn't pay their fair share and I think the effective rate that the rich pay needs to be higher. That being said, I think it needs to be done in a way that closes the loopholes and is part of a much bigger reformation of the tax code.

We need a tax code that is much more simple and one that can be at least semi-permanent. Going back to the tax rate, the rich should be paying more overall but there's no reason we can't have flat tiers based on total income (including investment income) and have no deductions for anything.

I'd also argue that you are wrong in your statement about the wealthy using more resources, I have never seen anything to back that up despite people constantly claiming that. If the rich benefited more it's from making more use of companies that use the resources more in providing goods and services to the wealthy and if that is the case then public policy needs to be fixed to make companies that make heavy use of those resources pay more, the cost of which would be passed on to their customers.
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gateking
05:50 PM on 08/22/2012
Odd the biggest governmental expenditures are defense and social spending. All benefit from defense and social spending skews heavily away from the rich, so the rich hardly use more of the nation's resources.
07:14 PM on 08/22/2012
That's why a straight 10% flat tax, with NO deductions, on everyone making over a minimum income should be considered. Yes, 10% of $50,000 seems a lot more than 10% of $5,000,000 to some people, but one should be fair and not penalize people for making money. They should be encouraged to provide jobs for the less fortunate and not waste their money on diamond-studded doggie collars. (I know, it's their money; they can do as they please with it. It just seems a bit "Late Roman Empire".)
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J T K
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
07:26 PM on 08/22/2012
I think a better system would be 10% for anyone making the federal poverty level + cost of living but that would require the federal poverty level to actually reflect the true poverty level and the cost of living numbers to make sense. That's not even mentioning how much more work it would be to make sure people were accurately representing their home (especially for wealthier people) and not trying to get a higher exemption.

10% of $50,000 sounds good to me though, that's enough to live off of in most of the country and disposable income is just that, not a guarantee but if you get paid enough to have disposable income then it is yours to spend yourself, after taxes of course.
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Lucas Mathers
HuffPo now REQUIRES my FB account?!? Unacceptable.
12:19 AM on 08/23/2012
Flat taxes are shown to be regressive, tho they sound nice, simple and fair.

It's only "their money" when they earn it. A lot of the wealth these people posses was gain thru criminal activities. Example: the Koch bros sales to Iran, despite federal sanctions (something else they've never been held accountable for). http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html
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Harbourcay
Yacht delivery capt and former rifle company comma
03:35 PM on 08/22/2012
Let me guess--- the was an Editorial Board meeting at the Huff Post and the editor decided to further class warfare in this country and publish a bogus piece of yellow journalism to further that aim. Let's see some figures on total amount contributed to charity by people making over 200K and what percentage that is of the total. Or-- lets take away the tax deduction for charitable deductions and see what happens---- the top 5% of this country pay 60% of all taxes- what the HP would like to see is them pay 100% of all taxes and let the other 95% have a free ride.
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MJinCanada
Safe from zombies until my 2nd cup of coffee
05:19 PM on 08/22/2012
What percentage of income do you pay in taxes?

Romney got away with paying only 13% of his income in taxes.
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06:14 PM on 08/22/2012
You first!
How much did you earn, what were the sources, what were your deductions and how much taxes did you pay?
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Lucas Mathers
HuffPo now REQUIRES my FB account?!? Unacceptable.
12:26 AM on 08/23/2012
It's not "bogus" when it's true.

Class warfare already exists and it's being perpetrated by the wealthy.

The percentage of total Federally received taxes paid by any group is not a relevant or complete consideration unless you include the percentage of national income they receive. AND it's statistically a fact that their tax rate is close to it's lowest it's been in the last 100 years.
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MS Ind
My micro-bio was empty.
03:30 PM on 08/22/2012
I love how HuffPo conveniently leaves out that the top 8 states for giving are all states that voted McCain in '08 (Utah, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina, Arkansas, Georgia), while the bottom 7 states are all states that voted for Obama (Wisconsin, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire).

Simple fact. Republicans are more generous that democrats.
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MJinCanada
Safe from zombies until my 2nd cup of coffee
05:22 PM on 08/22/2012
Republicans try to buy their way into heaven by tithing.
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MS Ind
My micro-bio was empty.
05:26 PM on 08/22/2012
Regardless of you opinions on religion, you have to admit that Republicans give more money away than democrats. If you don't, you are just being purposefully ignorant.
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Gnomish
ego doctus ignarus
10:52 PM on 08/22/2012
Irony is they're buying their way out!
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Lucas Mathers
HuffPo now REQUIRES my FB account?!? Unacceptable.
12:29 AM on 08/23/2012
This isn't about political party but about wealth.

