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08:22 PM on 03/17/2008
I'd really like to know when Hillary will stop if there is no vote in FL she doesn't have a chance to make up the popular vote now without FL which was really her only argument...

OBAMA HAS A 750,000 vote lead in the popular vote there is no way she can do that without FL, and there is no way they will get seated at the convetion, and there is no way that the super delegates will allow this to go that long... she really should just drop out now, there is no concieveable way for her to catch up in either delegates or popular vote.

since 2/10 she netted 20 super's
Obama in that same time 111 super's

after all is said and done she will need to get nearly 80% of remaining Super delegates
Obama will need less than 40% of the remaining ones

This baby was over since WI, her hope of FL and MI counting as standed was ludicrous to begin with but now that FL is gone forget it, its done. If she trys to take this to the convention the party should kick her out. not that it matters through my conservative estimates for Obama he's only gonna need to gain a lil over 100 super delegates, thats with a huge loss in PA and IN in my numbers... PA will be closer than 20 points and In I think he can win (i had it as a 5 pt win for Clinton)

This baby is done like it or not Hillary supporters you need to come to reality and explain exactly how she is to win this thing. cause i can't find a way.
08:20 PM on 03/17/2008
Florida is not going to vote again because they can't figure out how....

However.... we are in Michigan... or at least it is looking really good now.... : ) We know how to vote here....
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08:15 PM on 03/17/2008
I am an Obama supporter and this does help him, but I think it sucks for Florida voters. My vote should not count more than theirs. They did not have a say in moving the dates. I am sorry.
08:05 PM on 03/17/2008
Obama Camp should agree to have the delegates seated according to the January vote. He gets the Nom anyway, and he gets to claim moral high ground on avoiding disenfranchised voters. He also earns the good will of florida voters for the general.
11:37 PM on 03/17/2008
Actually, I think that's what's going to happen. But it would be premature for him to do that now lest he be seen as "arrogant". A smart move for Obama would be to run down the clock and rack up as many wins as possible. Then when he's comfortably safe, he can just leave it to the DNC, let them make the "diplomatic" decision to seat the Florida delegates as is, but it doesn't change the outcome.
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MsLiz
burned out attorney, flaming liberal
12:08 AM on 03/18/2008
Obama will probably agree to this if his nomination is secure. It is too early to commit now.
08:01 PM on 03/17/2008
So, the Floridan democrates, who endorsed Hillary, are helping to steal the election?
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10:53 PM on 03/17/2008
Whats the problem, everyone in florida that voted did so, up front, knowing their votes did not count. Now its a big issue after Texas and Ohio. Nothing has changed, they do not count, same as before. Don't act all disenfrachised now - it's your states fault - vote the bums out.
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MsLiz
burned out attorney, flaming liberal
12:09 AM on 03/18/2008
Of course.
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ibsteve2u
Someone who cares - to his unending regret
07:56 PM on 03/17/2008
"Republican Speaker of the Florida House Marco Rubio refuses to even consider that option."

lolllll....now that is different. It is an accepted fact that, right or wrong, today's Republicans don't hesitate to attack Democrats, but they're usually far more discrete when they attack Democracy.
07:54 PM on 03/17/2008
Elton John A solo concert One Night Only in support of Hillary Clinton for President with Senator Hillary Clinton and President Bill Clinton Wed. April 09 ,2008 at Radio City Music Hall
Tickets range from $125 and $250 Also tickets for $500, $1000 and $2300
Tickets go on sale march 19 @ 9 a.m EDT
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apogee2perogee
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself.
08:08 PM on 03/17/2008
There is an opportunity for some oblique insight. No way do I trust Elton's political judgement, not surprised he supports Hill. Madman Across the Water? In my all time top five.
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08:17 PM on 03/17/2008
He is an English citizen and can not do the concert for free. He must charge his usual rate
07:53 PM on 03/17/2008
For those of you that keep saying rules are rules, then why shouldn't Obama be disqualified for running ads in Florida in violation of the agreement that there would be no campaigning there? I don't care if the ads were part of a national buy, as fare as I am concerned television ads are campaigning and he violated the rules.
07:56 PM on 03/17/2008
NO.
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apogee2perogee
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself.
07:58 PM on 03/17/2008
Some times, you just gotta tell 'em straight up: NO

heh
08:04 PM on 03/17/2008
Obama's "FL ADs" were on tv on cable he wasn't targeting FL how is he supposed to control what get aired where, and it not like a channel can change it so that station doesn't play it in just FL
07:51 PM on 03/17/2008
Than it's 50/50. The results of the January 29th primary can not be used to distribute the delegates to the two remaining candidates. Rules are rules, and 50 /50 is the only principled way to accomodate Florida and still honor the rules.
07:51 PM on 03/17/2008
Well that sucks.

