Amanda Peet vs. the Medical Establishment

This week, actress Amanda Peet called parents who don't vaccinate their kids "parasites," and then essentially went on to lie when she announced that scientists have concluded there is "no association between autism and vaccines."

Peet saw fit to blast "the media and journalists" and "a few fringe medical groups and parent advocacy groups" for "presenting vaccine safety as a controversy." She thinks the debate, save for a few dangerous holdouts, is over.

I thought that Ms. Peet (and her ill-advised advisors such as Dr. Paul Offit) might want to see from whence these parasitic, fringey parents and doctors have been getting their cues of late.

Here are just a few recent examples:

July 15, 2008 - A workgroup report of the IACC (the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee, which includes HHS, CDC, NIH and others) says that some members want "specific objectives on vaccine research" included in the new, multimillion-dollar national autism research program, as mandated by Congress in the Combatting Autism Act.

Notes from the meeting indicate that workgroup members want federal researchers to consider "shortfalls" in epidemiological studies cited as proof against a vaccine-autism association (by Offit, Peet, et al); as well as a specific plan "for researching vaccines as a potential cause of autism." The workgroup also says that the final research agenda should "state that the issue is open."

July 14, 2008 - Rep. Brad Miller (R-NC), Chairman of the House Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight, (Committe on Science and Technology) writes to HHS Secretary Michael Leavitt to complain that current federal autism research "shows a strong preference to fund genetic-based studies," even though there is, "growing evidence that suggests a wide range of conditions or environmental exposures may play a role" in autism. He cites a recent study on vaccines and monkeys, presented as a poster (unreviewed) at the International Society for Autism Research, which, "suggests that research on primates is about to emerge that will provide additional evidence of environmental contributions to ASD."

Rep. Miller specifically cites the case of Hannah Poling as "just one example that is suggestive of very important lines of inquiry," and he recommends some "very suggestive writings along these lines," such as the April 5, 2008 letter from Terry Poling, (Hannah's mother, an attorney and former nurse) to The New York Times titled, "Vaccines, Autism and Our Daughter, Hannah."

Finally, Rep Miller writes that HHS "has lost much of the public's trust," and urges Mr. Leavitt to form a Secretarial-level Autism Advisory Board to provide public feedback, liaise with parents groups, and "assist in reestablishing the public trust" that Ms. Peet herself said was lagging. Miller recommends tapping groups such as Safe Minds, Generation Rescue, Autism Speaks and the Autism Research Institute for their, "experience evaluating research' and an "in-depth knowledge of the current body of ASD research." All four groups support vaccine-autism research, and thus presumably fall within the rubric of what Ms. Peet terms as "fringe."

May 12, 2008 - Dr. Bernadine Healy, former head of the NIH and the American Red Cross and current Health Editor of US News & World Report tells CBS News that, "Officials have been too quick to dismiss the hypothesis as irrational," and says they "don't want to pursue a hypothesis because that hypothesis could be damaging to the public health community at large by scaring people."

But, unlike Amanda Peet, Dr. Healy believes that, "the public's smarter than that. The public values vaccines. But more importantly, I don't think you should ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because you're afraid of what it might show."

April 21, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. Barack Obama, speaking at a rally in Pennsylvania, answers a question about autism by saying: "We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

April 11, 2008 - The HHS Vaccine Safety Working Group (comprised of the nation's leading vaccine experts) meets to review the CDC's draft research proposal for vaccine safety issues. Among the top vaccine questions that CDC wants answered: "Are neurodevelopmental disorders, including autism, clinical outcomes of vaccine injury?" And, "Is immunization associated with increased risk for neurological deterioration in children with mitochondrial dysfunction?"

March 29, 2008 - Dr. Julie Gerberding, Director of the CDC, speaking about the Hannah Poling case on CNN says: "If a child was immunized, got a fever, had other complications from the vaccines, and was pre-disposed with the mitochondrial disorder, it can certainly set off some damage (including) symptoms that have characteristics of autism." And she adds: "I think we have to have an open mind about this." Meanwhile, the CDC website lists autism studies it currently funds on thimerosal and the MMR vaccine.

March 11, 2008 - The CISA Network (Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment), headed by the CDC, receives a report from top researchers at Johns Hopkins University that 30 typically developing children with mitochondrial dysfunction all regressed into autism between 12 and 24 months of life. At least two of them (6%) showed brain damage within one week of receiving simultaneous multiple vaccinations.

