Unsatisfied, FISA Group Delivers Protest Letter to Obama Headquarters
Last week, Obama supporters created a "Get FISA Right" group using the Obama campaign's web-based social networking application. The group was an unusual addition to the website -- formed as it was by Obama supporters for the purpose of protesting Obama's position on the FISA bill recently passed by the House and currently under consideration by the Senate.
The group became the largest one on the Obama website within days, growing to more than 21,000 members in less than week. The Obama campaign, in response to this unprecedented online gathering, likewise did something unprecedented -- it posted a response to the group on the Obama blog. The campaign also made three policy staffers available to answer questions (live) in the blog comments section for nearly two hours.
Responding to the comment section dialogue, Will Mitchell, a representative of the FISA activist group, today hand delivered a formal letter to Obama campaign headquarters in Chicago. The group also published their statement on a handful of blogs Monday and Tuesday.
The response asked Obama both to reconsider his decision to vote for the FISA bill and to ask him to speak on the floor of Congress:
We ask that you back up your words with action by addressing your constituents on the floor of the Senate with the same oratorical power you used in Philadelphia to lay out your vision of a 'More Perfect Union.' The American people have just as much right to know of the dangerous precedent this Congress would be setting by granting retroactive immunity to those who "may have violated the law" and allowing spying on law-abiding citizens .... We ask you to reconsider your current position on the bill as a whole and strongly oppose a bill about which you said, "I know that the FISA bill that passed the House is far from perfect. I wouldn't have drafted the legislation like this, and it does not resolve all of the concerns that we have about President Bush's abuse of executive power."
In your statement you also wrote, "In a dangerous world, government must have the authority to collect the intelligence we need to protect the American people. But in a free society, that authority cannot be unlimited." We agree.
The statement also reminded Obama that they, as strong and fervent Obama supporters, are answering the very call to action that Obama asked them to answer:
We appreciate your willingness to continue the discussion. We represent a large and vocal part of the movement you have nurtured and that has nurtured you during this campaign season, and include many of your most active and ardent supporters. As you have said time and again Senator, "we are the ones we have been waiting for," and we are here, working to bring about real change in Washington. We have grown to over 20,000 strong in the space of just a few days.
The statement itself is an example of the online social networking phenomena that the Obama campaign has fostered. The statement was created on a wiki and edited by more than thirty members of the group. It was released only when consensus was reached among the members who volunteered to draft and edit the statement.
In just one week, the group has created the largest group on the Obama website, their own GetFISAright.com website, an online discussion forum, a FISA activist wiki, a very large Facebook group, and many other online projects. The group is also already organizing to continue fighting after the Senate vote on Wednesday, and the group has plans to organize all of their disparate online organizing tools into a coordinated campaign over the long term.
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i realize that this fisa bill has already passed, but i cannot believe the political turn around that obama has done since wrapping up the nomination. his big speeches have been about patriotism, faith, the wrongs of the black community, he has come out against limiting hand guns in crime ridden urban areas, "refined" his view on pulling troops out of iraq, backtracked of nafta.... sounds like a republican campaign a lot more to me than a "change" campaign. he has not given a single progressive speech, or released a single progressive plan. this is not a shift to the center, its a shift to the right. i was never an avid obama supporter, but i did support him over hillary. but now i honestly wonder if i was wrong in ever supporting him at all.
I don't think I have ever in my life seen a presidential candidate who alienated his own base as fast as Senator Obama has. Is he even capable of taking a firm position on anything???
Most people in that group do not understand FISA or care about it. They are Rush Limabaugh Chaos operators. Activists who really care about FISA would write to their own Senators to impact their vote. They used the situation to intimidate Obama supporters on the site and to attach negative labels to him. They created many short uninteresting posts which offered no insight into the issue.
There are exceptions to this rule, but you can easily check it for yourselves. Obama did today what he promised to do and did not change his mind. I trust entirely his choices. You will see it all made sense.
Obama's vote counts as ONE. Have you pestered your own senators to vote as you believe they should? Did you do you job?! Or you were wasting time to shame Obama on his site! So perhaps YOU are responsible for the outcome! Perhaps you yourself dumped your Constitution for the pleasure of insulting the Democratic candidate on his own site.
see:
HOW SEN. OBAMA DID VOTE IN THE SENATE TODAY ON FISA (5 VOTES) AND HOW MCCAIN DID NOT (SINCE HE WAS THE ONLY SENATOR ABSENT)
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/fib/gGxfN2
The FISA thing consists of several parts. Each required a separate vote. Obama did what he promised to do. He cast three votes against the immunity! McCain caved in BY ABSENTIA! Get your facts straight before you further attack Senator Obama.
