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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
awenuts
see our enemies just had to wait
01:31 AM on 02/02/2013
Excellent blog post! Very timely considering the topic and the rampant amounts of propaganda circulating around social media nowadays.
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01:14 AM on 02/02/2013
Of course, you also could have argued the very valuable contributions that people in the "studies" make toward understanding how our society works, or in many cases doesn't work, and how they contribute to conversations that lead to advocacy work and policy changes that improve the lives of millions. That would work too.
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Larry Motuz
More prayers, fewer preyers.
11:35 AM on 02/03/2013
One problem, Peace Walker, is that there is a vested corporate/political interest in ensuring that most people do not understand how society works, for people who understand how it works are capable of fixing the problems over time. Educational programs that teach thinking skills are the last thing these interests want. Most people, for instance, haven't a basic grasp of civics, but how do one maintain and sustain a civil society without knowing what is, or isn't, a civil right, what liberty is, the difference between a constitutional democracy relative to majority rule?

Yours was an insightful comment.
11:42 PM on 02/01/2013
Dr. Rosenberg, where have you been? That argument has been going on at the elementary and secondary levels for decades. It is no less pernicious there than at the undergraduate and above levels.
11:37 PM on 02/01/2013
I love Pat. First destroy the education system, then destroy the water supply with fracking. We should just go ahead and make him president and give him the launch codes. Makes me proud to be a North Carolinian.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kk0808
On the Front line or in the arena
10:28 PM on 02/01/2013
The discussion isn't adding the access to the Internet -where anyone can have access to the 'best' -and we won't need buildings for education. Skye-Messaging-Emails -all allow for interaction - often welcomed by the more shy and having to type out responses and questions improves communication skills - more than sitting silently in a lecture hall - that large schools depend on.
I agree that 'teaching to the job' is the same as 'teaching to the test' - too much parroting and another way to remove critical thinking skills. Sad.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dan75
08:33 AM on 02/02/2013
Many internet schools do not work well for many students. A big complaint is that they have no individual times with teachers to ask questions if you don't understand. There's a big difference in reading material and getting tested. And reading material, interacting with a teacher who is expert on the material and then getting tested. Some colleges don't accept internet colleges as credit to transfer as well.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kk0808
On the Front line or in the arena
12:15 PM on 02/02/2013
Internet classes will never be a total replacement - and with anything the quality will be based on what each side invests into it.  I found that instructors were excellent with messaging & emails for more in depth responses. I participated much more than usual because of it.  The materials were the same as the on campus class and I even had online exams with my on campus courses.  Try taking a 2 hour online exam - better know how to type first!   
  Personally I love the access to great professors available now - my degrees are done so I'm 'safe' but I do see where 'credentialing' and accreditation standards will be the way to separate the best - ok and the 'don't waste your time & money' . .  .
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
howtowasteyourlife
09:47 PM on 02/03/2013
We're not just talking about "internet schools". Every major university in the country has online offerings, now. Every. Single. One.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
david mielke
Nebraska liberal
09:44 PM on 02/01/2013
There is a basic difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant choose not to see the reality around them, the stupid are, unfortunately, unable. In the end, anybody with an ounce of 'book learning' is the enemy.
09:44 PM on 02/01/2013
The argument is that we are to prepare future employees without regard to the fact that the skills associated with a liberal arts degree prepares future employers. Only the wealthy will be able to afford a private education...hence the preservation of the status quo...the haves and the have-nots.
08:52 PM on 02/01/2013
When I was in grad school in the early '70s, word went around nationally that there was a great demand for engineers. So many of my fellow students abandoned their previous career plans and switched to engineering. So did students from every university around the country.

Predictably, once those students graduated, there was a sudden glut of newly-minted engineers, and too few jobs for them to take.

We can't predict with any accuracy what the in-demand degrees will be in ten or twenty years, and history shows that we can't predict which fields will have a glut of graduates five years down the road if we advise all students to go for the same narrow list of majors.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vincent Van Der Hyde
The truth will set you free.
07:33 PM on 02/01/2013
So,
the purpose of getting and 'education'
is simply
to get a job and make money.
Both silly and sad.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
david mielke
Nebraska liberal
09:49 PM on 02/01/2013
My grandsons, after learning trades that can't be outsourced, hav both opted to return to college to fill their minds with ideas. Both are born and bred liberals.
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maninal2
Without knowledge action is useless
05:20 AM on 02/02/2013
You have identified the core purpose behind eliminating any education that extends beyond job training. Get rid of one's ability to think and you get rid of liberals.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
amleth
big fan of humanity - very often disappointed
06:24 PM on 02/01/2013
Thank you for this much needed and important article. There is currently a race going on in NC to see whether this banker - um, governor - will cause everyone in the state to perish from poisoned water (fracking) or if he will cause the destruction of one of the nation's classic and enormously successful education systems. 
Make no mistake; McCrory is not merely spouting rhetoric. He is moving rapidly to use internal procedures in order to strip the NC university system of its abundantly rich programs of arts and humanities, and to mandate the public schools to do the same. 
This man is not simply ignorant; it is worse - he is a champion and proponent of ignorance and greed. It is no surprise that he and his ilk see no value in anything not engendering or subject to the whims of money and its acquisition. 