Included in this vaccine safety network is the US health insurance industry - which is now being forced by many states to cover autism treatments, and wants to know what possible role vaccines are playing in the neurodevelopmental health of children. A month later, the CISA network announces it has "formed a working group to study methods related to mitochondrial disorders and immunization."

February 25, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. John McCain says at a rally in Texas that "It's indisputable that (autism) is on the rise amongst children, the question is what's causing it. And we go back and forth and there's strong evidence that indicates that it's got to do with a preservative in vaccines." McCain notes that there's "divided scientific opinion" on the matter, with "many on the other side that are credible scientists that are saying that's not the cause of it."

February 22, 2008 - Medical Personnel at HHS concede an autism case filed by the family of Hannah Poling in the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, before the claim can go to trial as a "test case" of the theory that thimerosal causes autism. Though portrayed by some (ie, Dr. Offit) as a legal decision, it is in fact a medical decision. HHS doctors admit that the "cause" of Hannah's "autistic encephalopathy" was "vaccine-induced fever and immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic reserves," which exacerbated her underlying mitochondrial dysfunction. At 19 months of age, Hannah was given 5 injections containing nine vaccines.

January, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton, responding to a questionnaire, says that autism is "epidemic," and that she is, "committed to make investments to find the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines." When asked if she will support an autism study of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children, she replies: "Yes. We don't know what, if any, kind of link there is between vaccines and autism - but we should find out."

So there you have it. Since the beginning of the year, we have heard from:

1) Three United States Senators
2) The next President (and possibly Vice President) of the country
3) The Director of the CDC (and her "open mind")
4) The former head of the NIH and the American Red Cross
5) The Chairman of a House Science Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight
6) A respected Pediatric Neurologist and Resident at Johns Hopkins University Medical School (Dr. Jon Poling)
7) The HHS Vaccine Safety Working Group
8) The CDC's Vaccine Safety Research Agenda authors
9) Medical personnel at the HHS Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
10) The Strategic Planning Workgroup of the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee
11) The Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment Network
12) Leading autism researchers at Johns Hopkins University Medical School
13) America's health insurance companies

Virtually all of the above advocate, or have at least considered, exploring the possible links between vaccines and autism.

I am not a parent, and I am not anti-vaccine. But if I were going to listen to experts on this subject, I would be more likely to consult some of these people, rather than a well-meaning but grossly misinformed actress who is guided by a doctor who will likely make money from his own work helping to develop a childhood vaccine.

Ms. Peet apologized for calling parents "parasites," and that's nice. But it is her continued use of the "fringe" label, I believe, that will ultimately come back to bite her the hardest.

The vaccine-autism debate may be over in the firmly closed minds of Peet and Offit, but for serious, rational thinkers such as those listed above, this debate (and the real work that lies ahead) has only just begun.

Comments

[arachne646]

There aren't any immunizations currently given as a routine part of childhood vaccination series that contain thimerosal (mercury). Ask your Dr. or nurse what preservative is used if you are concerned with that batch, it is used quite rarely now. A study looking at the incidence of autism in a group of children who had been vaccinated with thimerosal­-preserved vaccine, and compared it to the incidence in a group of children who had received the same vaccines, but with the non-mercury preservative, showed no difference in the incidence of autism.

Why is the rate of diagnosis not mentioned more often? When my son, 26, was growing up, much less attention was paid to the causes of learning disabilities, or mental retardation. Children who did not learn were treated kindly or ignored, and those whose acting out was troublesome to parents were medicated or institutionalized. It is not so long ago that any baby or child who was not "normal" was diagnosed, not so individualized treatment could be provided, but so that the newborn, or child, could be removed from the home asap so the family could "get back to normal" and go on living.

I feel for all of you, and wish all the families well in their learning and healing, but I would encourage a good scientific method of enquiry, being aware that bias can occur on drug company's side, and also support group's.

