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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NewYorkLiberal
09:17 AM on 08/23/2011
Excellent article.

Just because I disagree with conservatives on many domestic issues, I do not need to toe a party line and disagree with everything that every conservative thinks or says. Occasionally, one or two of them will get something right.

And occasionally, liberal conventional wisdom is wrong.

But only occasionally.
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Boduognat
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate.
02:21 PM on 08/23/2011
Well, I can only agree with you when you claim that Mr. Dershowitz did not call Mr. Tutu "evil".

In fact, Mr. Dershowitz called Mr. Tutu the following things:

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Tutu-a-racist-and-bigot-20090420-2
US attorney Alan Dershowitz said on Monday on the sidelines of the Durban Review Conference on racism in Geneva that Switzerland's president was supportive of "hate mongering" and that the anti-apartheid activist Desmond Tutu was a "racist and bigot".
He is "blind, deaf and dumb when it comes to issues of Israel"

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1742/bishop-tutu-is-no-saint-when-it-comes-to-jews
His recognizable face—with its ever present grin—masks a long history of ugly hatred toward the Jewish people. He has minimized the suffering of those killed in the Holocaust.

If you read the article by Mr. Dershowitz, well, he's called a hatemongering racist holocaust denier and a bigot, but Mr. Dershowitz did NOT call Mr. Tutu "evil".
09:13 AM on 08/23/2011
No rational person should welcome Beck's assistance, no matter how much it appears to be to your benefit - the man is neither rational nor stable.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MarcEdward
likes all cats more than most people
10:59 AM on 08/23/2011
I think Glenn Beck is the perfect person to represent the Israeli-right and those so called Americans who put Israel's interest over America's national interest- he's smarter and more honest than any of them.
09:12 AM on 08/23/2011
"All decent people, whether on the left or the right, should support Israel's right to exist as the democratic nation state of the Jewish people."

One thing we expect from "democratic" nations is full equality to all their citizens regardless of characteristics of birth. It is not even theoretically possible for the "Jewish State" to treat its Jewish and non-Jewish citizens equally. Neither Dershowitz nor I nor any American Jew would tolerate living in a "Christian State" even if we still retained the right to vote and hold office.

Another feature of a democracy is that all people subject to government decision-making may vote for or against the government. While Israel's 1.5 million Palestinian citizens may vote, albeit with second-class citizenship in almost every respect, the 4 million Palestinians in the territories have no vote at all. Yet Israel reserves the right to control every aspect of their lives, including how much food they have access to, how long they spend in Israeli prisons, and even whether they are summarily executed by Israeli forces.

Dershowitz takes it for granted that Israel is a Jewish and democratic state, even though that is an obviously irreconcilable contradiction. Why is it "indecent" to support a truly democratic state that provides equal rights for all?

Dershowitz values the Christian philosophy of Beck over that of Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu, whom Dershowitz called one of the most evil people in the world. That about sums it up.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NewYorkLiberal
09:52 AM on 08/23/2011
I believe that Dershowitz used the word "misguided" and "ignorant". Not evil.

I did a search, and the only reference I could find that Dershowitz may have used the word "evil" in regards to Tutu was in a blog by Antony Lowenstein, who claims to have been told this in a private conversation. Lowenstein seems to be a conspiracy theorist, ranting about Israel, the US and other Western imperialists, such as Australia.

Do you have a source for your accusation?
12:05 PM on 08/23/2011
NYLib - you claim you did a search and still "believe that Dershowitz used the word "misguided­" and "ignorant"­. Not evil." You didn't do a very good search. If you did, you would have found this immediately:

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1742/bishop-tutu-is-no-saint-when-it-comes-to-jews
a long history of ugly hatred toward the Jewish people, the Jewish religion and the Jewish state

It's a Dersh smear job of Tutu that says, among other things:

"He has invoked classic anti-Semitic stereotypes and tropes about Jewish "arrogance", "power" and money. He has characterized Jews a "peculiar people," and has accused "the Jews" of causing many of the world's problems."

"Tutu's sordid history of anti-Jewish rhetoric and actions"

In this article, Dersh explicitly accuses Tutu of being virulently anti-Semitic.

As for the word "evil," apparently you and I have differing views of Lowenstein's credibility. I don't think he made the word up, but even if you do, read the article I linked to, and tell me whose characterization of Dersh's attitude toward Tutu is closer to the truth - yours or mine? Does Dersh believe Tutu is "evil" or simply "misguided and ignorant?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rianna
08:42 AM on 08/23/2011
"All decent people, whether on the left or the right, should support Israel's right to exist as the democratic nation state of the Jewish people".

All decent people should condemn an apartheid state holding a people under oppression for the last 44 years, stealing their lands, controlling their water, limiting their fishing, stealing and destroying their olive groves, dumping sewage into their agricultural lands, using deadly weapons in civilian areas, and depriving them of freedom.

It's always about Israel, isn't it Mr. D? Never mind the lives and suffering about innocent Palestinian civilians, who have all been cast aside as "terrorists" for Israel's convenience.

You can keep Glen Beck. He should do well living in those stolen settlements.
08:47 AM on 08/23/2011
20 million xs fanned Rianna . . . .
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SamSeven
You're either with Humanity or you're not.
07:53 AM on 08/23/2011
All decent people, whether on the left or the right, should support Israel's right to exist as the democratic nation state of the Jewish people.

>>>Israel is an aparthied country. I didnt support South African aparthied and certainly not going to support Israeli racist policies.

All decent people should support Israel's right to defend its civilians from terrorist attacks.