As an immigrant to NC (twice!) and holder of an advanced degree from Chapel Hill, with a wife who holds three degrees from UNC CH and is a consultant for the state education department (in science, thankfully, otherwise her job would be in jeopardy), and a son who attended NC State, the election of this person as governor here was anticipated with dread by our family. That anticipation has been richly borne out, and clearly our adopted state is headed for grim and oppressive times.

Many here fully expected McCrory to be a disaster for this state, and he has hastened full speed to fulfill that expectation.
08:57 PM on 02/01/2013
Empathy and understanding from here in KS.

This will be the fate of the KS universities and colleges all too soon. The governor has cut the state budget by 40% this year alone, after three previous years of cuts. He says his goal is to devolve education funding to the cities (eliminating the 65% of education funding that used to come from the state).

His "education reform" commission, composed solely of businessmen, headed by an insurance salesman, has looked at K-12 education in the state and conlcuded that with so many rural counties having fewer than 4000 students, that's "inefficient." They're questioning whether each county needs to have its own schools. I hope those rural voters who voted this governor into office are paying attention.

If the governor next targets higher education, he may have plenty of support from his rural Republican voters, though. Many of them don't see any use for higher education and don't believe their taxes should have to subsidize it.

These are sad and worrisome times for our red states.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
amleth
big fan of humanity - very often disappointed
09:59 PM on 02/01/2013
Thank you for the empathy and the local info. Yes, it is looking bad on the ground in many states, not only red ones. When the business and banking world finally completely rules us, we will be too similar to the serfs and peasants of the middle ages to see a difference. They are already very close to accomplishing that. 40% of American households will go under in the next serious economic emergency. The gov of NJ just vetoed a program that would rehab foreclosed homes and put people in them who had lost their homes to the banks in the 2008 crash and grab. The pols who ought be on our side do nothing but spout platitudes, while the other side takes effective action and ends up with our homes, our jobs, and our money. I don't see where there will be a reversal of what is happening. At 73 I will not see the culmination of it, but I despair for the next generations. I think they are irretrievably lost. Sadly, "game over."
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
George Kaplan Observes
Witness to the fascinating Parade of Humanity
03:35 AM on 02/02/2013
The Rural Voters will find out what this means, when Johnny and Susie have to ride 4 hours every day to go to school.

Or, perhaps, when they have to take over 'home schooling', and begin to grasp how monumental a task that is, in order to do it properly.

I suspect that the cry will rise up from the rural areas that "it's not fair! The cities get to have schools near their kids, and we don't!"

At which point, the same politicians who think this is a good idea will propose new legislation -- to distribute school $$$ more 'equitably' toward the rural areas.

And, no one is going to bat an eyebrow at the wasteful exercise, costing taxpayers $$$, the whole thing will be.

Just a guess.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sydneymoon
09:43 AM on 02/03/2013
Agree
05:22 PM on 02/01/2013
I sometimes wonder if the impacts of the GI Bill have come full-circle to a point where it has changed college to the point where it will harm our universities. The purpose of the university is to advance the limits of human knowledge through research and study, but with the GI Bill it increasingly came to be seen as just a ticket to a better job. Now, it seems this new ends (a job for individual undergrad students)is trumping the knowledge for society outcome for which the University exists in the first place. Instead of destroying our great universities (I see Wisconsin and a number of other major state flagship universities being pushed in this direction), we need a better discussion over the purpose of the universities and possibly an overhaul of our post-secondary education system to separate the universities from other colleges and institutions aimed specifically at job-skills training.
10:41 AM on 02/01/2013
It seems clear, however, that PhDs in philosophy or B.A.s in Women's Studies on average do not contribute to the STEM work force. I think this is what the governor was getting at. The BASIC LEVEL of technical education should be increased so that people with BAs in Women's Studies or Ph.Ds in Philosophy can do things (what is now almost grunt labor) like develop software and websites.
For now, however, subsidizing a PhD in Philosophy takes away the subsidization of a PhD in Engineering or something more directly useful for America to get ahead in the economic and intellectual race in which we seem to be losing steam.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mike Seeley
09:00 PM on 02/01/2013
I'm afraid you are giving him credit for thought that is clearly over his head.
09:05 PM on 02/01/2013
There isn't a shortage of engineers in this country. Several college presidents have tried to point out that they're having trouble placing their STEM graduates, especially engineers. This is a phony shortage pushed by CEOs who use this claim to pressure Congress into raising the H1B visa limit once again as they do every year.
09:37 AM on 02/02/2013
According to this article in the WSJ, there is a shortage in engineers, in addition to those with trade skills such as plumbers.

http://on.wsj.com/TqWPRW

Also, for your reference I would consult O*Net, which is an online database of occupations sponsored by the Department of Labor. A brief search for engineering jobs will show that there is a bright outlook for those that are entering or currently in the job market.

One fallacy I see on these boards is that people would have to learn a "trade" at the expense of learning to think. The class that made the biggest impact on me during college was Intro to Film, which fulfilled a general requirement for me.

I see nothing wrong with a governor wanting his constituents have jobs which will afford them better opportunities.
09:05 AM on 02/01/2013
I love Pat!
07:13 AM on 02/01/2013
Well said!
05:27 AM on 02/01/2013
Evidence that just any degree will do is incorrect: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/underemployed-overeducated_n_2568203.html