[CraigWilloughby]

Flu vaccines are regularly administered as part of routine childhood vaccinations. Most of them contain Thimerosal. Unfortunately, the studies you show were all epidemiological, and they are admittedly flawed according to the CDC. The problem with these studies is that they only look at statistical data and not at the actual cases. Epidemiology will not find suseptible subgroups, like we saw with Hannah Poling. There have been absolutely no studies that looked at the cumulative effect of multiple vaccines given over a short period (the studies you mentioned didn't look at that either). Also, the CDC et al refuses to look at susceptible subgroups and they refuse to pursue investigation into children who developed adverse reactions to vaccines. Why?

We can't drop this as parents of vaccine injured children. We can't just let it go. We can't let this happen to any more children.

[mamacat]

I think she is a very good actress, but I would take anything she says about medicine with a big grain of salt, as they used to say.

[thenicerguy]

So, folks, did you finally give up on the flat earth theory? I'm always amazed at the small groups of "dedicated individuals" who fly in the face of simple logic and the established medical community to offer some whackjob cure of procedure.

Alternative science worked REEEEAL well for Steve McQueen, didn't it?

I'm sorry that your children are ill, but blindly jogging behind Forrest Gump is not going to change the world. It's just going to leave you stranded in the middle of the desert.

[ObjectiveAutismDad]

Sir or madam, We are not blind. You are. One size fits all doesn't work for medicine. There are numerous scientific studies showing the toxicity of several of the vaccine components. A small percentage of children cannot handle these overloads. My son has mercury poisoning (as tested by blood, stool and urine samples). He never ate a lot of fish when he was younger (he's 17 now), we don't live near any power plants or other sources of environmental mercury, and never swallowed any of the mercury thermometers that we got rid of a long time ago. He DID get over 130x the EPA limit for mercury (methyl-mercury limit which now appears to be too low) from his vaccines. So where the heck do you think he got the mercury poisoning from?

If you're sorry about our kids then that's fine. Just remember it's YOUR tax dollars that are going to pay the bulk of their support for the rest of their lives (my son is already enrolled in a private school at tax-payers expense -- the tuition there is higher than most universities).

[CraigWilloughby]

So, what you are asking us to do is deny what we have seen with our own eyes. Many of our children were normal; walking, talking, laughing. They got a vaccine, most of them several vaccines at once. They developed a fever, screaming, back arching. They no longer spoke or walked or laughed. My son didn't speak to me for 5 years until a few weeks after I started him on the DAN protocols and the GFCF diet. On Father's Day, his first word in 5 years was "Daddy!" (High-five to Tanner's Dad....still one of the high-lights of my life, my friend).

So, what do we tell our kids? "Oh, I'm just kidding...I was lying. Here, take these psychotropic drugs that cost $20 a pill."

To deny what has happened is to deny what we are fighting for EVERY DAY to give our children the best possible life. I refuse to do that. I can not and will not deny what I have seen with my own eyes. I have medical documentation that states that my son developed an encepalopathy after receiving a vaccine and regressed into autism.

So, go ahead and stick with the rest of the blind sheeple that jog behind the pHARMa-scum Pauly prOffit and be stranded in the middle of the desert. When you wake up, we'll be waiting.

[AutismNewsBeat]

No Craig, we're asking you to provide empirical evidence. Anecdotes are unreliable.

[TheBlackCat]

I have a question for those who do side with the vaccines-cause autism side. Do you suggest that there be a moratorium on all vaccines, or just that there be serious investigation into the link?

I understand wanting legislation that makes vaccinations safer, and wanting the health care community to investigate links between autism and other diseases. There are other risks too. When I travel internationally and need a vaccine I get a big packet listing all the possible side effects. But to not vaccinate at all due to these risks is far more dangerous. It's like not wearing a seatbelt for fear it could get stuck in a fire. I have worked in various orphanages and health care centers in third world nations, and i have seen the effects of a society in which vaccines are simply not available. The infant death rates from these diseases are truly hellish, and hygene is just not enough to prevent them.

I know that vaccines have their risks, and as I said I fully support measures to make them safer. I think the autism link should be fully investigated. But most people who are completely anti-vaccine have probably never been to a country where these diseases run rampant due to no vaccinations at all. Side effects can be tragic, but the small risk of something going wrong is far preferable to these diseases spreading unchecked, killing children like flies.

[AutismNewsBeat]

Black Cat:
You're addressing people who think vaccines don't work at all. People who only know what they read on a select few internet sites who will tell you that nobody every dies from measles, or that it's better to get a disease "naturally" than with a weakened or dead antigen. These people also think vaccines contain "anti-freeze", and refuse to believe that formaldehyde is a naturally occurring substance that is found in all of our bloodstreams. But nice try.

