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David Berri

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How Rich People Ask for More Money

Posted: 08/24/11 11:43 PM ET

Imagine you are a rich person who desires even more money. You could just boldly ask people to give you more cash. But many might suspect that you don't "need" the money -- or at least, you don't need the money more than they need the money -- and therefore might be inclined to refuse your request. So what can you do?

Well, one solution is to tell people that if they give you more money, they will be better off. Sound ridiculous? Consider the following two tales from the world of sports and politics.

Once upon a time there were 30 rich owners of NBA teams. These owners decided that it would be great if the players accepted a pay cut. After all, if the owners got to pay the players less, the owners would get more. Of course, the players would be skeptical of this scheme.

Therefore the owners advanced the following argument (one can see an example of this argument in a recent issue of Sports Illustrated): If the players accepted both a hard salary cap and less overall money, the large market teams would not have an advantage over the smaller market teams. Consequently, competitive balance in the league would be improved. This would lead to more interest from fans and greater revenue for everyone. In sum, less pay to players today would lead to more pay for the players tomorrow.

The only problem with this story is that the empirical evidence tells a different tale. As I noted a few days ago, the empirical evidence tells us:

  • The NBA -- relative to the other major North American sports -- has historically been relatively imbalanced. This has been true throughout the tenure of commissioner David Stern and is related to the "short supply of tall people" (a problem revenue sharing and salary caps can't fix).
  • Fans don't seem to care much about competitive balance. Despite the lack of balance in the NBA, attendance has increased dramatically over time. The value of the TV contract has also dramatically increased.
  • There is no relationship between market size and team wins in the NBA.
  • Salary caps, payroll caps, luxury taxes, and revenue sharing don't seem to have much impact on competitive balance. We do have evidence, though, that these institutions transfer money from players to owners.

In sum (and one can read the article at The Wages of Wins Journal for more details), the owners contention that the players would benefit in the future if the players took less money today doesn't seem supported by much evidence.

If we look beyond the world of sports we see that the tactic advanced by NBA owners is not exactly original. A few decades ago the world was treated to the following story. Tax cuts -- especially those targeted to the wealthy -- will pay for themselves. This is because rich people will take this money and create jobs. These additional jobs will generate more tax dollars. Therefore, if we give rich people money today, everyone will have more money tomorrow.

Here is how Gregory Mankiw -- economic adviser to George W. Bush -- described this story in the first edition of his textbook in 1998.

An example of fad economics occurred in 1980, when a small group of economists advised presidential candidate Ronald Reagan that an across-the-board cut in income tax rates would raise tax revenue. They argued that if people could keep a higher fraction of their income, people would work harder to earn more income. Even though tax rates would be lower, income would rise by so much, they claimed, that tax revenue would rise. Almost all professional economists, including most of those who supported Reagan's proposal to cut taxes, viewed this outcome as too optimistic. Lower tax rates might encourage people to work harder, and this extra effort would offset the direct effects of lower tax rates to some extent. But there was no credible evidence that work effort would rise by enough to cause tax revenues to rise in the face of lower tax rates. George Bush, also a presidential candidate in 1980, agreed with most of the professional economists: He called this idea "voodoo economics." Nonetheless, the argument was appealing to Reagan, and it shaped the 1980 presidential campaign and the economic policies of the 1980s.

... After Reagan's election, Congress passed the cut in tax rates that Reagan advocated, but the tax cut did not cause tax revenue to rise. Instead, tax revenue fell, as most economists predicted it would, and the U.S. federal government began a long period of deficit spending, leading to the largest peacetime increase in the government debt in U.S. history.

As Mankiw argued in his textbook, the advocates of this story were either charlatans (i.e. people who knew their story was incorrect but wanted attention) or cranks (i.e. people who really believed their theories were true). With the passage of time -- as Mankiw and others have observed -- we have seen the empirical evidence and understand tax cuts do not pay for themselves.

