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kerriberri
Let's Obviate Obfuscation!
09:49 AM on 05/23/2010
Does anyone honestly think that any world class athlete's EGO would permit him to stand up and admit "doping did it for me"?

It's virtually Impossible. They prefer (naturally) to bask in our admiration for their hard work, dedication, superior genes, etc. Who would want to admit that his victories were actually the byproduct of having the best BIOCHEMIST on his team?

This reminds me of the days when everyone was arguing over whether Arnold Schwarzenegger used steroids to bulk up or whether Joe Average could just spend 8 hours a day in the gym to get 40 inch biceps. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Arnold never answered that question until after he had to have heart bypass surgery in his early 50's. Kudos to him that he did discuss it. I think the whole sport needs to come clean; perhaps they will have a baseball catharsis; Landis's revelations may be just the first domino in the cascade.
11:20 AM on 05/23/2010
Agreed, KerriBerri, but I differ in that there are no "Kudos" to Arnie for copping to that stupidity decades (DECADES!) after the fact. Too many kids look(ed) up to him and he shoulda come clean waaaaayyy earlier.

"The Terminator" -- my ayyy&&. He'll be feeling the effects of how long that replacement part "works" (isn't it a pig's valve?)........NOT!
And the point with this is, nothing, nada, nichts, comes close to what our original bodies constitute our-selves in, in the way of body matter. Thus, replacements are a poor copy, at the very very best, of what God & Nature gave us.
In my view, folks who mess wid dat, they are up for some real falls and come-uppences.

Sooner or later..... and this applies to Arnie, to Lance, to Floyd, and all 'em gangs of USERS.

Sure, they can do whatever they please, just don't make it "okay" for the kids to copy withOUT fully informing them of the consequences.

Ya see?
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jalowe1957
Poisonous epitaphs dished out periodically.
03:34 AM on 05/23/2010
Floyd Landis' book, "Positively False," was last seen languishing on store shelves at the 99-Cent-Only stores in Southern California, where everything is priced at 99.99 cents or less...
10:12 AM on 05/23/2010
I don't know how many copies were sold when the book was originally published, but as the credited author, Landis probably received a large advance to write it -- or more likely, to have it ghostwritten with his name on it. Even if the publisher took a bath on it, Landis himself profited from creating and promoting a book full of lies. I wonder how much of his advance Landis plans on either returning to the publisher or donating to charity. Probably no one cent.
12:23 AM on 05/23/2010
"while also expecting us to believe his accusations against Lance Armstrong, Levi Leipheimer, Dave Zabriskie, George Hincapie and Jim Ochowicz. It's staggeringly ballsy."

What planet do you live on? It is fairly obvious to anyone that has studied basic biology that the types of improvement seen in cycling and virtually every other sport over the past few decades is not due to evolution or Power Bars or legal pills. If you want to be a champion in a sport that requires muscular or pulmonary endurance or strength, you need to take steroids and/or blood dope, etc. etc
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Repubnomore
05:22 PM on 05/24/2010
A lot has changed in cycling. The equipment - from frames to drivetrains to wheelsets - improves almost yearly. Conditioning, training, off-bike nutrition, and on-bike nutrition has advanced, as well. Communication on the race course and overall team strategy is also vastly different than before.

Cycling has evolved. You can't discount this entirely. It's like comparing Michael Jordan to Jerry West - different eras, different style of play, different levels of athleticism, and a higher level of competition.

The best way to compare cycling's progress is peer-to-peer. If LA's team was the only one doping, season after season, don't you think that competing riders would cry foul loudly? Either they were all doing it or none of them were doing it. Either way, the playing field was level.

The only people that know for certain are the riders themselves and so far, only Floyd is being vocal. It's not the highest paying professional sport and it seems that Floyd has more bills to pay than he'll ever be able to with his tainted reputation and limited skills off the bike.
05:31 PM on 05/22/2010
I can just see Armstrong being interviewed and asked about accusations of doping. His answer "I don't want to talk about the past".
09:11 PM on 05/22/2010
Armstrong has used his fame to promote some positive causes, and I would really love to believe that he is clean. Sorry, I just can't -- and this has nothing to do with Landis. The sport is notoriously dirty, so it's not logical to believe that its most celebrated participant is squeaky clean.

In the past, Armstrong has sounded just like McGuire. He doesn't say that he has never doped. Instead, he says, "My tests always come back clean."