[TheBlackCat]

I don't know what you mean by "nice try." I didn't know WHO I was adressing, I don't know what people commenting on this story are thinking so I was trying to find out: if most people commenting were worried about vaccines and want to make them safer and follow up on any possible links to side effects (totally reasonable in my opinion), or were just flat out against vaccines.

[ObjectiveAutismDad]

Trying to pigeon-hole people is the defense of the weak minded. There may be some who have responded here who are completely anti-vaccine but I'd be willing to bet that the majority are not (as I am not). We just want someone to look at this problem -- because it is a problem perceived if not otherwise. You also don't know anything about what information people have reviewed.

And, BTW, it is absolutely well documented that you do acquire much greater immunity from getting the disease than getting the vaccines. That's the whole point behind getting booster shots. If some kid throws eggs at your house you might consider getting a light in your front yard. If they break in and trash the place your more likely to get a full blown alarm system... Your body does the same thing.

Finally, a word of advice... Stick to the points and stop attacking people for being who they are. You have considerably less respect (zero from many here) if you just attack people ad hominem.

[CraigWilloughby]

Well, if you listen to Ken here, he paints us all as unreasonable idiots. However, most of us will tell you that we have vaccinated our children (I have 3 children. The 1st 2 were vaccinated according to the schedule, the 3rd was at a slower rate. My oldest 2 are both on the spectrum. My oldest daughter has mild Asperger's, and my son is very severe and non-verbal. My youngest is 100% normal). I'm not sure about the rest of us, but I want some type of moratorium. We need safer vaccines, and a more strict and strigent set of checks and balances needs to be enforced on an industry that is almost completely unregulated.

And Ken? How often does a child in the US die of Measles? Say, for the past 20 years.

I know that measles can cause an encepalopathy and can cause brain damage in some children. Like what happened to my son after he received the DTaP and MMR on the same day.

[AutismNewsBeat]

An 1990 measles outbreak in NY City affected 2,500 people, kiling eight. Does that count?

And why confine the death toll to the US? What, Africans don't count?

And when did I call you an "unreasonable idiot"? Is that really how you feel about yourself?

[Theda]

Research the polio epidemic of the early and mid-1950's. It was the most feared and dreaded disease in the United States. Countless children died and others were disabled for life because of it. When Jonas Salk created the polio vaccine, he saved lives and took away the horrendous fear.

[waitforme]

You are missing the facts. Vaccines can come in one-user vials or multi-user vials. The multi-user vials have mercury in them as a way to counteract contamination and make them last longer. All vials of vaccines COULD be offered in one-use vials which would obviate the need for mercury. It isn't necessarily the vaccines' faults some kids and people get the illness they are being vaccinated for or some other (like autism) serious problem.-- Although I think that a given vaccine has the potential to not have been produced properly and thus cause illness or that a child or adult will have an idiosyncratic reaction to it.

Who is Amanda Peet to be condemning vaccines? I loved her in that movie as .......'s daughter. But no one can make a legitimate claim of a negative sort, that is, you can't prove a negative; for someone to be so vociferous and fanatical about a negative, that is, that 'vaccines don't cause autism', when that is an open question and ripe for urgent research, is to wonder why she is doing this.

[AutismNewsBeat]

Exactly, you cannot prove a negative. That's why Amanda would have been better off saying "There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism." No study, as you correctly state, can ever prove that vaccines don't cause autism. The best we can do is to look at a preponderance of the evidence, which currently shows no link.

[waitforme]

I forgot to mention: Parents should demand that any vaccine given their child at least (if they must use a vaccine at all) come from a vial which is small enough to be used only ONE TIME and not from a multi-use vial (which contains mercury). They should wait until the pediatrician can order one-time vials if necessary and then go to research which discusses vaccines' effectivenesses and dangers. I didn't have my daughter vaccinated (except for German measles just before she got pregnant) and she never got any illness -- an n of one, surely, but possibly instructive. (She was also breast-fed for seven months, which confers a mother's immunities, at least for awhile, on children.) I was shocked when my daughter allowed her pediatrician to give many, many vaccines (and then returning for more) to my grand-children. (She also rejects whole-grain bread, organic food and homeopathic medicines.) By the way, one can give Thuja, a homeopathic remedy, to children or adults, just after a vaccine is given, to help off-set vaccines' effects. (And consult a homeopathic practitioner or book to get more suggestions.)

