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clearasmud
Needed... One Real Democrat President
03:46 PM on 08/17/2011
There are a lot of very evil people out there who own, and are working for, the online for-profit schools.

John Boehner is the one who was bought off in order to get his backing for a law that totally opened up the market to these criminals and allowed them to do what they are now doing.

Send John Boehner a thank you letter for costing us billions of dollars, enslaving the gullible, and further rewarding his Corporate friends.
03:56 PM on 08/17/2011
I'm no fan, but the Community Colleges aren't much better.
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lhanderson86
04:00 PM on 08/17/2011
at least you can transfer to another accredited school from a community college.
04:42 PM on 08/17/2011
TThey are better and cheaper.
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gr8bsn
An equal opportunity offender since 1978
04:39 PM on 08/17/2011
I'm sorry, but the so called "non-profit" sector of "public" universities are just as greedy.
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clearasmud
Needed... One Real Democrat President
03:40 PM on 08/17/2011
There are way too many people going to college that should not be.

There are way too few people going to Trade Schools, that should be.
03:54 PM on 08/17/2011
There are six figure jobs going begging because all little Jills and Jacks have been encouraged to "go to college", which a lot of them do, running up huge student debt, and all too often dropping out or graduating with a degree in a useless major.
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BluestateGuyInTX
A Connecticut yankee in Emperor Bush's Town.
05:33 PM on 08/17/2011
Nice talking point. Back it up with some real examples.
04:15 PM on 08/17/2011
There are too many going to college to just party and waste time and find the easiest route possible to just graduate.  That may have worked once upon a time when graduates were fewer, but today it matters what is between the ears. 

I think if I hear one more time today that companies CANNOT find people to fill skilled jobs I will puke.  Even our Asian partners are saying the same thing.  We are not graduating nearly enough in the math and sciences to fill high paying quality tech jobs. 

Is this the message from the WH?  Nope, they never discuss how our public school system is deteriorating so quickly.  It isn't just room size expanding, but little incentive for kids to excel. Where is Arnie Duncan that was suppose to revolutionize the public school system?  I know....that would mean taking on the teacher's unions and that is off-limits.
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pooka47401
Reality is the leading cause of stress!
03:22 PM on 08/17/2011
Indiana has joined several other States in suing For Profit online 'Universities". These "institutions" are targeting individuals who are incapable of receiving a degree. Federal money, like Pell Grants, are being sucked up and then the students are taking out loans. These fake Universities are promising the unwary believers that they will provide them with a degree that will get them hired at sky high salaries. I see it on a weekly basis in my work with the low income. One woman was promised that she would be hired as a teacher at a local University. She is disabled, has poor hygiene and could not teach a college level course, or any course. But they raised her hopes. Another guy came in and had borrowed money on the promise that he could do a 2 year degree in Addictions and then get a $60,000 job at our local mental health center. The "university" also told him that they would get him an internship. I warned him that even with a Masters degree, in our town, you don't get $60,000. He found that I was correct, and now owes thousands that he borrowed. Another woman who took basic courses for 2 years, found that none of her "credits" would transfer and were worthless. She owed on loans also. I am guessing that there is a strong correlation between the rise of these for profit vampires and the default on loans in the past 10 years.
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smarti
We're all mad here..
09:35 PM on 08/17/2011
Over 50% of student loan defaults are through the for-profit schools. I have mixed feelings on this. Personally, I started my college in traditional schools but finished my bachelor's in a for-profit (computer information systems degree, B.S.I.T. degree.. yes it looks like bull-sh*t haha). The reason I finished at a for profit was due to the online availability of courses that at the time, were only available at for profit schools. I had a decent education, I found that any worth I would get out of the degree would be due to me completing the reading and assignments. I lucked out and landed a job in my field and am now an above-average paid IT profession in computer programming. But, I stress some luck here. I had a personal referral to the company that I think landed my chances much more than my degree. I also have a rather large student loan debt, but certainly not in the hundreds of thousands. On the other hand, my husband is now going back to school and has enrolled in a community college course track that will transfer to a state university program. They now offer online courses, for 1/10th the cost of what I paid, and from what I've seen of his coursework, is 1000x more rigorous and worthwhile. I'm thankful I at least completed my core courses through traditional schools otherwise I would have felt really cheated.
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smarti
We're all mad here..
09:36 PM on 08/17/2011
The for-profits are sucking up federal loans where they get paid at the outset with little recourse to them if the student cannot repay the loan or get a job in the promised field. I think this is more prevalent for low income students who enroll in the "career" training for-profit schools than it was for people like myself who already had a "regular" college background and some professional experience to back it up with.