Yes, Landis is a liar, and now he's turning into an attention whore. He shouldn't be pointing fingers at anyone unless he can produce some proof. I must add, however, that anyone with the infamous Dr. Galea on his dance card is probably dirty.
10:19 PM on 05/24/2010
Armstrong says "My tests always come back clean" a lot, but he has also unambiguously stated he has never took performance enhancing substances a number of times.
05:23 PM on 05/22/2010
It is to the point that in every sport anywhere on Earth, if a lot of prize money, endorsements or million dollar contracts are involved, it is a given that drugs are involved. Lance Armstrong as great as he might be could not be competitive against equally talented or even nearly as talented dopers. It's like that in football, baseball, boxing, etc. Why would cycling be different? Even those who test clean have to be suspect if they are highly competitive and win consistently. If testing was absolutely, irrefutably reliable each and every time, then Armstrong would probably still be at the top because every rider's drug-free performance would be diminished, thereby equaling the playing field. To defend him and deny that he uses is foolhardy. Currently, there is a way around every test it seems, no matter how new and reliable. When $millions are involved these professionals hire the top minds to help them get around each test. Winning the tour 7 times (with cancer, even) is like Bobby Bonds hitting 73 home runs in a season and almost 800 overall. This is a new era in sports and I don't think we're going back. Too much money is involved.
05:11 PM on 05/22/2010
Yet another story -- it isn't going away....until it gets resolved. One way or another.

Here is the link to another article I just read and found fascinating:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37274425/ns/sports-other_sports//
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
08:38 AM on 05/22/2010
Floyd Landis remindes me of another filthy liar who ended up writing a book and was later shown to never have uttered the truth - of course I'm talking about Jose Canseco and his tales of major league baseball players using steroids. Talk about tall tales!
Why, I still believe Roger Clemens, Raphael Palmero and Barry Bonds when they say they never touched the stuff! So what if Bonds wore a 42 size jersey in 1993 but was a 52 ten years later - he was young and still growing.
05:27 PM on 05/22/2010
Hee hee.
08:54 PM on 05/22/2010
Hilarious!!! And JC, so V-I-N-D-I-C-A-T-E-D!!! Take that Bobbie Cee.
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Roger Strukhoff
08:03 AM on 05/22/2010
I think it would help Floyd's case if he seemed to act a little less like Norman Bates.
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spassmeister
to thine own self be true
12:19 AM on 05/22/2010
It's a shame that Floyd could not come clean without attempting to take down the sport with him. what is his motivation? It seemed he truly loved cycling at one time. And why now? Why not when LeMond was calling and begging him to do it? Where did that get LeMond? a drunken phone call from floyd's manager teasing him about sexual abuse LeMond underwent as a child...along with a threat to expose it if LeMond testified against Floyd.

And how did LeMond respond? by defending Floyd:

“I imagine from my own experiences that today he is paying a heavy price for his honesty and I support Floyd in his attempt to free himself from his past” (according to LeMond's website.

Floyd's confession - which did not include the tour in 2006 - smells funny. We all have to decide which of this weeks "truths" are factual.
10:26 PM on 05/21/2010
Folks, whether you like it or not: FA is implicating many "greats of cycling," just as Canseco called it ages ago and NO ONE WAS listening -- do you see any parallels? Or do you just not want to take a look.
There will be a version of "VINDICATED" (by J.C.) coming out in the cycling 'industry," written by an insider. Just wait -- and, hey, I told you FIRST!!!!
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Martin Houde
I am no microbe
11:10 AM on 05/23/2010
There are big differences between Landis and Canseco.

Landis was caught doping. Canseco never was.

Also, baseball's drug testing before Canseco's accusations was non-existent. Meanwhile, drug testing for cyclists was already the most stringent in the world. In the Tour de France, they test stage winners and standing leaders every day, in addition to random testing among other riders.

Did Armstrong dope ? I don't know. Seven wins of the Tour in a row is a feat nobody has ever done. At the same time, past top cyclists like Merckx, Indurain, LeMond did win several Tours in a row or not, but they did not apply the same focus as Armstrong did on the Tour. They competed to win in other events as well, which Armstrong never did.

Two years ago, when Astana was barred from the TDF, Alberto Contador won both the Giro (Italy) and the Vuelta (Spain), the two other great 3-week Tours in the cycling year. To my knowledge, he is the first one to win two grand Tours on the same year. Armstrong never even attempted this. The Tour de France is more prestigious, so a lot of people concentrate on it. Armstrong had the luxury on trying only it, which may help explain part of his dominance. In a way, especially in the US, Armstrong helped make the TDF even more prestigious compared to the Giro and the Vuelta, though both of these are not really easier to win.
02:36 PM on 05/23/2010
Yes, indeed, there are significant differences between Armstrong/Bonds-Clemens-et al and Landis/Canseco. I hope you didn't think I didn't recognize that. I do appreciate the critical contextualization; Lance has been a brilliant technician as well, picking and choosing which races to run. He is and was, regardless of what the results are, an amazing athlete for so many reasons.
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Repubnomore
06:05 PM on 05/24/2010
Two Bianchi riders won two tours in the same year. Coppi in '49 and '52 (TDF & Giro). Pantani won the same two in 1998. Throughout the years, it wasn't uncommon for the same rider to win one or two of the great tours, plus the World Championship (when they had them).