[saami]

The reason your daughter didn't get measles, mumps and ruebella was because the other people were vaccinated!! Homeopathic remegies are not science they are mumbo jumbo. There is no real evidence other than antidotal that they do anything. They are not medicine because no one really has truly studied them. Next time you get severely injured have them put homeopathic gunk on your wound and take some homeopathic remedies instead of antibiotics. Do you know what scientific method is? Do you know what a quack is... a homeopathic "doctor". I know it is worthless trying to talk reason to someone who believes in magic beans.

[AutismNewsBeat]

Why would you want to offset the effect of a vaccine? What effect are you talking about - immunity from disease?

[BlackJAC]

In all legitimate seriousness, how long does the average vaccine keep in order to go with the single-use ampoule plan? Pre-loading syringes with the stuff does make sense, especially if you have to mass-innoculate a group of people, but how much of a window would you have between manufacture and spoilage?

[saami]

Forgot to mention because it doesn't change what I said, one of my grandsons has Asbergers syndrome, a form of autism. I understand the frustration of dealing with autism, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We need good science where the studies are not funded by those who would benefit. And we need research for prevention and a cure.

[saami]

Unfortunately we don't have a 100% sure answer, but the mercury has been out of vaccines for many years and the autism rate hasn't gone down. We continue to expose our babies to all sorts of chemicals and no one knows the consequences of that. There are thousands of chemicals in use in the past 20 years that no one knows their effect on us humans. Mr. Kirby is not a scientist and has collected a lot of opinions but his opinion may or not be true any more than Ms. Peets. Opinion is opinion and science is a wholly different thing. Something that is true is the damage done to the babies born to women who contracted measles during that pregnancy including retardation, blindness, etc. Many other "childhood" diseases create havoc when adults get the disease or when pregnant women get the disease and the fetus is badly damaged. As a nurse, I know that life is a crap shoot. You can do everything right and die young and you can be a SOB and live a long life. Nothing is guaranteed and nothing is 100%. But it is a better world without small pox and polio. Vaccinations did that.

[CraigWilloughby]

saami, vaccines still contain mercury. I urge you to go check out the FDA's website and find which ones still contain thimerosal. Additionally, thimerosal is still used in nearly every vaccine during its manufacture, but during the process is filtered or reduced to lesser levels. It has not been removed.

[linlou34]

So that you are better informed check out the CDC's web or google vaccine ingredients. You will find a flie to download from the CDC's website lising the ingredients. Check them out and count, like I have, all of the vaccines that still have Thimerisol in them, and by the way check out the other ingredients too. Then scroll down and note the date it was updated. April 2008, this year!

No one here wants fatal diseases rampant in this country or world, but do demand cleaner vaccines, safer ones.

[Pacific231]

Rumor mill: Amanda Peet's next movie will include several very explicit, full frontal NC-17 scenes as long as the script includes plenty of anti-vaccine dialogue. Sounds like a fair trade off to me.

;-)

[CEDobson]

A sad fact, but any drug distributed has risks. I could take an antibiotic and do fine, whereas someone else could take that same drug and die. I can eat peanut butter, but the kid next door goes into respiratory distress with a taste. The human body is a complex "machine," and this is why any drug should not be mandated.

I never understood why vaccinations are required in the public school system. A child cannot walk into a school without the appropriate vaccines (unless given special permission). Not to sound impersonal, but if my kids are covered, if a child contracts an illness because not vaccinated (by choice), my kids won't get it or any other child vaccinated. Conversely, if my kids end up with autism or brain damage, the shoe is on the other foot. Brain damage and autism are not contagious.

I would much rather be a parent making decisions for my kids and their health care rather than being told I have to do so. We know our children and their health better than our government.

[TheBlackCat]

I'm not really sure why you HAVE to have your kids vaccinated to go to school, but I have a guess based on personal experience:

When I was 13 I contracted Whooping Cough, which had been vaccinated for. Further tests showed that I had a genetic predisposition for my NOT accepting the whooping cough vaccine. It was as if I had never had the vaccine. It turns out that a small number of people can be vaccinated for something but still not become immune to it. When I developed whooping cough the CDC came to my school and YMCA and tested everyone, since others (though vaccinated) could have contracted it for the same reasons I had, and I was put on a drug regiment that made me non contagious.

