Dave Winer

Dave Winer

Posted: October 10, 2008 04:18 PM

Will this election end in a civil war?

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During the Democratic primary, as the choice narrowed to Obama and Clinton, it was pretty common for people to say that no matter what we'd have a strong nominee and President. There was a lot of confidence that either candidate would win the election over the Republican alternative, and would go on to be a strong leader.

As the campaign went on, this feeling faded -- losing became unthinkable on both sides, and the campaign turned ugly -- but there was still something held in reserve, some places we did not go. I can't speak for anyone else as to why we didn't go for broke, but my own opinion is that we felt that after the primary we'd have to work together. And while there was some discussion before the DNC that the party was split, the convention unified the party.

What about after the general election, now less than a month away? The same logic applies. We'll all be Americans, and we must unite behind the President, no matter how unthinkable that might seem now. But there's a lot of concern, expressed openly, that there will be violence if Obama wins -- that somehow the Republicans will not feel that an African-American, even if he wins the Electoral College, is a legitimate President. If so, this is a prescription for nothing less than civil war.

I know what it feels like to be bewildered by the choice made by our country. I felt we were poised on a precipice of disaster in 2004 when we re-elected President Bush, but I accepted the result. I said at the time that we need to listen to the Americans who voted for him, because they must be trying to say something. Well, I spent four years listening and nothing came back. So we worked and patiently waited as our country continued to fumble and blunder and waste opportunity after opportunity. Now, facing a global economic collapse, and who knows what politically and militarily, our country will have to either unite, or fly apart.

I'm going to add my voice, as humble and unpowerful as it is, to the growing chorus asking the Republicans to take a step back, and think longer term, bigger picture. This is not going to end well if we can't agree that whoever wins this election is our leader for the next four years, at a time when we desperately need leadership. There's an awful spirit to this competition that says when it's over we will not unite, and that would be a disaster.

McCain must give a speech, like the one given by Obama when racial issues came to the front earlier this year, and say clearly that no matter who wins, we must unite behind the new President. I have no doubt that Obama would echo this. Then during the remaining weeks of the campaign we can rebuild the spirit that America is famous for, and prepare to face the huge challenges that are in front of (all of) us.

Update: He's going in the right direction, believe it or not, despite the certainty of some of the commenters here that it would be tantamount to conceding.

During the Democratic primary, as the choice narrowed to Obama and Clinton, it was pretty common for people to say that no matter what we'd have a strong nominee and President. There was a lot of conf...
During the Democratic primary, as the choice narrowed to Obama and Clinton, it was pretty common for people to say that no matter what we'd have a strong nominee and President. There was a lot of conf...
 
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I had similar thoughts as those expressed in this article, just not a civil war, but there may be untold violence if Obama wins this election.

I live in Pennsylvania. From my personal observations, race-based violence, ethnic intimidation, and vandalism seemed to increase during the Democratic primary run-up to the vote in PA. So here is where I with disagree with the writer:

"but there was still something held in reserve, some places we did not go. I can't speak for anyone else as to why we didn't go for broke."

In my opinion, Hillary went for broke. NOTHING McCain/Palin is bringing up now is new. They aren't saying anything that the Clinton campaign didn't.

The difference now is it is looking like Obama may win the general election. The difference now is everyone is taking a hit financially. And in Pennsylvania for those people who'd never vote for a Black even if their life depended on it, since Hillary already said it, now McCain and the purile Palin is saying it, it has to be true.

I agree with the writer in that McCain has to refute the lies and stop the smears. Yesterday, he refuted a lie but continued all the other lies and the smears??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 10/11/2008
- tomjones44 I'm a Fan of tomjones44 4 fans permalink

if they want to have a civil war, give them a few states (with no nuke-u-lar weapons) and let them toy with their own lives

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 10/10/2008
- tompoe I'm a Fan of tompoe 18 fans permalink

September 19, 2008, all Republicans learned they now belong to the Party of Corporate Welfare. America does not tolerate corporate welfare. Whatever the election does, it will signal the official dismantling of the Republican Party as a political influence in America. The conservatives will marginalize the right, and the rest will begin the rebuilding process, most likely with a new party and platform. The marginalized that refuse to acknowledge reality, will find themselves ridiculed far worse than any liberal ever was ridiculed. Next time you see a Republican, remind them they belong to the Party of Corporate Welfare, and America does not tolerate corporate welfare.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 10/10/2008
- seppoyank I'm a Fan of seppoyank 4 fans permalink

This post articulated something I have been discussing with friends and family over the past few days. After all of this, how are we ever going to forgive each other? The Republicans at the hate rallies...will they ever see Obama as anything other than a terrorist? The Democrats watching this stuff with outrage and horror...will we ever forgive them for taking this country backwards instead of forwards?