Nevertheless, we still see this story being told. Here are two recent examples from former Republican governor Tim Pawlenty and Mitch McConnell (Republican Senate Minority Leader).

"When Ronald Reagan cut taxes in a significant way, revenues actually increased by almost 100 percent during his eight years as president. So this idea that significant, big tax cuts necessarily result in lower revenues - history does not [bear] that out."(Republican Tim Pawlenty, June 13, 2011)
"There's no evidence whatsoever that the Bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue. They increased revenue, because of the vibrancy of these tax cuts in the economy. So I think what Senator Kyl was expressing was the view of virtually every Republican on that subject."(Republican Mitch McConnell, June 13, 2010)

Bruce Bartlett (who worked in the administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush) went to great lengths to explain that tax cuts do not pay for themselves.

Bartlett also explained that tax increases -- as we saw in both the Reagan and Clinton administration -- do not necessarily severely harm an economy. Despite the evidence, though, we still hear that giving people tax cuts are a huge positive for everyone. And any tax increases are a huge cost for everyone. In sum, we still hear that we should give money to some people (again, primarily rich people) because that will benefit everyone else (including people who don't get the money).

Once again, this is really the same story we hear from NBA owners. But once we see that the empirical evidence contradicts the claims of these people, all we are left with is the story that rich people want more money because rich people want more money. And of course, we probably already knew that.

Let me close by noting that NBA owners have also claimed they are losing money (a claim owners of sports teams have made since the 19th century). Such a claim deserves a post of its own (this is still one of my favorite stories on the subject). For now, I would briefly note that there is good reason to doubt this claim. After all, this is an industry where worker wages are capped (players in the NBA get 57% of revenues), a substantial portion of the NBA's capital (i.e. sports arenas) is provided by the state, and firms have substantial monopoly power in the market place. Furthermore -- and not surprisingly -- the industry doesn't seem to have a problem finding investors. So like the competitive balance claims noted above, the claim of substantial losses is so far not supported by much objective evidence. And that still leaves us with the simple story that people with a great deal of money often would like even more.

 
 
 
Imagine you are a rich person who desires even more money. You could just boldly ask people to give you more cash. But many might suspect that you don't "need" the money -- or at least, you don't ne...
Imagine you are a rich person who desires even more money. You could just boldly ask people to give you more cash. But many might suspect that you don't "need" the money -- or at least, you don't ne...
 
 
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05:08 AM on 08/27/2011
The NBA owners could end the argument if they just opened their books to outside auditors so the players and the skeptical public could see if they are really losing money across the board. But I very much doubt that Stern and the owners will ever allow anyone to see the true revenue figures for the league. Just like with the NFL, any accountant can turn a profit into a lose within the bounds of the federal tax code like all the franchises that employ relatives at inflated salaries for questionable jobs - sort of like Tony Soprano's guys on construction jobs. Now it can be argued that this is just free enterprise at work and the owners - being owners can do what they want with their money - but when the owners go to the public to finance their arenas and stadiums and then ask the players to finance even greater profits then they should be held to account on how the money is spent.
10:10 PM on 08/25/2011
It seems to me that the assumption being made is that when taxes are cut for the nations top 5% this will translate into a investment in, technology, R&D and job creation, but this has not been the case, not for the last 10 years or 30 years if you look at the big picture.
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LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
05:54 PM on 08/26/2011
Of course not, because they aren't investing in things to make better products, they are investing in things that will make them more money. And things that make them more money don't benefit anything but themselves!
ByAndForThePeople
and corporations aren't people!
06:45 PM on 08/25/2011
Republicans don't mention the following when telling us how cutting taxes for the wealthy benefits us (trickle-down) and the country (raise revenue).

The rich are taxed at very low actual (as opposed to nominal) rates on incomes of many millions. Beyond the cuts recently extended, they have even lower capital gains taxes -- not on earnings from companies who get the money from stock sales, but on earnings on the rise in price for stock that's been through dozens of hands.

