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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
botan
ConnectTheLeft
10:22 PM on 12/05/2009
I hear the mouth breathers talking a lot about independents. It’s much preferable to mention them than the GOP base. Currently, only 17% of likely voters identify themselves as Republican. With such low, basement level numbers the GOP will need to get at least 60-70% percent of the independent votes in order to make a grand slam this coming fall. That’s just not going to happen, the tea party traitors are just making things up once more.
10:39 PM on 12/05/2009
Republicans have a 7 point lead over dems in the generic ballot. Nice try to spin number from 2006.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
botan
ConnectTheLeft
11:01 PM on 12/05/2009
The numbers are from 2009, nice try at spin there.
10:44 PM on 12/05/2009
October 26, 2009
Conservatives Maintain Edge as Top Ideological GroupCompared with 2008, more Americans “conservative” in general, and on issuesby Lydia Saad
PRINCETON, NJ -- Conservatives continue to outnumber moderates and liberals in the American populace in 2009, confirming a finding that Gallup first noted in June. Forty percent of Americans describe their political views as conservative, 36% as moderate, and 20% as liberal. This marks a shift from 2005 through 2008, when moderates were tied with conservatives as the most prevalent group.

Not to be rude, but it sounds like you don't know what you are talking about.
10:51 PM on 12/05/2009
Party affiliation and ideological preference are two different things. One can be a conservative Democrat; many are. The problem is that Republicans only believe in limited government and states' rights when they're out of power. When they're in power, they enjoy the power of a strong federal government very much.
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StillIRise
The past, present and future are one
11:15 PM on 12/05/2009
Not to be rude but ... conservatism is not defined by one's party affiliation.

There are conservative Democrats, conservative Republicans and conservative Independents, as well as conservative Libertarians. Most Americans - whether Democrat or Republican - are also conservative in some areas while liberal or moderate in others.

In recent months, particularly since the election, many Republicans or right-wingers have been identifying themselves as conservatives because they recognize that the Republican label has lost credibility, and they believe that the conservative label gives them legitimacy. But just because they call themselves conservatives, doesn't make them conservatives. In fact, true conservatives have been abandoning the Republican Party since before the election, especially after McCain brought Palin on board.

Today's Republican Party has in fact lost moderate Republicans and true conservatives solely because of the wannabe conservatives (the Limbaugh crowd) with whom they no longer want to identify.
10:16 PM on 12/05/2009
They say the GOP is fractured. I think the Democrats are the fractured ones. The GOPers only disagree amongst themselves on one issue -- who can race fastest to the right side of the cliff. They have the same beliefs; they vote mostly the same way. Meanwhile, Democrats are all over the place -- left, progressive, centrist, blue dog...

Heres my worry: Democratic voters will take their ball and go home because they don't like the game being played. And the other team will win, even though they are a minority.
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NativeSonII
Be Happy!
10:35 PM on 12/05/2009
I think you are on to something.
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StillIRise
The past, present and future are one
11:05 PM on 12/05/2009
Reading some of the comments that are often posted on this site, I can understand and also share your concerns.

We, as Democrats, have become our own worse enemy.

To me, the fact that we are party of a broad scope of ideas that are all founded on the same basic values and vision for our country, is a blessing. Our ideological diversity (left, right and center) as well as our racial, ethnic, religious and lifestyle diversity truly represents the American spirit, which is a good thing! But unfortunately, our diversity is also a curse, as you've noted.

Striking a balance and compromise and sometimes not having it our way, but never losing sight of our common goal, is the way of politics, and occasionally it's the only way ... but there are some in our party who believe that it's their way or the highway, and to me these individuals are the biggest threat to the integrity of our party. I find nothing wrong in constructive criticism and debate within our party ranks, and in fact, this is what keeps us focused and on target. But when we threaten to throw out the baby with the bath water, something is terribly wrong!!!

The GOP is in a pathetic state; yet, if we are defeated by them, we will have defeated ourselves!
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NativeSonII
Be Happy!
11:12 PM on 12/05/2009
Good post. I appreciate your insight.

PS: cute baby!
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Badfickle
12:16 AM on 12/06/2009
Well right now the Dems are the party of the Big Tent. While the Republicans, because of their failings over the last 8 years (in reality more like 30) are driving to a "pure" ideology. Instead of saying gee we tried this and it failed they've decided they just weren't "pure" enough. So they are pushing to the far right extreme. So yeah the Dems are fighting because they have diverse views and the far right have removed the moderates from the GOP.

