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05:55 PM on 06/26/2010
While everyone is going off on a Tourettes trist about illegals from Mexico driving our country to it’s demise, let’s step back and remember that prior to the game changing effects of 9/11, no one gave much concern to immigrants coming across the border for work. We all liked cheap produce, someone to clean our homes, and labor for the largest building boom across the Southwest.
Okay, things have changed since 9/11. We have to secure our borders because bad guys are trying to kill us.
The Feds beefed up border protection in San Diego and Texas first, relying on the rugged terrain of Arizona to act as a deterrent until the border security in AZ is complete. This “funneled” everyone wanting to cross into the AZ border region. Don’t worry; we are spending our treasure on the 350 miles of the AZ border. It will get done.
The question is what happens to all of those who came here prior to 9/11? At that time, we all looked the other way and enjoyed our $1.50 lb tomatoes. They came, they worked, they obeyed our laws, started families, became part of the fabric of the country.
Those people of whom I speak deserve to be forgiven of their trespasses because we sanction them thru our complacency.
Secure the borders and provide amnesty to those already in this country who have not been involved in criminal activity or gang affiliation.
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EbonBear
opinionated hairy man
04:07 PM on 06/26/2010
Three-quarters of talk about immigration is just racism playing dress up. The problem is that in order to have an actual discussion about immigration like rational adults, we have to wade through this minefield on the way.
05:27 PM on 06/26/2010
I know it is hard for you to get it, BUT IT IS NOT ABOUT RACISM! this is a lie and myth perpetrated by you and others. IT IS ABOUT BEING HERE ILLEGALLY, AND SUCKING THE $$$$$$ OUT OF THE POCKETS OF LEGAL CITIZENS!
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EbonBear
opinionated hairy man
05:38 PM on 06/26/2010
I didn't say it was ALL about racism, just three-quarters of it. However, your stereotyping of illegals "SUCKING THE $$$$$$ OUT OF THE POCKETS OF LEGAL CITIZENS" is not exactly convincing me otherwise.
07:10 PM on 06/26/2010
"IT IS ABOUT BEING HERE ILLEGALLY" Amnesty will take care of this concern. They no longer will be here illegally.
03:54 PM on 06/26/2010
If someone breaks the law then they should be punished. Employers who hire people without papers should have to pay every doller to the government, and the person working without papers should be deported. If I can not drive my car without proper papers, then why should you. There a ways to obtain papers, we are not denying anyone citezinship as long as it is done the right way. Our country appreciates what is gained by immegrents, but if you are illigal than you should go.

We are paying taxes for people who are not, paying for people to have children, we are paying not them. They are working and making tax free money while recieving free healthcare, and welfare it's crazy and has to end sometime.
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nmaddog7
01:39 AM on 06/27/2010
Faved fanned
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Phil11514
02:42 AM on 06/28/2010
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE BOLSTERING SOCIAL SECURITY WITH BILLIONS OF DOLLARS

STOCKTON, Calif. - Since illegally crossing into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit, often working as much as 70 hours a week.

Mr. Martínez has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term problems. But Mr. Martínez contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of America's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare when they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

As the Social Security debate heats up, the estimated seven million illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money totaled 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what it receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in benefits.

Illegal immigration, Marcelo Suárez-Orozco, co-director of immigration studies at New York University, noted sardonically, could provide "the fastest way to shore up the long-term finances of Social Security."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html
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NoahVail
...a curmudgeon from So. Arizona
03:42 PM on 06/26/2010
None of this is new. Fas¢ism is a force which remains in the dark corners and edges of society until there is crisis and uncertainty, at which point desperate masses may grasp for this simplistic, yet very dangerous straw.

The Know Nothing movement was a nativist American political movement of the 1840s and 1850s. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by German and Irish Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to Anglo-Saxon values and controlled by the Pope in Rome. Mainly active from 1854 to 1856, it strove to curb immigration and naturalization, though its efforts met with little success. Membership was limited to Protestant males of British lineage over the age of twenty-one. There were few prominent leaders, and the largely middle-class and entirely Protestant membership fragmented over the issue of slavery. Most ended up joining the Republican Party by the time of the 1860 presidential election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing
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JavaManiac
...with liberty and justice for all
03:36 PM on 06/26/2010
I agree with the sign on the front page - this is about AZ racism and not about their borders.

Boycott AZ
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NoahVail
...a curmudgeon from So. Arizona
03:47 PM on 06/26/2010
The best thing for AZ would be to erect barriers on their other 3 borders- that's where most of the ra¢ists are coming from. Only since dope was made illegal has the location of border been known, or crossing it been an issue.
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Merrimack
06:28 PM on 06/26/2010
Get ready to boycott about 20 states as we are all going to pass laws like this. There probably is a bit of cultural -ism involved. By the way; cultural-ism is the belief that certain cultures are superior to others. I believe ours is superior to most others. I am not going to point fingers but a certain culture to our south seems to find our way of life and culture better than theirs. We aren't having an influx of people from the North except in winter and they bring alot of money with them and they go home; plus their culture is superior to our friends to the south.