For profit schools should not be able to receive federal tax dollars in loans, which would force them to a) lower their tuition to levels affordable by the student community they purport to serve and b) make them competitive with state funded schools with cost by having to offer competitive worthy programs
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JoeBlough
The Horror. . .The Horror. . .
03:20 PM on 08/17/2011
Maybe the government should regulate college tuition and fees?
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Patrick Owen
03:30 PM on 08/17/2011
that would be nice but the government would never do it to many on the right would see it as socialized education which confuses me because no one can afford school out right with out loans which a lot of the right want to get rid of.
04:08 PM on 08/17/2011
Why not? Or do away with them all together. I, for one, would be more than willing to pay higher taxes for my childrens college education. It would probably work out to be less than I will pay to send them each to school now.
03:17 PM on 08/17/2011
Another corporate ponzi industry for the bankers. There is a reason these loans are almost impossible to discharge in bankruptcy.
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leaning left
03:32 PM on 08/17/2011
No "almost" they are impossible.
03:47 PM on 08/17/2011
No, there are a small handful of ways.
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gr8bsn
An equal opportunity offender since 1978
04:48 PM on 08/17/2011
It can be done, but it is not easy. I was talking to a buddy of mine who is a lawyer. He deals with bankruptcy law. He gets the question a lot. He said that while it is possible, student loan debt is only charged off in the courts about 2% of the time in bankruptcy. While I am all for honoring debts to the best of your ability, think about this: You can be a compulsive shopper, run up six digits of credit card debt, and have that debt charged off in bankruptcy. You can be a gambling addict, run up six digits of gambling debt, and yet that debt can also be fully charged off in bankruptcy. You can be a college student who wanted a better life & a chance to contribute to the community/economy. You can get into the same amount of debt (depending on your school) and yet not find the type of work "promised" by a college degree. Unlike the shopping & gambling addicts, you have virtually no rights in court.
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smarti
We're all mad here..
09:16 PM on 08/17/2011
While that law is certainly suspect, the real issue is the simple costs of college tuition that *require* loans to begin with. The majority of college students in middle and lower income brackets need to take out loans, even to attend state and community colleges. State budget squeezing has dried up funding to these institutions and has forced tuition costs to rise that force more loan taking.

The argument can be made that the availability of loans allowed schools to raise tuition to costs that exceed income and out of pocket paying ability, but the real reason is the demand for college education has increased due to employer requirements for college degrees for a job that may or may not even require a degree to begin with. Degrees have been used by lazy HR departments as a "weeding out" tool to screen applicants and is responsible for an inflated demand for college. Maybe I'm old school, but I think college should be limited for liberal arts and professional studies, not used as a springboard to get into a job that is more technical or career-based. For profits have eaten up these costs as well, by charging steep tuition for career focused fields with the promise of easy money via federally subsidized loans that lure students to these overpriced schools with a questionable value.
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Reno Fickler
Head Lifeguard/Dead Sea Marina
03:14 PM on 08/17/2011
Thankfully the congress-people passed a law so this does NOT affect their childrens' loans. Their kids are different from yours in the same fashion their elected parents are different from you.
They're 'Special'!
03:46 PM on 08/17/2011
As much as I'm with you on not liking congressional perks (like free awesome health care, while the rest of us go broke or do without) -- snopes says this one is false.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/studentloans.asp
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03:10 PM on 08/17/2011
Yep......anybody can borrow money to go to college.

Can you think of anything else that ANYBODY can get a loan for?????

No you can't ....because there is no other such animal.

Remind you of another government "anyone can play" loan program?


These things get politicians elected.