Your point is well taken. LA trained only for the tour. His equipment was better (relative to Lemond's era). Communication on the course was better. Nutrition and training were also more advanced. It's a different level of competition than in the past.
10:06 PM on 05/21/2010
No, FL is NOT lying.... let's "talk" again in about a month, at most. I don't appreciate your kind of argument -- don't argue with fame & status.
Yeah, that's why we have the mess we have now.
For folks who want to inform themselves, see the other discussions here at HuffPo on this topic. Several posters have provided links to EVIDENCE.
Get real, Bobbie! -- this is not a forum for American Idol-ization!!
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
08:41 PM on 05/22/2010
Evita, don't doubt that Mr. Cesca is paid very well for his "opinion" on this matter. And that sometimes "payment" for those in the sports media who toe the comapny line can't simply be added up in simple dollars and cents. There are many other ways sports "journalists" can be compensated for "playing ball."
08:56 PM on 05/22/2010
Ahhhh haahhh. Verrry interesting, and enlightening. I honestly, too duh to have thought of that, didn't even consider that angle on this. Fanned for your insights!
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Bob Cesca
09:11 AM on 05/23/2010
I don't get paid.
02:22 PM on 05/25/2010
"No, FL is NOT lying"

yes, he is.

"Several posters have provided links to EVIDENCE"

no, they haven't.
07:46 PM on 05/21/2010
Geez Bob, I guess we don't need drug testing anymore. You can tell if someone is juicing just by their riding style or their "class". What did we read about Hamilton before he was popped? "Gritty, determined, gutsy cyclist that won a stage of the tour w/ a broken collarbone." Hardly a doping prospect. How about Landis? "A rider from humble beginnings and a Menonite upbringing." Doper? No way. Were you born yesterday Bob? Does Santa still visit you on Christmas morning?

The only guys who might be clean in the entire peloton ride for teams that do blood profiling - see team Garmin-Slipstream. All others are suspect regardless of how fondly you think of them.

Furthermore, if cycling has such great testing techniques why did it take so many years before Landis was busted? Oh, that's right he's lying. Well how about Hamilton, or Vino? Or the fact that Basso never failed a test, but he's a shell of his former self after being implicated in Operation Puerto.

If you want people to take your article seriously you would do well to lose your rose-colored glasses.
05:18 PM on 05/22/2010
VERY fanned! My sentiments to a "t"!
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johnrandall
free, sort of
03:17 PM on 05/23/2010
For reference, Basso's shell of his former self decimated the Giro D'Italia field today.
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Bob Cesca
07:46 AM on 05/24/2010
He drilled up 22% grades like he was on a weekend club ride, while Cadel and the others could barely turn their pedals over. Scarponi almost collapsed at the line and Vino nearly swerved into the barrier.
06:38 PM on 05/21/2010
just a little light reading, so as some of you can make a more informed opinion
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16226502/Lance-Armstrong-Doping-History
10:10 PM on 05/21/2010
So wish I could fan you again, RocketScientist :) !!!!! Yours is one of the links/posts I refer to (above) in giving bobbie some guff back.
Honestly, this NOT about trashing LA; it's about setting the record straight. But you can tell from the defensive tone & stance of this fanarticle, we're just no hearing anything new.
03:56 PM on 05/22/2010
"RocketScientist".... I hope it was said in the nicest of ways?
02:17 PM on 05/25/2010
"you can tell from the defensive tone & stance of this fanarticle, we're just no hearing anything new."

True, nothing new in rocketboys article either. "everybody says you're doping, therefore you are a doper".

Proof, please?
05:49 PM on 05/21/2010
I don't want to think that Lance and the rest of his team are cheats. And I certainly do not believe most of what Landis says. However, none of these pro athletes will get the benefit of my doubt anymore. In the last five years I have seen too many of them look straight into the camera and protest their innocence, only to have it come out later that they were dirty the whole time.
05:16 PM on 05/22/2010
I feel the very same way. But what I do want is that attempts are made to find out the truth! -- and, why?? Also precisely because you put it best, Ben: I want to be able to see star athletes look straight into the camera and be sure they are telling the truth. Adults can deal with lies (perhaps, actually, very questionable -- it is de-moralizing!), kids and children, no.
Folks need to step up to the plate and tell it like it is.

I don't like stories a la Cesspool, above, where they just want to make it stop, make it go away. Bunch of crybabies, if you ask me.
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05:01 PM on 05/21/2010
Bob, I assert that Floyd Landis suffers from a level of competitiveness that becomes irrationale, arrogant, amoral, selfdestructive. Many athletes harbor this. Landis has lost everything and yet seeks to compete with the best still, and so his only avenue is uncredible personal attacks. He's like the boxer who's been beaten until his face is a pulpish mess, can't see, can barely breathe, but still get's up to fight. Many people celebrate it in boxing, but it takes other forms. When that same boxer is defeated and the next day exclaims he didnt loose because the winner cheated and is a wimp, that's the same irrationale, unethical competitiveness.