The problem is that those unnamed people from the south don't even want to assimilate into the superior culture. The want to bring their crappy culture with them. So screw em.
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07:12 PM on 06/26/2010
SB 1070 will be ruled unconstitutional.
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Phil11514
02:29 AM on 06/28/2010
Congratulations, you have demonstarted that you are a typically Ameriucan "exceptionalist" pig. Your "culture" IS NOT "superior to others", which is why nobody else in the rest of the world wants to have America's health care system or idiotically lax gun laws. Your so-called "culture" is inferior.

Incidentally, very few people from the North of your country want to immigrate to the United States, and since the years of the Bush / Dick Administration, a sizable number of Americans have been leaving the USA and moving out of the country to take up permanent residence in Canada. That alone should give you a 'clue' as to whose country's culture is seen and widely viewed as being superior.
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VadoRetro
02:49 PM on 06/26/2010
Ver are Zeee Papezzz. Vee must tseee zeee papezz!
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jukesgrrl
Hands off SS, Medicare & Medicaid
02:41 PM on 06/26/2010
I'm now middle-aged, I've always lived in urban areas, I went to college at a hot-bed of liberalism -- and never in my life have I ever met a Socialist.
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EbonBear
opinionated hairy man
04:01 PM on 06/26/2010
Nor has anyone screaming about them. There are very few socialists in the USA and only one in government (Bernie Sanders and he's a lot closer to a European style Social Democrat).
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ObamAtomic
02:05 PM on 06/26/2010
"The states have no power to effectuate a scheme parallel to that specified in'' the Federal law ''even if that parallel scheme does not conflict with'' the law, Judge Pfaelzer wrote in her ruling. "
03:16 PM on 06/27/2010
The broken record again. In other posts you defend city sanctuary laws.
Be consistent.
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ObamAtomic
03:23 PM on 06/27/2010
Seriously,I think you lack arguments,I never defended sanctuary laws out of passion
the cities are using the 14 amendment as a base of their sanctuary .
Arizona ain't have a thing in their favor.
When you are in hole stop digging , it isn't my fault you are lacking.
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terramartom
Grapes of Wrath!
02:02 PM on 06/26/2010
The one thing that we already knew is that Politicians are spineless and gutless.
They stand for one thing alone, and that is their own re-election!
01:23 PM on 06/26/2010
"Meg Whitman, the state's GOP candidate for governor, shifted to the right on immigration during the primary but is now courting Hispanics with a TV ad that notes her opposition to the Arizona law."
So basically, she's saying to the California Hispanic community, 'I campaigned for the Arizona law to win the white voters in the GOP, but now that I need your votes too, I'll campaign against it.' Republicans are shameless. However, I don't think many Hispanic voters will be fooled.
12:01 AM on 06/27/2010
Meg Whitman is a joke! she hasn't voted in 28 years and is now running as the Repub. candidate for Governor in CA....and wants people to vote for her. What a complete phoney and hypocrite!
12:34 PM on 06/26/2010
There are no bigger racists than open border advocates. They want an immigration policy based on skin color.
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ObamAtomic
01:59 PM on 06/26/2010
More racist than those two,no one.

http://www.terrygreenesterling.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/pearce-rally-IMG_0147.JPG
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mari2JJ
VERY moderate Republican!
02:21 PM on 06/26/2010
That lets employers who hire undocumented people off the hook. Frankly I want a law that equally punishes employers that break the law when they hire undocumented immigrants. Actually I have a friend here in Arizona who brags about hiring illegal immigrants for half of what they have to pay legal residents. So any sensible person could see that if we fine heck out of employers who hire undocumented people, this mess would take care of itself. To espouse otherwise is a clear sign of just plain old racism!
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desidid
11:22 AM on 06/26/2010
W. E. B. Du Bois on immigration 1924: Born into such a spiritual world, the average white worker is absolutely at the mercy of its beliefs and prejudices. Color hate easily assumes the form of a religion and the laborer becomes the blind executive of the decrees of the masters of the white world; he votes armies and navies for "punitive" expeditions; he sends his sons as soldiers and sailors; he composes the Negro-hating mob, demands Japanese exclusion and lynches untried prisoners. What hope is there that such a mass of dimly thinking and misled men will ever demand universal democracy for all men? http://www.yale.edu/glc/archive/1114.htm
11:40 AM on 06/26/2010
WEB Du Bois was a communist.But I guess that is a plus on the Huff Po site. “The Russian Revolution of 1917 illuminated and made clear the change in his basic thought. The revolution concerned itself with the problem of poverty. "Russia was trying to put into the hands of those people who do the world's work the power to guide and rule the state for the best welfare of the masses." DuBois' trip to Russia in 1927, his learning about Marx and Engles, his seeing the beginning of a new nation form with regard to class, prompted him to say–"My day in Russia was the day of communist beginnings."