And bankrupt economies.
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smarti
We're all mad here..
08:55 PM on 08/17/2011
A double edged sword no doubt. The case can be made that federal loan subsidizing has increased the cost of tuition, but not totally. The real issue is that in order to get a decent paying job, one must go to college, which has increased the demand. In accordance with market theory, increased demand for a limited supply will raise costs. College tuition rates have soared above inflation and if the family savings aren't there, then the student must take out loans.

Another factor is the declining state support as budgets are squeezed for lower cost community and state colleges, who are then forced to raise tuition rates that lock out lower and middle income folks who may have been able to pay the tuition without loans, now they are forced to get loans as well.
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09:31 PM on 08/17/2011
Well said.
02:30 AM on 08/18/2011
This is because the number of decent paying jobs has plummeted. If it was still possible to support a family working in a factory, less people would be going to college.
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smarti
We're all mad here..
08:55 PM on 08/17/2011
The for-profit higher education industry has also contributed greatly to this ordeal: over half of the for-profit student population is subsidized on either federal loans or on the military grant, and is responsible for over half of the student loan defaults. For profit education institutions should not receive tax payer subsidized money. I say this as a for-profit school graduate myself. The only reason I opted for for profit schooling to finish my degree was the availability of online courses that fit with my working and family schedule. Now, community colleges and state schools offer superior education in the same format (my husband is online student with a community college.. the coursework is 1000x more rigorous and costs 1/10th of what I paid for for-profit), had this option been available to me at the time I could have went through community/state school for much less the cost. Luckily, my degree has panned out as I have a well paying job in my field, but I certainly regret the cost of my schooling seeing as how I could have had much better for less. For profit colleges are simply charging too much and collecting tax payer subsidized funds to enroll students who could never pay the tuition up front, and instead pushing loans on students when the quality of the education and degree prestige may not make up for the amount of the loan in the end.
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09:47 PM on 08/17/2011
When I was in college and they tried to help you acquire financial assistance.......that did not make the University "responsible", according to you, for the student's failure to repay the loan. As for the private education companies that make a profit.....sure!!!!.....huge source of abuse of the federal programs.

There is an entire industry that profits form Social Security Disability claims and payments. There are huge industries that make a profit off of federal healthcare payments. Ever see those commericals about helping people who are behind on their taxes???? HUGE money making scam that "helps" no one except for the IRS. Those companies don't save anyone money....they help collect money for the IRS with a guaranteed "agent" fee FROM the IRS that come from the money you pay. They have no desire to lower what you owe...becaue that lowers their fee.

The lesson is.....YOU...the INDIVIDUAL has to stand on your own two feet and make good decisions for YOU.

But I digress.....
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03:09 PM on 08/17/2011
Let's talk about even BIGGER problems. Like the bankster-lobbyist-corrupted geedubbya 2005 bankruptcy "reform" where its almost impossible for even those with the worst extenuating circumstances to discharge a student loan through BK; yet the rich can keep or write down their 2nd and 3rd homes. Or even worse, the fact that these loans were "securitized" (sliced, diced) to provide gambling chips for the Wall Street casinos and "ownership" is indeterminate - same goes for auto loans and mortgages.
04:20 PM on 08/17/2011
The 2005 revisions did not introduce the idea that student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy (which dates back to 1978) nor did it change the standard for discharge of student loans (i.e., undue hardship, which also dates to 1978). The 2005 revisions did, however, expand the educational loans to which the bar to dischargeability in bankruptcy applies by essentially removing the requirement that a nonprofit institution be involved in making the loan.
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06:45 PM on 08/17/2011
Thank you for the info, happypatb. Very knowledgable & gave me good education : )
03:06 PM on 08/17/2011
A study has shown that 30% of recent college graduates are functionally illiterate.

I wonder what kind of debt that group has?
03:52 PM on 08/17/2011
Please cite this study
04:30 PM on 08/17/2011
I can't remember where I read it, but I think it was in the New York Times, within the past year.
03:56 PM on 08/17/2011
lol. I'd love to read that study. I almost believe it.
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Maranda MassieGuthrie
my bio is empty!
02:57 PM on 08/17/2011
sounds like how white house and congress work, but with lobbyists instead!