Sure, poor Republican's exist and give to charities. I'm glad they do the latter but I will never understand why they choose to support a party that doesn't support them.

As for your supposition, post a link.
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MS Ind
My micro-bio was empty.
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lhoffman5
73 yr old,Eisenhower Rep. Retired history Teacher
02:57 PM on 08/22/2012
L M A O: So much for trickle down economics (again it fails). There is nothing else, even for a big mouth like mine to say!
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Mike from NYC
2001 was far future, now it's a dozen years ago.
07:33 PM on 08/22/2012
I was going to say same exact thing. LOL
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lhoffman5
73 yr old,Eisenhower Rep. Retired history Teacher
07:58 PM on 08/22/2012
cool, great minds think alike
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authorized-user
Made in the USA
01:28 PM on 08/22/2012
The rich are not redistributing that money back to society.
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You can say that again. However they do like to donate millions as anonymous tax exempt contributors to the GOP $uper pacs to keep their tax rates LOW.
They know a good investment when they see one.
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authorized-user
Made in the USA
06:01 PM on 08/22/2012
Currently, they get a 7000% ROI when they buy a congressman.Talk about money in the bank!
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GroveGal10
chillin' on Biscayne Bay
01:15 PM on 08/22/2012
Don't forget how wealthy the GOP house members are - a very telling post on HP this week.
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06:16 PM on 08/22/2012
You must have forgotten that 7 of the top 10 are Democrats.

So what's your point?
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Dave F
Former Republican. Liberal = liberty.
01:09 PM on 08/22/2012
I can't wait for the Christian Right and Family Values crowd to be ALL OVER THIS, pointing out that we are a "Christian nation" and based on Matt 19: 16-24 about rich people selling all they have and giving to the poor because they'll have a hard time getting into heaven otherwise, and from Luke 12:48 "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

(Yeah, I'm not holding my breath.)
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GroveGal10
chillin' on Biscayne Bay
12:57 PM on 08/22/2012
It proves the wealthy are out of touch with the needs of those less fortunate and are isolated in their own world. Not that there's anything wrong with that except a lack of gratitude for their fortunes and giving back. Philanthropy would serve them much more than holding on to their wealth. I remember reading Romney proudly boasted he tithed 10% as if that's some astronomical amount - it's not at all. Obviously, "paying it forward" is not in part of their consciousness.
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MS Ind
My micro-bio was empty.
04:12 PM on 08/22/2012
10% would be far better than the average of any state in the nation other than Utah. And that's ONLY his tithing, he gave significant amounts to other charities as well (about 14% in 2010).

Do you give more than 14% of your income away every year? If so, bravo. If not, stop complaining.
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GroveGal10
chillin' on Biscayne Bay
05:43 PM on 08/22/2012
I am not talking about averages of average people. I'm talking about wealthy who have more to give - much more than a  10%. 
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Computer Geek
Logician Atheist Lefty
06:00 PM on 08/22/2012
Charity? Guess that depends on what you qualify as a charity. George Bush's Library?
"Over the past six years and two presidential campaigns, Romney has donated at least $260,000 from his family charity foundation to GOP causes and influential conservative groups that could deepen his ties within the party and establish his credibility on the right."
Later in the same article:
"Romney gave $100,000 last year to the George W. Bush Presidential Library in Dallas, according to tax records of the Tyler Charitable Foundation, a multimillion dollar Boston-based charity headed by Romney and his wife, Ann."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/23/mitt-romney-charity-donations_n_1167981.html
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Wayne Caswell
Consumer Advocate & Founder of Modern Health Talk
12:52 PM on 08/22/2012
Is the GOP and the religious right a match made in Heaven? You decide. So many "Christians" get heartwarming pleasure volunteering in soup kitchens and serving the poor that they don't question GOP plans to cut food stamps and force more Americans into poverty. After all, they'll have plenty of poor to serve soup to. They also don't question policies designed to grow the poor population since they too oppose birth control and abortions and prefer abstinence-only education. And why would they challenge anything that keeps the poor from moving upward or questioning authority and their religious doctrine? Putting God back in schools would eliminate critical thinking and counter the pseudo-science of biology, evolution and global warming. It takes faith, rather than reason, to believe in the GOP platform, so it's no wonder Republicans cater to the faithful, but critical thinkers would see through that strategy.
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Progress08
I've come to regard you as people I've met
12:45 PM on 08/22/2012
Next you're going to tell me that dumb people don't read as much as smart people.
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Mark B Robertson
12:32 PM on 08/22/2012
Is this a surprise to anyone?
12:14 PM on 08/22/2012
Tell me something I didn't already know, thank you.