We will see.
10:02 PM on 12/05/2009
The Tea Party movement is one of the best things to happen to American in a long time. Patriots coming together to demand limited government. Cut the federal government in both scope and scale.
10:24 PM on 12/05/2009
You are free to opt out of any government services you do not wish to participate in.
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NativeSonII
Be Happy!
10:26 PM on 12/05/2009
someone still has to pay for it.
10:37 PM on 12/05/2009
Really? I can opt out of social security?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
botan
ConnectTheLeft
09:06 PM on 12/05/2009
All the DNC has to do is run spots showing the tea party traitors and the statements of many GOP politicos to make their case this fall. Historically, the opposition party usually makes gains in the mid-terms. More than likely this election will be no different; however, will it be like the Republican Revolution during the Clinton years? At this time that’s highly doubtful, the GOP keeps offering old politics and old policies. In other words their strategy is do nothing. Furthermore, the historical GOP response to economic turmoil is deficit spending with tax cuts. That didn’t work for Bush these past eight years and helped to create the current problem we find ourselves in now. Once more, the GOP has nothing but “cultural” issues to run on. Taking into account the current culture running the GOP, I don’t see much being solved just a lot of hypocrisy.
10:03 PM on 12/05/2009
2010 will be a slaughter, count on it.
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NativeSonII
Be Happy!
10:36 PM on 12/05/2009
Let's hope so.
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09:05 PM on 12/05/2009
The “Tea Parties”, or “Tea braggers” if you prefer are not the problem, they are a symptom of the problem. A lot of people are pissed off at both parties. They believe the Federal Government has screwed them. According to Pew Research “The mood of America is glum. Two-thirds of the public is dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country. Fully nine-in-ten say that national economic conditions are only fair or poor, and nearly two-thirds describe their own finances that way -- the most since the summer of 1992” the study reports “Support for congressional incumbents is particularly low among political independents. Only 42% of independent voters want to see their own representative re-elected and just 25% would like to see most members of Congress re-elected. Both measures are near all-time lows in Pew Research surveys.”

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1405/widespread-anti-incumbent-sentiment-obama-approval-afghanistan-troop-levels
09:37 PM on 12/05/2009
Yeah, but do independents vote more regularly than either republicans or democrats? They might not like the incumbents, but will that translate into voting them out or sitting it out? Just a hypothetical question, if anyone knows the voting history of independents.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Balzac
08:54 PM on 12/05/2009
On the subject of tea and tea bags:

Tea, Earl Grey, Hot - this is what Captain Jean Luc Picard of the USS Enterprise would typically order from the Star Trek food synthesizer. The Boston Tea party was a venerable populist movement. Frat-boys made tea-bags into a distasteful meme, but it's not good for the Earl Grey or Lipton brands and for all the venerable kinds of tea from the orient, such as King Mountain Tea from China (A personal favourite of mine).

Tea-Baggers may need to be re-branded because they're not in keeping with the spirit of the Tea Party anyway, they're being represented which is causing general anxiety not appreciated by the gay community. Gay marriage just got defeated in Albany and I don't know who to blame for this failure.
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tnkeating
Dyslexic agnostic insomniac
08:17 PM on 12/05/2009
thats what I'm talkin about.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
botan
ConnectTheLeft
08:00 PM on 12/05/2009
All the GOP has to run on is racism and hatred.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
billhodges
Self Reliant Yet Charitable
08:30 PM on 12/05/2009
The conservatives are not in any way racist nor are we about hatred. All we are doing is questioning this administration and listening to their own words which many now do not like and that is why the landscape has changed. You know like the Hope & Change Obama promised but was nothing like what the voters thought they were getting.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mltmama
08:55 PM on 12/05/2009
Hope & Change are alive and well. Your party screwed this country up for years and President Obama is fighting a one-sided battle to turn it back around. It will take years to dig us out of this mess. As soon as more jobs open up, everyone's attitudes will be more positive. Get real and think for yourself.
09:24 PM on 12/05/2009
How can there be hope and change when the GOP refuses to do anything but say no. He can't do it alone and as long as Congress refuses to cooperate.