So I think the reason they don't want non vaccinated kids in school is because if they bring in a disease, they are still able to pass it along to vaccinated kids. The rationalization is probably this: they want to prevent the spread of disease as much as possible. For those few kids whose bodies don't accept the vaccine, there's nothing more you can do. Children who are NOT vaccinated, however, pose a preventable threat. Schools do not want PREVENTABLE vectors of disease on top of the non preventable vectors (like myself) who are already within the population.

So that is my GUESS as to why schools require vaccinations. I've no opinion either way on the issue.

[AutismNewsBeat]

That's a very good guess. You're talking about herd immunity. If a high percentage of the population is vaccinated (90% and up), then it will be harder for a pathogen to spread among those who aren't immune. People who don't vaccinate by choice are reaping the benefits of vaccines from those who do.

[Doybia]

Alas, and alack, but the vaccine for pertussis (whooping cough) does not prevent carriage or transmission of the disease. No herd immunity, no matter how many children you vaccinate, no matter how many adults you vaccinate. Odd that so few people are aware of this important fact. Could someone be spreading misinformation?

So why is this vaccine useless for herd immunity? The bacteria which causes whooping cough produces a toxin. The vaccine protects against the toxin, sometimes, but not against the bacteria. Therefore, logically, we can all tote the pertussis bacteria hither and yon, sick or not sick and share it at any moment.

The vaccine does have one interesting side-effect. It makes it very hard for a doctor to diagnose whooping cough correctly in a vaccinated person. This means that someone could have an active case of whooping cough and think they have bronchitis or asthma. Nifty! Another interesting side-effect of the vaccine is to lessen the symptoms of whooping cough, which might be nice, but, as it doesn't interfere at all with the sharing of the disease, the vaccine is probably causing more cases as it reduces the symptoms.

Here is a nice little article about the vaccine and the CDC information (all of the CDC information): http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?p=84

[recruitgal]

Everyone has a choice whether to vaccinate or not, and if I ever have kids, they will be first in line for their vaccinations.

Ms Peet is perfectly entitled to express her opinion without being vilified. But here is the thing - you don't have to listen to her. She isn't an authority on the subject, and even if she were, nobody is forcing you to do anything.

[CEDobson]

recruitgal: I have to disagree. We do not have a choice whether or not to vaccinate. Your child, unless given special permission, and an act of God, cannot walk into a public school without the proper vaccinations. If late on a vaccine (different boosters throughout the years), they will send your child home.

My argument lies in exactly that, choice. My kids were vaccinated, by choice - and believe me, I thought through this issue and weighed the pros and cons carefully. I did see the harsh, rude treatment of parents who did not wish to have their children vaccinated. Some of their children were late starting school because of it.

I think the issue lies in the choice and not the vaccines themselves. Thousands upon thousands of children are vaccinated without problems. Good information, risks and benefits and close contact with your pediatrician, as well as conversations with other parents is necessary and the duty of every parent.

My kids were healthy, fat, bouncy babies born on time, if not late. If I had given birth to an underweight, sickly child, I would not have vaccinated.

[JadziaDax]

"We do not have a choice whether or not to vaccinate. Your child, unless given special permission, and an act of God, cannot walk into a public school without the proper vaccinations. If late on a vaccine (different boosters throughout the years), they will send your child home."

This is incorrect. In most states, all you need to do is sign an exemption form that you object to the vax. All states except for 2 have religious exemptions. Many others have philosophical exemptions. Schools won't publicize this, but savvy parents know their rights.

[CraigWilloughby]

I have to respectfully disagree with you somewhat. I think the reason that Amanda is being vilified is because of her parasite comment. I have vaccinated all 3 of my kids, and many parents are here discussing this issue because they DID vaccinate and their (and my) children degenerated into autism. How are we riding on the immunity of the vaccinated, then? How are we parasites for wanting parents to know what's going on and helping them make informed decisions on the health of their children? I wouldn't wish the pain and the frustration and the heartbreak of Autism on anyone, not even Peet, prOffit and Gerberding.