For now, their income is taxed at a non-zero percentage. Republicans and "supply-siders" would have us believe that further reduction will somehow incentivize the wealthy to "create jobs". What they don't tell us, however, is that money actually invested in business -- buying equipment, paying workers, renting property -- is taxed at 0.00%. That is, such business expenditures are not taxed AT ALL. If the rich really want to invest creating jobs, they'd be doing it already, because it would cost them nothing at all in taxes. Only when the business starts making a profit would taxes be incurred.

The truth is that lowering tax rates, like Republicans demand, doesn't result in wealthy people creating jobs. If they actually invested in building businesses, the money would no longer be in their pockets, but would be tied up in the business. Lower taxes for the wealthy have exactly two results -- less money for the country to build with, and more money in the pockets of the wealthy.
04:26 PM on 08/25/2011
If the rich want more money they would use big ideas like:

Trickle down

Globalization

Bomb Iraq

Bomb Afghanistan

Cut our taxes and it will make us job creators.

Deregulate so unethical and illegal actions are no longer illegal.

Tell the middle class and the poor that Social Security and Medicare are going broke.
That way the rich don’t have to pay taxes to pay it back.

If you are in the medical industry, keep charging more and more no matter who you bankrupt.

If that doesn’t work hire lobbyists to convince the government that doing certain things will make this country work.

Due to poor governance and too much cooperation, the rich have most of the money and assets in this country.

It worked for the rich for a long time, why would they quit?

They either kept more money or received more money depending on which trick they used at what time.
01:56 PM on 08/25/2011
After one cuts through all the BS, especially the vast right wing BS piled up like the Himilayas, the "lessons" are that people, especially those who have tons of money and want tons more, will lie to anyone and everyone to get it. Lying for dollars is the most popular game in town.
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Richard Dix
02:17 PM on 08/25/2011
after one cuts through the b.s. , especially the vast left wing b.s. piled up like the himilayas , the "lessons" are that people who are lazy and covetous, will always want to take money from others , and will always want more , and will lie to anyone and everyone to get it . Lying for dollars is the most popular game in town .
markgoode
a voice from the center
02:59 PM on 08/25/2011
Been wondering if the Koch Brothers' PR firm decided to go with the "lazy and covetous" argument this summer, forgetting of course that "greed" is also one of the seven deadly sins, along with "lust," "pride," "glutony," and "wrath." If our nation's leaders keep diminsihing the middle class in favor or making the rich even more obscenely rich than they already are, they will discover the true meaning of "wrath."
05:05 PM on 08/25/2011
LMAO, Dick Dix. Nice right wing boilerplate! Funny how people on the fringe of the extreme far right are always so wrong.
01:53 PM on 08/25/2011
But sir, your article seems like a waste of time because as we have learned, Republians and their conservative voters routinely ignore empirical evidence on most any subject in favor of a narrative that fits their preconceived notions of how the world works. Narrative and spin trumps reality in their world. They are a "faith based' group of folks.
01:49 PM on 08/25/2011
how much money do you need to be considered rich?
markgoode
a voice from the center
03:01 PM on 08/25/2011
For the sake of argument, let's say $500,000 a year.
ByAndForThePeople
and corporations aren't people!
05:57 PM on 08/25/2011
"more than the other guy". Once your wealth -- or income -- exceeds some absurd amount (say, a million dollars a year or a hundred million in net assets...let's be really generous here), then it's no longer really "money" because there's no way to actually spend it on "things". It simply becomes "points" on a pinball machine, and everybody wants to get more points than the next guy so they "win".
01:36 PM on 08/25/2011
I thought you were going to say if the rich want more money they would come up with big ideas. All of the following ideas have enriched the rich.

Trickle down

Globilization

Start Wars and rebuild what we destroy.

Cut taxes and the rich will be job creators.