When he announced his qualified support for the most recent FISA legislation on June 20, 2008, Senator Obama stated: "It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses." On June 20, 2008, Senator Obama changed his position on some of his prior statements regarding FISA legislation. On July 9, 2008, he changed his position on his statement that he would "work" to remove the provision that granted immunity to the telecommunication providers that assisted with the so-called Terrorist Surveillance Program. Although I still plan to vote for Senator Obama for President, because the alternative is so dismal, his performance in the Senate related to the FISA legislation was a poorly-choreographed charade. Based on his weak record as a Senator, the fact that he even showed up to vote was an improvement, but he obviously did as little as was possible for him to do with regard to his stated intentions on the votes related to the FISA legislation. Let us have the audacity to hope that he works harder when he becomes President.
Senator McCain did not bother to show for the Senate votes on the FISA legislation because he was busy trying to convince the public that his undeserved reputation as a maverick should be more noteworthy than his deserved reputation as a corrupt politician.
Look, people who oppose this FISA bill should continue to fight the fight. The battle will be lost today or tomorrow, but it doesn't mean that individuals can't continue to organize and fight this...I believe with an Obama administration, we can win the WAR against our Constitution, waged by this current administration.
But let's not overlook the positives here...because of this whole netroot campaign success of Obama and his staff, it is a lot EASIER to organize with folks who feel the same as you do. And isn't that part of what attracted a lot of us to his campaign in the first place? I mean, and maybe I'm being naive here, I think it is a good thing that I'm backing a candidate that I feel is going to at least LISTEN to me...regardless of the pressure we put on him, he could have easily not responded at all.
To ME, that says a lot. It means that we may finally have a candidate that the electorate can hold responsible.
Let's get the man elected, get him a larger majority, and take it to him on FISA. THAT is our best shot.
Protest by Obama supporters upset with his position on FISA is healthy. (Just as his VP should be permitted to give him unpleasant news and counsel when necessary, so should his supporters).
But healthy protest and outright rebellion are two different animals.
Obama's FISA decision was a close call - He opted to trade off the revenge factor (i.e. sticking it to the telecomms) in order to get meaningful and essential legislation passed. This had little to do with "selling out principles" or "tacking toward the center." He called it as he saw it.
There have been (and there will be) other close calls that will disappoint and frustrate Sen. Obama's supporters. The question they will have to ask themselves is: "Do these represent a pattern severe enough to warrant serious concern?"
Or do they merely reflect the kind of judgment calls any office holder is forced to make over time - and, with this in mind, is Sen. Obama essentially the same candidate we thought he was.
As far as I'm concerned, yeah, he's the same guy.
Obama's position is wrong. Plain and simple. I don't care if this is a 'flip flop' or not. I just don't personally care. What I do care about is that this bill is detrimental to the 4th amendment and ex post facto makes the telecoms illegal activity ok.
Its not about 'revenge', its about justice.
I expected more out of a Constitutional Law professor. Is it too much to ask for somebody just to take a stand on an issue because it is the right thing to do?
If his administration is going to be like the bush administrations, and just pretend the constitution doesn't exist when it isn't convienient, then why not just install King George and be done with it?
thank you - you are so right!!
I am erring on the side of caution here. Do not think that Sen. Obama is shredding the Constitution. He has a plan for all this and he is far wiser than anyone gives him credit for.
Justice, fairness, law, transparency of government. These are principles, not options that can be picked up or dropped when it's politically convenient. I expect nothing less from anyone seeking the presidency.
Well said.
*SNORT*
it is this kind of thinking that got us 8 years of the idiots destroying our country.
I will not vote for Obama any more because he is playing us for fools. He's charms everyone with his words of trust, and change. He is full of crap!! He is lying like every other politician.
He believes that we all foolish and stupid, and that we will believe anything if said the right way.
We had our chance to pick a real candidte, and once again we blew it. Now we have to live with this.
How about this, lets get our nominee elected first and then we can hold his feet to the fire about any issue you desire.