Mostly it looks as though the tea baggers are following the lead of folks who make racism and intolerance acceptable.
07:58 PM on 12/05/2009
Arianna is correct, with independents falling toward the Republicans and the base of the Democratic Party unemployed without hope for finding a job. With Cap and Trade, higher taxes, un-needed medical reform and confusion in the Administration which keeps small business from hiring the Democratic Party is in BIG Trouble. They have no answers it is like a bunch of kids trying to pretend that they are running the country and what they are doing is ruining the country. They have a jobs summit and don’t include anyone that ever created a job. Unions do not create jobs, the government does not create jobs, they only redirect tax money into make work jobs. The arrogance of the administration will be the downfall of the Democrats
08:38 PM on 12/05/2009
That is such BS. Rome wasn't built in a day. The pile of elephant dung the republicans left us is just beginning to be shoveled through. I think by this time next year things will be improving and the democrats will point at the republicans and say "He/She was against the stimulus, against healthcare reform, and for failure" and Americans, who have a notoriously short political attention span, will realize that the mess that was left is being cleaned up. Lower health insurance premiums alone will do the trick and that's why the republicans are throwing every obstacle in the way. The party of "family values" and christianity isn't acting very christian. But that's no surprise!
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NativeSonII
Be Happy!
09:00 PM on 12/05/2009
I agree with you but I hardly see the Tea Party movement as a far right fringe group. They are middle class hard working Americans that are tired of being taxed into proverty. Good post; fanned.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DocRockk
09:37 PM on 12/05/2009
I couldn't disagree more. The Tea Baggers are definitively and demonstrably mostly white, male, older, less educated, more rural than urban, and extreme, hostile and angry in many, many instances. They are the lunatic fringe.

Some of the people you are talking about are just those misguided and gullible Beck, Hannity, & Limbaugh listeners. Critical thinking isn't their specialty.
09:43 PM on 12/05/2009
We'll see where it goes. My humble opinion is that they are hard working Americans who are being scared into worrying about death panels, socialism and unending deficits (even though unending deficts weren't a problem for them before and Reagan warned of socialism when medicare was passed) When things stabilize and turn around they will see that their fears were exaggerated and will have to ask themselves: Go with proven, experienced people or with Sarah? Hands down, the American people will vote for "staying the course".
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aintnogod
Done there, been that. Ate a few good meals too.
07:44 PM on 12/05/2009
If there's anything that proves the American public is confused, it's the Independent swing toward the Republicans. I listened to everything that Obama promised during his campaign, and except for sending troops to Afghanistan, he's making good, or trying to make good on all his promises. The only force holding Obama back from keeping his promises is the Republican Party and Lieberman. So... except for doing differently than he's doing and harming the middle class, I don't know what to make of the Independents. Didn't they listen to his campaign? So far he's kept to that promise.

Why would any Independent vote for the Republican Party which since Reagan has seen the greatest shift of wealth away from the middle class to the richest class. If the Independents want to vote for Republicans, then so be it... America goes back to backwardness.
08:39 PM on 12/05/2009
Only because the republican party has their own propaganda machine: Fake News and Hate Radio. People are being misinformed and lied to. The truth doesn't get out.
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NativeSonII
Be Happy!
11:08 PM on 12/05/2009
You have the Lib talking points down, now you need to learn how to apply it.
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
07:28 PM on 12/05/2009
There's gotta be a position so extreme for the teabaggers to take that not even the most conservative citizens would agree with it.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SnapShots
Look me in the eyes and say that.
07:11 PM on 12/05/2009
Americans have been marketed into the 'instant gratification' lifestyle since the 1950s. Now that people are hurting more than two generations have ever seen, they expect 'instant gratification' in fixing it. Sorry folks. Aint gonna happen. Obama has done more work in ten months than George Bush has done in a lifetime. Two years from now that will be glarilgly evident to those who don't see it now.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
thinkagain2
07:14 PM on 12/05/2009
good points
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
danceswithtrees
07:08 PM on 12/05/2009
"First of all, the rise of independents and secondly the fact that independents are now favoring Republicans over Democrats. So there are many problems for both parties."

Ariana: How is the independents RUNNING from the likes of Obama, Geitner, Rahm, Harry and Nancy bad for the Republicans. I see a slaughter in 2010. My how fast did the Dems fuch this one up!
08:52 PM on 12/05/2009
it takes more than a year to fix the absolute destruction reaked on this country by republicans buddy
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
themodernleader
06:36 PM on 12/05/2009
Chormy. There is no such contraption as a right to left political continuum except on the lips of those who wish a frightened and gullible people to vote one way or another. The issue is always: "Who is running the show?" Right now the American people of all political persuasions are being turned into servants who must not ask any questions or voice an intelligent issue.
06:07 PM on 12/05/2009
Policies don't matter since they are rarely implemented once in office. (troops to Afghanistan, rich now means less that 250K). What matters to the American public is a good speaker. Someone who can sway the crowd with great oratorical skills "They' don't really need a great leader, 'they' need someone who can quickly be trained to orate. Someone who can quickly be polished into a 'nice family picture'. THIS is what we voted for and will vote for again. the problem will be, current guy in office now has several black (oh give it up - so not a r.a.cis.t comment) marks on his record. So, the new and improved great speaker will be able to wow and swing and audience. We are a populace of video games and 30 minute sit coms. Attention and thoughtfulness is not to high at the moment. . . Oh LOOK - Sparkly object - gotta go”