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09:43 PM on 11/08/2009
You are all too gentle on the "takeover" question. Private health insurers have not just taken over the healthcare industry. HR 3962 is not a takeover of healthcare by government, it's a takeover of government by the healthcare insurers. The Republicans have it exactly backwards.

Think about it: insurers are getting more customers, a permanent tap into the public till, and higher priced insurance. All by getting Congress to pass what they want, rather than what the voters want, which is single payer.
Citizen54
Conservatism is a con job!
11:38 AM on 11/09/2009
Yep.

Let's unemploy/uninsure every member of Congress in 2010 and 2012.

(Ok, we'll cut Kucinich some slack.)
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tbone99
cruisin' duality
09:42 PM on 11/08/2009
This bill is nothing but serving the citizenry to the health insurance industry for dinner.

It is deliberatey obsfucating and will require thousands more bureacrats to adminster to deny us the health care benefits we need . Billing jobs will multiply.
Since much of health care is sought in an emergency , we will see many more bankruptcies due to medical bills rise, as no one can ever be sure what they are legitimately paying for with the thousands of pages of fine print .
09:37 PM on 11/08/2009
My friends don't understand why I keep objecting to the newpaper headlines about "sweeping health care reform". There's no reform involved in delivering a captive market to the private insurance industry, there's very little "care" in the bill and virtually nothing that will avert the looming problems we face as the baby boomers age into Medicare.

Both the House and the Senate bills are financial services bills; they extend legislative committment to shore up finance companies no matter what happens to everyone else.

Recommendation #4.5: Ban direct to consumer ads for prescription drugs and prohibit the co-pay rebate cards. Both are designed to get patients to demand more expensive drugs and the rebates subvert attempts by pharmacy managers to inject a small sense of price sensitivity. Those two actions would save billions per year.
09:36 PM on 11/08/2009
So It took few weeks to pass the trillion dollar stimulus bill to bail out the irresponsible banks/institutions w/out any major opposition.

Yet when it comes to health care, trillion dollar over 10 years is a big issue? What am I missing in here? Am I not healthy enough to understand the issue in here?
10:41 PM on 11/08/2009
The price will be a lot higher than just a trillion dollar.
09:23 PM on 11/08/2009
A health care revolution is long overdue. Health care "reform"
will be the same ol' same ol' only more so.
09:21 PM on 11/08/2009
Nothing would have been better by far !
09:17 PM on 11/08/2009
I totally agree with Dr. Angell about limitations of the bill, although I disagree that it would be better to kill the whole thing. If we don't start somewhere now how much longer will this take?
I would add to her list the need for consistent and transparent pricing. As a provider I should be able to know what the insurance is going to pay and bill accordingly. Under the current system companies do not have to disclose their payment schedules and providers are forced to bill some inflated amount, knowing it will be cut down. If you bill the company the amount they pay, they will come back and tell you that charge less than other providers and so they will pay you even less. In addition, capitation companies like Aetna refuse to disclose what their capitation rate is, but want the provider to sign a contract that he has been given all necessary information. This is a sick system.
In addition, I would add to the suggestion that there should be a way to identify docs who order significantly more tests than others in the specialty that this should be by diagnosis. I am an internist but care for many people with HIV infection. I have sicker patients who require more care than many other internists and I have been repeatedly penalized over the last 20 years for this.
09:14 PM on 11/08/2009
The main goal should be to get the public option and pre-existing condition done. Once it's in and done (even in weak form) they can work on it, but getting it in is the hard part. I am sickened and ashamed to say that my state Representative, Rep. Scott Murphy NY 20th was one of the dems that voted no. He said he was for the public option but couldn't support the current bill, what an idiot, there will be NO SECOND SHOT on this one in the foreseeable future. All that did was embolden the right wing loonies and cast doubt upon the Bluedogs/Undercover republicans. You've got to get the refrigerator in the door before you can plug it in and get it working.
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Lordstrom
libertarian stock trader, wrestling fan, buddhist
09:02 PM on 11/08/2009
The worst part of this tyrannical bill is people who can not pay the thousands of dollars in fines(15K for a family according to CBO) for not having health insurance can be thrown in prison and fined again for a quarter million dollars.

In other words, if you breath and don't give any money to a health insurance company, you will be fined. If you can not pay, you are going to prison. Outrageous.
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tbone99
cruisin' duality
09:43 PM on 11/08/2009
Link?
10:44 PM on 11/08/2009
None, because not true.
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WoodyCPM
Now what?
10:59 PM on 11/08/2009
That's absurd. We don't have debtors' prison in the U.S.
Citizen54
Conservatism is a con job!
11:42 AM on 11/09/2009
People who do not comply won't be jailed as "debtors." They will be jailed because they didn't buy insurance or pay the fine.

And for those who doubt this, read the bill. There are several clauses that stipulate the option of jailing people who do not buy insurance. It's there in Congressional black and white.
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propitiousmoment
the journey is the destination....
08:43 PM on 11/08/2009
All this and it screws women's reproductive rights as well. I think I'm going to move to Australia.
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Solja
08:41 PM on 11/08/2009
It seems to me that all you have addressed here is Medicare. Well I am 46 and uninsured, and so are 3 of my 4 adult kids. Your "solution" to health care reform is screw everybody under 55. Let 'em wait a decade plus for affordable health care.

Frankly, everyone that stands to benefit from others' health care is not trustworthy. Every one of you are in it for something for yourselves. My family is in it for our health.
09:40 PM on 11/08/2009
The Senate bill will apply inflated taxes on individual policies that over 50s pay for themselves just to get comprehensive care -- to subsidize care for you and your family. But it won't have any effect on the self-insured plans that have no copays or deductibles. How is that fair?
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tbone99
cruisin' duality
09:44 PM on 11/08/2009
The reasoning must be by killing off people under 65 means there will be fewer people to draw Medicare
Peabodies
We are the Many. They are the Few.
08:26 PM on 11/08/2009
Dr. Angell -- This is very disheartening. I hope you get invited on Bill Moyers' Journal again so that you can give your thoughts to millions who need to hear what you have to say. Is there hope that the Senate will get it right? I sure hope so, I sure hope so, Dr. Angell.
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BurtR
10:33 PM on 11/08/2009
I'm afraid not many listen to Moyers