"He could no longer support integration as present tactics and relegated it to a long range goal. Unable to trust white politicians, white capitalists of white workers he invested everything in the segregated socialized economy." (Shades of Washingtonianism?) His ideology carried over to his editorials in the Crisis magazine.”
http://www.duboislc.org/man.html
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desidid
11:59 AM on 06/26/2010
I don't disagree with him, what is there to trust in white politicians, white capitalist, and white workers who continually rally behind the who will pick the lettuce mantra? That is what you hang your hat on? That is supposed to be a the politics of amelioration? I wonder if you people even realize how crazy you sound.
01:36 PM on 06/26/2010
Your attempt to smear a major intellect and a tireless worker for human rights shows little historical comprehension or understanding of the journeys such thinkers went through in the early 20th century. He struggled to find ways to achieve better lives for the poor and oppressed, in a nation where the white majority thought his people inferior human beings. He made a lot of mistakes along the way. Yet he helped move the discourse on race further down the road to civil rights and greater human liberty for all.
And what has the right accomplished? but greater misery for all - fear, hatred, violence, private sector robbery, the corruption of the Constitution.
I would rather have DuBois at my table, despite my disagreements with him, than all the tea party denizens, who can't seem muster a single decent thought among the lot of them.
Civilization depends on respect for men and women who have free minds capable of new thoughts even if that risks mistakes, as long as the goal is the benefit of all who share responsibility in society.
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sistahfriend
01:19 PM on 06/26/2010
DEEP!
11:20 AM on 06/26/2010
Imigration Bill has to be debated and completed by politicians and the federal level.

Aeizona is full of IT. If they were so passionaite about this they could of held massive protest and joined in with other states in filing law suits against the government for not doing their job.

Instead they invloved Perason who brought the bill forward and is connected with a white supremist group and make this what it really is for mANY a issue of race.

Had these FOOLS brought a law suit against the Government they would have had many all politicial parties join in for a long over due response from out politicians and a SOLUTION.
12:43 PM on 06/26/2010
Suing the fed G; yeah, that is a worthwhile enterprise. Ha.
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ObamAtomic
02:04 PM on 06/26/2010
Suing the federal government and failing isn't a worthwhile enterprise, tried again.

Under Supreme Court precedents, the Arizona law is clearly pre-emtped by Federal Law. Since the late 1800s the Federal Government has been in charge of immigration and enforcing immigration laws.

California tried to enact its own immigration laws some years ago, with proposition 187. It was struck down as unconstitutional and the judge made clear that California had no right to enact parallel enforcement of clearly Federal responsibilities.
11:20 AM on 06/26/2010
All states have a right(and obligation) to secure their boarders. Just come here through the proper channels(than means don’t be “illegal”), like you have to in any other country.If just anyone can walk into our country we open ourselves up to increased terrorism,crime,smuggling,healthcare acuse,welfare abuse,prison overcrowding,ect.We can not afford that.What part of that is too hard for you to understand?
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mari2JJ
VERY moderate Republican!
02:35 PM on 06/26/2010
Actually there are two illegal acts in hiring people who are not here legally. One is by the person hired when they came illegally and one is by the employer who does not pick up the phone and authenticate that it is legal to hire the person. Focusing on just work applicants means that a State is discriminatory and needs to be stopped. There is a legal way NOW to determine if a hire is legal. Employers do not use it because they can hire someone for half price or even less when that employer fails to follow the law. I say, throw the book at these employers and illegal employment will be a thing of the past! The Arizona law only targets the worker, not the employer who aided and abetted illegal employment!
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07:20 PM on 06/26/2010
You are correct about SB1070 which provides no financial penalties for employers of illegals, merely a very short suspension of their licenses.
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AZreb
equal-opportunity Independent heathen
09:21 AM on 06/27/2010
There has been a law on the books in AZ for a couple of years that prescribes punishment for businesses hiring illegals. One little problem - the attorney for the state of AZ is Terry Goddard, who is in favor of amnesty for illegals and doesn't want to prosecute cases involving businesses who hire them. If you have an attorney who doesn't want to follow the law, then you have a major, major problem.
11:12 AM on 06/26/2010
If it were up to GOP economics, we would be exclusively hiring people who can work for less than the minimum wage, don't need any benefits and we don't have to pay social security/payroll taxes. The business will then have more money to invest and this "suppy-side" economy will create more jobs.

Didn't it happen that way now? The service and construction industries hired illegal immigrants, the high tech industry outsourced engineering to India, the manufacturing industry outsourced to China. Companies made huge profits by reducing payroll and taxes.

Wasn't this *supposed* to create a massive amount of jobs? Wasn't this what the McCain-Palin 08 campaigns finance advisors Meg, Carly and Joe the Plumber prophesizing about? Supply-side economics trickling down to create jobs and more jobs and even more jobs?
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rgateman
12:53 PM on 06/26/2010
Unfortunatley the illegals the repugs had doing cheap work dug a ditch on the economic road and they willingly drove straight into that ditch. Carly Fiorina and Phil Gramm sure knew what they were talking about huh?
03:34 PM on 06/26/2010
Carly definitely knows what she's doing. HP/Compaq layoffs totaled more than 75000 in the years she was the CEO. Most of these jobs sprang up immediately in the 'subcontinent'.