[NoSillyName]

I think the only vaccine I received as a child in the '50s was for polio and I admit I know nothing about all the vaccines given to children now, but something strikes me as odd:

The recent articles about CFLs breaking and releasing a minute amount of mercury vapor supposedly requires a call for a Haz Mat clean up.

Yet injecting mercury into very young children with undeveloped immune systems is supposedly ok.

Huh?

[BatMasterson]

Vaccines haven't been made with mercury since the early 2000's but it didn't hurt me (born in 83).

Yet injecting mercury into very young children with undeveloped immune systems is supposedly because... there is such a small amount. It's no more dangerous than getting mercury from eating fish. Peet is right; Jenney McCarthy is wrong.

[CraigWilloughby]

You are incorrect. Mercury is still in many childhood vaccines, including the DT, TT, and most flu shots. It wasn't removed from the DTaP or the HepB until last year. Please talk to your vaccine high priests and tell them to get their lies straight. Thanks.

[ObjectiveAutismDad]

Do you eat peanuts? I'm guessing maybe yes. For some people that's deadly. Can you take penicillin? Again, maybe yes, but it's not so good for some people. So why would you think that EVERY child should get their vaccines?

Studies have shown that a significant percentage of autistic children can not detox heavy metals. When they get these shots it gets into their brains... And it's not easy to get out. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[kellianndavis]

"It's no more dangerous than getting mercury from eating fish."

Says who? You?

"Show me the study" -- think Jerrry McQuire -- that demonstrates the level at which mercury is safe to inject. Just one study.

[JeffMOM]

Hey folks

Thimerosal still exists in shots. Aluminum is higher in shots as well. Trace amounts are considered more toxic than what should be in drinking water.

ANB: A child could receive Meningococcal and the flu vaccine and be exposed to 50 mcg in one day. Add in another shot with 12.5 micrograms or trace amounts of thimerosal and then the others in the rountine schedule with aluminum. These are standard vaccines given routinely to children.

Source; thimerosal http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t3

Would you be willing to line up for the same vaccines?

[LindsE]

Meningococcal is recommended for adolescents. According to the AAP, flu vaccination is only recommended in high risk individuals in this age group.

Trace amounts of what are considered more toxic than what should be in drinking water? Thimerosal? Aluminum? Both?

And to answer your final question, yes, I would. In fact, I received the meningococcal and Hep B on the same day, at a time when I believe there was still thimerosal in the Hep B vaccine. It was summer, so it wasn't time for a flu vaccine.

[sarah130]

No - the recommendations on the flu vaccine have been changed. They are recommended yearly for every child 6mos -18 years of age. your info is out of date. Check the CDC website.

[AutismNewsBeat]

The "drinking water" guidelines assume you drink water every day, which we do. Right?

[TheProbe]

Kirby says:

"I am not a parent, and I am not anti-vaccine. But if I were going to listen to experts on this subject, I would be more likely to consult some of these people, rather than a well-meaning but grossly misinformed actress"

Oh, you mean Jenny McCarthy?

I rephrase: "who is guided by a doctor who will likely make money from his own chemical castration and manufactured research to support his well rejected testimony".

[BatMasterson]

zing....

[CraigWilloughby]

And then we have a man who made prOffit (misspelling intentional) from the deaths of his failed virus (it was a vaccine, I know, but that mistype was also intentional). And you still think your Vaccine high priest is trying to help our kids? I'll take my chances, I think, with a doctor who is concerned about curing this illness.

[LindsE]

Regarding funding for research into autism and vaccines:
Are we talking about NIH funding? I don't know how well the general public understands the funding process or the current funding situation. Investigators submit grants, which are reviewed by study sections consisting of other investigators. The study sections rank the grants based on their scientific merit, etc, and thereby select which grants to fund. The system in general works pretty well, and a similar setup is used by a number of private societies that also fund research.

However, the problem at the moment is that money is tight. Paylines in some institutes are in the single digits. That means that less than 10% of grant proposals actually get funded, despite how good the science may be.

So tell me...how many researchers are looking for funding to work on the vaccine/autism issue? Are their grants any good? Is there compelling preliminary data in those grants?

If no one is applying for grants to study the vaccine/autism issue, then of course it's not funded. Is that a failure of the funding system? If bad grants without a lot of preliminary data are being submitted, then of course they aren't getting funded. There are plenty of great grants with lots of data that aren't being funded.