On November 5th, we will all still be here. No matter who wins. We have to live in this country together...not just with the people who agree with us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:05 PM on 10/10/2008

Mr. Winer,

I agree with your sentiments. Also, I believe that we, particularly hard core conservative Republicans, have to look at the probable election of Barack Obama as the price to be paid to keep HRC and Bill out of the White House and Oval Office. She approporiately could not carry the day in seeking the nomination and that was the national measure of what a divisive figure she has been. Had she been nominated and then elected, we would be looking at unthinkable hubris and abuse of power. Barack Obama is the price paid to avoid that.

Also, I believe that a longer term issue will be to articulate how we will deal with the inevitable downturn in his popularity several years hence. As that occurs, will we be looking to assess the substantive reasons for that decline, or will it be chalked up as racism by the far left?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 10/10/2008

Asking Republicans to behave reasonably is, I fear, naive. Republicans able and willing to do that now call themselves Democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:48 PM on 10/10/2008
- rgersmrk I'm a Fan of rgersmrk 3 fans permalink
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It's been a long time since I've seen an election become so nasty. The last time I saw crowds get this nasty was back in 92 during Bush/Clinton. Bush was being all out negative towards the press and eventually whipped people voting for him to actually attack press members following him during his campaign. It took several press members pleading to him to turn the rhetoric down to quell the problem.

This is really pathetic. At the end of the day it's just an election. People lives for the most part won't be changed by it. We have real problems facing us right now and stoking the hate meter isn't going to help anyone in this country. It's time people get their level head back on and realize that it's just an election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 10/10/2008
- TXfemmom I'm a Fan of TXfemmom 187 fans permalink

I would hope that cooler heads would prevail. However, I had my vehicle vandalized in 2004 for just having a Kerry sticker on it in Texas, and at a time when so many things are in peril about this country, we have McCain and his campaign pounding away at Barack Obama's middle name, which was given to him, not selected by him, as though that is enough to prove he is someone which will threaten this nation.

The economic and military choices of the Republican administration and Congress have driven us into bankrupty, broken our military, and broken our standing in the world, and they are worried about someone's middle name. We are not speaking of rational, reasonable people on their side.

I want my country to heal, to come together, to work together to face the obstacles in our future, but neither should we permit the Republicans and their goons to intimidate the vote, to rig the vote, to raise their discourse to that befitting Hitler, and to entice the fringe into worse. All of us need to throw everything we have into voting, seeing that everyone who desires to vote gets to vote, that the vote is counted properly, and we need to fight like hell if the Republicans pull some of the stunts in the past in order to divert the election from the will of the country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:37 PM on 10/10/2008
- BBackSoon I'm a Fan of BBackSoon 38 fans permalink
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PUMA would become POMA President Obama My A$$!

What a shame. The echo chamber is full of innuendo and rage. Scary time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:37 PM on 10/10/2008
- nethinde I'm a Fan of nethinde 2 fans permalink

There will be no civil war if Obama wins, and McCain will make the "unite" speech if he loses.

I'm more concerned what happens if McCain wins, not only is he a very scary potential president, but the people will feel the elections were rigged.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 10/10/2008
- tomjones44 I'm a Fan of tomjones44 4 fans permalink

I'm leaving if that happens...and I'm not alone

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 PM on 10/10/2008
- MPeter I'm a Fan of MPeter 25 fans permalink

McCain is a bitter, angry, old man with a poor temperament. He is incapable of being gracious. Don't expect an old, bitter and bigotted crank like him to care about what happens to us or this country if he does not get in power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 10/10/2008
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