Remember my friends the alternative to Obama is McCain, Barr or Nader so make your choice.
We can go on with this vetting and second guessing of our nominee until November or we can standby our decision to make Obama our nominee and do everything we can to ensure he gets into the white house thru the front door. Or we can just try to tweak him to death and settle for someone else.
I am sure we can find something to complain about McCain and the others running against Obama so why not try finding fault with the opposition instead of attempting to fine tune our candidate before he gets a chance to serve.
I'll jump in...
Because this issue is a dealbreaker for at least a few people (me included). We're just finishing up 8 years of an administration that has actively and willfully tried to destroy the protections of the constitution. I personally believe in that document and the freedoms it protects more than I believe in any one person or party. As such, I will vote for a candidate who does not support the current FISA bill and many of the other unconstitutional power grabs of the bush administration and congress.
Right now, I guess thats Bob Barr.
I can deal with some ideas that I don't like, I can deal with policy I don't agree with. But I cannot stand by and watch the constitution get shredded for the 'convienience' of the government.
get a grip. all this overheated talk about the Constitution being shredded.
Please, you dont even know what the4th Amendment says.
sorry, but it has never been a pure idea, it has always been an evolving idea about exactly when and how much judicial oversight is needed.
Look at the border searches,no judicial oversight needed.
the extremes on the left are as bad as the extremes on the right.
EEnie, meenie, miney, mo
Guess I'll pick barr.
While I too am torn between civil liberties and having a system in place that just may catch planning in the works between those who would do harm to our country and possible contacts within our country that might be able to carry that out ~ I am reminded that when handed a dossier entitled Osama Bin Laden set to attack within the United States....the current powers that be decided the best of our intelligence was not an imminent warning; just "a history lesson" as Ms. Rice put it.
That being the caliber of the current administration, and the fact that it is highly unlikely a Bin Laden would expend the cost of another box of linoleum cutters on a country so extra-ordinarily capable of self-destruction ~ I woke up this morning thinking Obama should drop everything, hop a plane to Washington, and help defeat this FISA bill even the most sincere and learn-ed folks disagree on.
Let it languish until after January 20th. I am more concerned this on top of the righteous fury over Pelosi's taking impeachment off the table, wisely in a time of "war" or not; is simply more than the good people of our country can bear.
Apathy is setting in as I will be watching very closely each step of this process.
Anarchy will follow real soon.
I agree with Larry, i dont really trust him to do what he says. His nuanced answers are really flips and dishonesty. The man who has known him the longest Rev. Wright gave us a clue about his character when he said that Obama is a politician who will say what politicians say. His flip on fisa made me change my view of him. I will vote for him but I wont send any more money or go door to door for him. It comes down to trust, i dont trust Obama to do the right thing but i know McCain wont, so I will vote for Obama but I dont think he is going to win. This middle of the road strategy is a losing one but he will have to learn this in November.
I would challenge the figure claimed as the number of dissenters on the FISA issue. From what many of us supporters have noted, many of these outraged "supporters" do not have profiles and appear to be Republican trolls infesting the site to inflate the numbers and make negative headlines for our campaign. Obama supporters know from his books and website that he is a pragmatist and that his positions are long-held and consistent. The current FISA bill is the best that can be had at this point in time. Electing Obama and picking up some Senate and House seats will ensure future revisions to the various Acts related to intelligence gathering and preserving citizen civil rights. Obama is just one of 100 senators and he has to make a decision as a Senator on the current version of the Bill. Real supporters understand this and support him. How can anyone argue with someone who has arrived where he is as our candidate after the brutal primary? Obama did an amazing job of running his campaign and winning the nomination. My hat is off to him. Obama '08
It will be very interesting to see if Hillary Clinton stands on principle or votes with Obama for this fascist bill. If Clinton votes against, and Obama votes for, I think the Democratic party should seriously consider nominating her for the candidate.
Let me keep you from holding your breath. Hillary Clinton feels the same way as the other senators voting for this bill.
She lost, conceded and endorsed him. He won. So if you're a Democrat, and serious about winning this election, give it a rest, stick with Barack and let him pick his own battles.
The current FISA bill does not rule out CRIMINAL prosecution of the telecoms. What more is needed? America will better off with a bad FISA bill and Barack Obama in the White House than with the best possible FISA bill and the open-ended, costly and counterproductive war in Iraq that McCain wants--and Sen. Clinton supported.