I'll put it out there, I support Obama, but I really wish that this could have been resolved through another vote. The delegates from Florida and Michigan should really be counted one way or another, not because I think that Dems in these states will cry about it and let McCain win the state, because while everyone assumes that will happen Dems are much more stalwart then they are given credit for, but because its the right thing to do.

This leads to the inevitable problem of what now?

I don't like the 50/50 proposition because that's as stupid as not seating them at all, it still says, hey, your vote, yeah, didn't count for anything.

I don't like seating them as is because then it seems when push comes to shove the DNC will cave on its rules, thus leading to more states moving forward in future primaries.

I know the whole, they made their own bed line, but really, shouldn't we all be trying to make sure that the voters in these two states get their say, regardless of political machinations. Am I the only one that thinks instead of arguing over this we should collectively be trying to figure something out. And maybe there is no good and fair solution, but shouldn't we at least be trying. I mean if anything was going to disenfranchise voters more than their votes not getting counted it would be the way they are being made into a political punching bag by the two sides.
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speakingtruth2power
Not motivated by fear & loathing
07:49 PM on 03/17/2008
The Clintons have many arguments on why it should be Hillary

but their best spun one was that Obama is no different than her.

Her big spin is that Obama wouldn't stop the oil wars, EITHER!
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apogee2perogee
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself.
08:17 PM on 03/17/2008
The Clintons spin so hard because they are hoping to create their own gravity to 'draw' voters !
07:47 PM on 03/17/2008
Only one thing to do now. Hillary MUST CONCEDE NOW !!!!!!

There is no way Hillary Clinton can win now, without some secret back room deals with super delegates. And that will cause another 1968 riot in Chicago, or another Bush stealing against Gore.

Barack Obama has almost 160 higher pledged delegate count, has a higher popular vote, has won twice as many states. There is just now way Hillary can overcome all three of those, she would have to win the next 10 states at like 70%, which is almost impossible for either of them to do.

At the end of the day if Hillary will still end up losing in June or August, she will lose, so why not be the better person, and just concede now and start the fight aganist the Republicans, and stop burning money away attacking each other. We need to bind together and be one team. I am sorry Hillary, this is not your year, it is Obama time.
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MsLiz
burned out attorney, flaming liberal
12:16 AM on 03/18/2008
I must point out that the 1968 riots were investigated and it was determined that it was a "police riot." It was not the students, SDS, Yippies, etc., it was Mayor Daley's cops who perpetrated the violence.
07:43 PM on 03/17/2008
Don't worry FL. Your vote wouldn't count if you voted 100 times.

HRC is trying to over ride the vote anyways by wooing the supers. So, vote or don't, count or not, HRC's plan is to over turn the vote anyway. You don't count just like we don't count/
07:39 PM on 03/17/2008
This is exactly what Hillary wanted. This way, she and her financiers can continue to pressure and lobby the DNC to seat the Jan. 28 delegates as is, despite the fact that only a fraction of the possible voters actually went to the polls. Time is not on Hillary's side, but look for her to cite the April meeting date as the latest deadline for things to turn around, moving the goal posts yet again.

Pathetic, really. It would be sad if it weren't so destructive.
07:48 PM on 03/17/2008
Maybe I missed something, but I thought there was a record turnout in the Florida primary.
07:52 PM on 03/17/2008
Apparently they did. Too bad it was not a legitimate primary.
07:52 PM on 03/17/2008
due to the property tax initiative that affected every homeowner and commercial real estate owner in the state.
07:37 PM on 03/17/2008
She has no reason to leave except she's trailing Obama and because she's damaging the party with her disgusting tactics.
08:33 PM on 03/17/2008
oh yeah ..... you are so wrong Obama is as militant as his 20 affiliation with Rev Wright ....you know Obama sing G--damn America... uh huh very very American