Push to deregulate so unethical and illegal actions are no longer illegal.

Tell the middle class and the poor that Social Security and Medicare are going broke. That will keep you from having to pay them back with taxes.

If you are in the medical industry get rich charging, no matter who you bankrupt.

If that doesn’t work hire lobbyists and talk show host to convince the government that doing these things will make this country work.

It worked for the rich, it did, it did.

Watching the million dollar talk show hosts on TV and listening to those millionaires who have power in Washington, I realized there is no way these people can understand the average person. Most who write articles about the plight of the people or our programs are wealthy, too. You can tell by their writing, if they are wealthy.

FDR and his cabinet members were not all poor or even average as far as being wealthy, but they listened to the average person and those who were in trouble because of the depression. That is how they did such a good job of creating The New Deal.
01:27 PM on 08/25/2011
"In sum, we still hear that we should give money to some people (again, primarily rich people) because that will benefit everyone else (including people who don't get the money). "

Got to love the mindset that rich people don't have the ability to work hard and EARN money..It's up to the gov't to determine how much to GIVE them.
markgoode
a voice from the center
03:05 PM on 08/25/2011
The author did phrase that poorly. He's talking about "giving tax cuts" to the rich, reductions in the amounts that, paraphrasing Jesus Christ, they would otherwise be expected to render unto Caesar.
12:12 PM on 08/25/2011
It really is pretty funny how greed is an uncontrollable addiction. Warren Buffett's wealth increased by about $8 Billion last year, but he paid about $7 Million in taxes, or less than 1/10 of one percent of his wealth increase. Minimum wage workers pay at least a 7.65% payroll tax. Mr. Buffett has asked for a Capital gains tax increase that would increase his taxes negligibly. This is smoke and mirrors. If his comapny, Berkshire Hathaway, paid a 5% dividend and was taxed as ordinary income, his taxes would increase to about $700 Million (a hundred fold increase).

Fifty years ago, successful companies paid out a lot more of their profits as dividends. Then, CEO's figured out that retained earnings in corporations were the best way to gorw wealth without paying individual income taxes.
NoRhymeOrReason
Teach your children well...
11:39 AM on 08/25/2011
Economics is nothing more than the study of human nature as it relates to interactions and transactions involving human wants and needs.

Progressives have an optimistic and idealistic outlook on human nature. And, conservatives have a pessimistic and cynical outlook on human nature.

Centrists have a curious and realistic outlook on human nature. Too bad there aren't more of us.
12:58 PM on 08/25/2011
I actually think you have the progressive/conservative paradigm backwards. Conservatives believe in laissez-faire principles; that if we have no regulations everything will turn out fine. Greenspan admitted in his congressional hearing that he was far too "optimistic" about human nature during his tenure as FED chief.
NoRhymeOrReason
Teach your children well...
02:53 PM on 08/25/2011
Laissez-fa­ire principles exist in the realm where Neo-Conservative and Neo-Liberal ideals merge into the Libertarian ideals. Libertarians think that they are centrist because they appeal to both extremes of the spectrum. But, they are not in the center. They are in the most extreme fringe. True Centrism is anti-Laissez-faire. True Centrism is for the minimum amount of regulation necessary to maintain a truely functioning economy.
markgoode
a voice from the center
03:17 PM on 08/25/2011
Very good read on Centrism:

http://centrism.com/

(Don't agree with the paradigm that liberals/progressives see human nature as good, versus conservatives/teapartiers who see it as bad. That's actually the difference between Catholics and Protestants. However, because Protestant evangelicals have such a firm control over the polticial rightwing these days, I do agree that their view of human nature as degraded and evil does heavily influence current Republican thinking.)
NoRhymeOrReason
Teach your children well...
04:06 PM on 08/25/2011
Yeah. I probably could have left off the optimistic and pessimistic comparison. Idealism vs. cynicism would have been sufficient. Also, I am an independent centrist (I don't follow any organized groups or philosophy). To me, every issue can be charted on a normal distribution (such as: left - center - right). The scales are universal and can be found by logical investigation. Describing how the population shapes each chart is the key to restoring a centrist influence.
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Decorina
Hypocrisy means your karma ran over your dogma
11:08 AM on 08/25/2011
Such a long story to say that when politicians ask for more money for the rich they just lie. And it works! Says a LOT about 'merican voters I think.
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wolfdancer
Republicans -this is why we can't have nice things
11:01 AM on 08/25/2011
When Ronald Reagan was elected this country was actually in good shape economically notwithstanding the Jimmy Carter bashing. Reagan proceeded to cut taxes where the high brackets were heavily favored over the lower brackets. He then created these ridiculous budgets with expenditures all over the place. The expenditures were not to strengthen social security or medicare. There were no additional expenditures to enhance education and job skills in this country. There was no investments in new sources of energy even though we just went through a middle east oil crisis. The expenditures were defense oriented like the Star Wars project and Superconducting SuperCollider project in Waxahachie, Texas. I mention the SuperCollider because I lived in the Dallas area. Thee project was underfunded by about 50 times. Every year new expenditures were added in the budget. The contracts went to companies associated with John Tower, Republican Senator, one of the politicians that delivered Texas to Reagan. Of course, Haliburton was included in this. The project went on until 1993 when Bill Clinton had the good sense to shut it down. Now a big useless tunnel exist around the Dallas area. You can tell a similar story about Star Wars.

Republicans created these budgets. So, you can't make the argument that we are taking rich people's money in the form of taxes. They need to pay for the debt they rang up under Reagan then Bush. IT IS NOT THEIR MONEY. They are like deadbeat dads. Pay-up you wicked greedy Republicans!!
02:24 PM on 08/25/2011
Excellent points, wolf. The men in the GOP are mostly like deadbeat dads as you say and abusive husbands. They are like sociopathic, sadistic abusers, period. Serial killers of the civil order and the commonwealth. And these are the people who call themselves "conservative" supposedly exercising virtuous "fiscal discipline" and "personal responsibility." Scamming Republicans tell the most howling lies about money.
11:00 AM on 08/25/2011
Soooooo...you just want to raise taxes?? :/

Well I'll tell you one thing, I dunno if more money would make me work more, but less money will certainly make me work less.
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PJ Parker
DC is Wall St's Customer Service Department
11:07 AM on 08/25/2011
"less money will certainly make me work less. "

Really? If your employer or you have to pay taxes you would work less? No problem. There are millions of people in America who would work for less, just to have your job.
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luvsox
Progressive by Choice, Democrat by Default
11:13 AM on 08/25/2011
Ask your boss for a raise, then, and quit expecting the government to do everything for you.
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MoreFreedom
10:42 AM on 08/25/2011
Mankiw writes and Berri quotes him "After Reagan's election, Congress passed the cut in tax rates that Reagan advocated, but the tax cut did not cause tax revenue to rise."

So looking at the US federal government revenue from 1980-1990 at http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/downchart_gr.php?year=1980_1990&view=1&expand=&units=b&log=linear&fy=fy12&chart=F0-total&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&title=&state=US&color=c&local=s it shows revenue increasing every year under Regan.

Berri or Mankiw actually lie here. They discredit themselves and show themselves to be partisan liars not worth reading, and they should both be ashamed of themselves.
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LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
01:34 PM on 08/25/2011
Actually, the reason tax revenues rose every year (except the two that it didn't rise....) were due to the tax INCREASES that Reagan then pushed through every year but two. The problem is that the tax increases he pushed through were all heavily weighted to the poor and middle class, much like his tax CUTS had been heavily weighted to the rich.
02:42 PM on 08/25/2011
You sound like a black kettle talking to a black pot. Are you a partisan liar not worth reading who should be ashamed of himself?