>>Israel is colonizing Palestinian land which isnt yours. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves although they arent even allowed that.
08:02 AM on 08/23/2011
10 million xs fanned Sam . . . ditto
08:57 AM on 08/23/2011
Do you support Palestine as a nation state of the Palestinian people?
10:07 AM on 08/23/2011
STCuthber - I believe the Palestinians should have all their land returned to them and be compensated for their suffering.
07:51 AM on 08/23/2011
Alan . . why don't you stop your spin cycle for a minute or two or more . . . no one is questioning Israel's right to exist . .there are Israeli's and Palestinians buiilding bridges of mutual support . . the current situation cannot last . . . it is not conductive to israel's long term security nor to peace and security in the ME and in the whole world . . . we have had enough of war for the sake of what . . the mic and hte neo con agenda . . . you have to revise your mantra because it is totally wrong . . . .

The Palestinians deserve justice . . they deserve their own state for far too long the US has been a dishonest broker . this has to end . . . or we are all doomed to WWIII . . and why so that a rogue state can continue to steal their neighbours land, water and the future of its children out of greed,arrogance and cowardice . . israel has to accept responsibilty for its actions and the time is now!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Want2knowY
10:56 AM on 08/23/2011
In your first paragraph, you say noone is questioning Israel's right to exist. In the second paragraphy, you call it a "rouge nation". Do YOU think that, as part of any agreement, the Palestinians should recognize Israel as a Jewish state?
11:33 AM on 08/23/2011
Palestinians have repeatedly acknowledged their recognition of Israel since the early 1990s.
07:43 AM on 08/23/2011
Now why would Beck choose to be such an ardent supporter? Examine that question and you might find your answer therein.
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06:53 AM on 08/23/2011
Desmond Tutu is a bad Christian and Glen Beck is a good one thus we enter the interesting and skewed world of Dershowitz where all that matters in order to measure a persons worth is their acceptance of Israel's foreign policy and occupied territories.
05:21 AM on 08/23/2011
Alan: Generally, I am a big supporter of your positions, but this one is truly scary. You neatly lay out the conditions of the world both inside and outside Israel. You then go on to talk about how many "friends and allies" have abandoned Israel and even work toward incentivising Terrorism and Israel's enemies. I am in agreement 100%. Despite my being more left of center than right, I agree this is a major problem.
It's the implied "therefore" in your article with which I have a problem. We should be glad that someone like Beck has the courage to stand up when Israel's enemies are abandoning her.. This is ludicrous. This is not courage at all. It is theater. TV/Radio Shtick and the fact that people and Jews, in particular, see him now as a flag bearer/poster boy is rather troubling. If we have issues regarding brethren abandoning the country, we need to address this and address it quickly but Beck-- I would leave him home. There are 13 million Jews and 1.2 billion Christians in the world.. If Beck is the best we can do, I question our own feelings of self worth.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Wisdo
semantics shamantics
07:54 AM on 08/23/2011
I think you;re absolutely right about embracing a oafish entertainer and populist rabble rouser like Beck just because support for Israel is evaporating - however I think its quite revealing that Israel is left with so few supporters that the Glenn Becks of the world are the stand out supporters.

The problem is of course not the land of Israel itself, nor Jews, nor jewishness, nor "western civilisation" but the actual actions taken by successive Israeli governments which have marginalised Palestinians over the decades and fuelled a situation of violence and extremism instead of drawing the sting - apparently on purpose and with a view to using the ensuing mayhem to further encroach on an already tiny and fractured proto-nation for the Palestinians, as confirmed by Tzippi Livni.
09:17 AM on 08/23/2011
20 million xs fanned
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
courtb
10:08 AM on 08/23/2011
There are many Jews and Zionists that disagree with Beck's presence in Israel. Bradley Burston wrote an awesome piece about Beck and Israel a few days ago.
08:57 PM on 08/24/2011
thanks Ill check out Burston
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Wisdo
semantics shamantics
04:08 AM on 08/23/2011
Keep ignoring the military occupation Alan, its working!
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03:47 AM on 08/23/2011
Alan, you're a bright guy, generally progressive, yet sadly
inconsistent when it comes to Israeli aggression or repression.

Yes, Israel has many good people, many accomplishments [with the
help of massive US, European, and private aid over decades...],
and deserves basic respect. But like our own US it is not
perfect and has been documented in doing so many
wrongs. I'd list them but you and pals robotically
leap to excuses and distortions.

If a member of my family does wrong I will oppose it, period !
I'll respect you more when you do.
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Talab
I tot i taw a putty tat
12:46 AM on 08/23/2011
" All decent people, whether on the left or the right, should support Israel's right to exist as the democratic nation state of the Jewish people."
First sentence spells out Israel as an apartheid state .... no other way to look at it
07:52 AM on 08/23/2011
ditto
08:58 AM on 08/23/2011
Any other nation states you consider to be apartheid, or just the Jewish one?
11:00 PM on 08/22/2011
How about Andres Breivik? Are you as excited about him being a supporter of Israel as well?
10:22 PM on 08/22/2011
You lost me when you lied (and I thought alleged legal experts were supposed to relay the truth, silly me):-

"Christian religious sites are preserved in Jerusalem and other areas under Israeli control"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24766374/Palestine-The-Destruction-of-Muslim-Christian-Holy-Places-in-Israel
12:39 AM on 08/23/2011
They do not teach honesty in law school.
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03:50 AM on 08/23/2011
LAW......for the Protection of [ BIG ] Corporations......which shield their owner's and manager's from responsibility......who give money to Law schools and judges....
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rianna
09:36 AM on 08/23/2011
This too shall be ignored. Israel CANNOT do any wrong. It is the rest of the mean old world that is mean to poor Israel.

Thanks for this article. It does show that the Taliban might exist in Israel.
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10:53 AM on 08/24/2011
"This too shall be ignored."

If only you did--then readers could have been spared from your silly post.
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