[ObjectiveAutismDad]

$48B over the next five years to combat AIDS and malaria (which afflict Africa considerably more than they do the US) vs $945 over five years for Autism. This is what our government approved for research in these areas. And people wonder why we're making so much noise.

Also, part of the problem has been that those who do these studies often find that they're soon out of a job. The medical establishment doesn't want these studies to be done -- because it scares the heck out of them.

[LindsE]

Would you please post a reference for your numbers?

"Also, part of the problem has been that those who do these studies often find that they're soon out of a job. The medical establishment doesn't want these studies to be done -- because it scares the heck out of them."

People aren't typically forced out of jobs for doing good science. Do you have any specific examples of this you'd like to share? Who exactly is "the medical establishment"?

[TheBlackCat]

Can I ask where you are getting your information? I work for a cancer center and did a search on linux, google and our own research study databases and could not find any examples of doctors losing their jobs due to requesting a study.

I did however find a long list of studies that HAVE been done on the link between autism and vaccines. Most of these studies were initiated by doctors who did in fact suspect a link. These peer reviewed, multi disciplinary studies have concluded that the MMR, Flu shots, and Thimerosal do not cause autism. The studies state that autism typical reveals itself in children the same age they receive many vaccines.

Furthermore, the original study from 1998 which suggested that these vaccines cause autism, the study that caused the whole vaccines-c­ause-autis­m movement, has been retracted by 10 of the 13 authors. Their follow up studies showed that many of the children in their study actually exhibited signs of autism PRIOR to vaccination.

With any scientific inquiry you want to be as sure as possible, and I would certainly want more reasearch into the matter. There are many studies are still being reviewed that may tell us conflicting information.

But your claims of conspiracy in the medical establishment are simply unfounded. Either you or your sources are simply lying to try and prove a non existant conspiracy, which is what people usually end up doing when empirical data does not support their position.

[bluevalentine]

Well done, once again! Thanks david!

Ms Peet offered no apology, just a slap in the face.
Amanda, sit down and take the time to research. You are selling yourself short by simply reading some articles. Your trust is misplaced.

[KevLeitch]

I can't post a comment as long as I'd like to so I blogged your post David.

http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=981

[kellianndavis]

Pssst Everyone,

His piece entitled, "David Kirby vs Accuracy" has major errors within the first few paragraphs which I pointed out in his blog comment area (notice he doesn't even get Mark's last name correct):

"I’m sure that some members do want this. Lynn Redwood and Mark Baxhill to be precise. As the upcoming IACC account will show, I don’t think any other IACC workgroup members were interested."

Kev:

Right out of the gate and you've got it wrong! Whoever your note taker is I'd suggest you *fire them* since they aren't even providing you with the correct basic information!

For example, Mark Blaxill is *NOT A MEMBER* of the IACC -- you know, the meeting that took place on Tuesday and the one in which you are writing with such authority about -- and therefore doesn't have a direct say in what the IACC decides. He wasn't even present!!

You're getting the IACC mixed up with their *workgroup* which by the way, wasn't at the table making any decision on Tuesday! In fact, Peter Bell was the only *workgroup* member I recognized and he was sitting in the room -- *NOT AT THE TABLE* since he is not a member of the IACC!

Bottom Line: Might want to do some basic fact checking before you start trying to discredit another writer's story, no?

[AutismNewsBeat]

So did I:

http://tinyurl.com/5g7snr

[Grabaclue]

"I can't post a comment as long as I'd like to so I blogged your post David".

Oh my goodness, I just have to say... good try Kev attempting to start up a blog between you and David as the only two people allowed to post. Good job David for being too busy :) Seriously, David, don't fall for that trap. You are an honest person looking for answers... don't waste your time "debating" with Kev. We are looking for answers, Kev is not interested in finding answers. He doesn't even believe that there has been a real increase in autism over the past 20 years. When you can't even get together on that most basic point than a blog set up between the two of you to debate seems like it would be a real waste of valuable time. I figure that you may have figured that out for yourself but on the off chance that you may find yourself with some extra time and are considering actually doing this blog conversation with Kev... Please don't :)

[Olerist]

Great Job David

thanks again

Sorry about the sour grapes from someone else who's "parasite money" from the in-laws must be running out.