Oh, and if you're a Republican, trying to play divide and conquer? Nice try.
FISA give civil immunity, cases cease. Bush exits office and gives criminal immunity. Telecoms get off scot free. No one, no president, no leader, no man, no woman is worth shredding the constitution for. The founds felt strong enough about this issue to put it in writing in the Bill of Rights. I'll side with them on the issue.
why do I feel all these FISA folks only see Black/White, good/bad... mmm sound like Perfectionist to me... more of the same. Hilary/McCain...
Life isn't a cookie cutter folks.... there are grays that must be shone also.... wake up before we continue to do what we did in 00/2004... again, the American people are too smart for their own good, and we'll will our freedom right out of us for the good of being right.... good for you.
because they do only see black and white, and its only form their perspective. the idea that reasonable intelligent people can disagree with them, and not want to shred the constitution is something they cannot comprehend.
which means if it isnt FISA, they will find some other issue to be angry about. they will spend the next 4 years being angry regardless of who is President. They dont know how to do anything else. They equate anger with moral outrage.
Its a big country, people disgaree.
I closed my Obama account last week.
This two party system offers only dilemmas. If we keep settling for less than what we really want and believe needs to happen we will continue to get exactly what we deserve, recycled ideas sold as change and further erosion of our civil and constitutional rights.
You must fight for your rights everyday or they will disappear.
If you want real change vote with your feet. Post your comments else where other that the Obama site and by God vote your conscious.
Obama is playing to not loose instead of playing to win, not a good idea when up against people who are supporting and defending the constitution, i.e. voters!
Stick with Barack! Doing anything else would help to put McCain in the White House, where he can--and he will--undermine our rights and work against the best interests of average Americans. Even with a bad FISA bill, America would become a freer and less dangerous place to live under the Democrats. And keep in mind that the current FISA bill does not rule our CRIMINAL prosecution of the telecoms. Let's support the best available candidate--and let him pick his own battles.
For the record: you meant "elsewhere" not "else where", "conscience" not "conscious", "lose" not "loose" and "the Constitution" not "the constitution".
Right. Whatever.
I agree its important. I agree. I'm disappointed. But for me its not a deal breaker.
If it is for you, then...well, it is.
I appreciate your steadfastness, really I do. And I respect your position and passion.
The party and rest of us supporters who are disappointed are nevertheless moving on to work very hard (with or without you) to elect the only candidate who finds fault with the bill, has pledged to fix it and who stands a snowballs chance in hell of winning in November. That would be Obama.
I appreciate your efforts. Really. I do. I "get it". I really do. But the numbers of people who know about FISA or have the capacity to understand its complexity are very few (21,000? 50,000? 150,000?) The rest of the electorate I am meeting while working hard in my own community are concerned about jobs, and health care and Iraq among other things. But they don't register FISA. Its NOT on the map for them. Which isn't to say its not important. It is. I get that.
But its not a deal breaker for me. Its not a deal breaker for enough people. Sorry. Wishing for a Nader-esque outcome in 2008 borders on psychotic.
So those of us mature enough to process disappointment (even anger) and still remain rational will continue to work hard in real communities across America to get Obama elected.
And when he is, you'll thank us for it.
Your attempt to trivialize this issue is noted.
However, you are, like the Obama campaign itself, seriously underestimating the size and anger of the coalition that's building in response to this. You are seriously underestimating how cutting the legs out from under the progressive grassroots is harming Obama's chances in this election. And you are seriously underestimating the results of losing even just 20000 (assuming that's all) of Obama's *most vehement, and vocal supporters* (who are also most likely to be some of his biggest repeat donors, like me).
We want Obama elected, too. But only if he's going to keep his word. Only if he's going to be the man he's claimed to be through this entire nomination process. This isn't just a single issue. This isn't just the "fringe." This is a core, growing group of activists beginning to get whiplash and wonder what ELSE Obama will "nuance," renege, or flat out lie about. If he'll cave on this, what's next? Iraq? Health care reform? Mortgage crisis?
Because if Obama's not, actually, the man he's been claiming to be... why on earth should we vote for him? If he's not that guy, he's just a bunch of pretty speeches and little else.
Not to mention, underestimating the intelligence of the America people. They may not understand the details, but they know when a politician is capitulating and that wins no one any votes.
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