More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Dean Baker

GET UPDATES FROM Dean Baker
 

Economic Conflicts With China and Class War in the United States

Posted: 12/12/11 03:04 PM ET

The Commerce Department's release of trade figures last week showed another large deficit with China for October, albeit slightly lower than the record hit the previous month. This figure will renew the calls for stronger action against China.

Unfortunately the debate over China is often buried in confusion, leading to a situation that is not conducive to effective action. A major reason for this confusion is that there is not a common U.S. interest against China. The interests of the 99 percent differ greatly from the interests of the 1 percent. Until this fact is recognized more generally, there is no possibility that our economic relations with China will change in a way that benefits the vast majority of working people in the United States.

The central issue with China is the fact that the dollar is over-valued against the Chinese currency. This over-valuation is the result of the explicit Chinese policy of pegging its currency against the dollar.

The peg is often referred to as "manipulation," but it doesn't really fit the bill for two reasons. First, it is an official policy. China targets the value of its currency quite openly; it is not doing it in the middle of the night when no one is looking.

The second reason is that China's mechanism for targeting the value of its currency is something that on alternate days our Treasury actually requests. They buy up U.S. government debt.

If this seems absurd, it should because it is. The way in which China keeps its currency down against the dollar (or keeps the dollar up against its currency) is by buying huge amounts of U.S. government bonds.

The media often tells us that we need China to buy our debt. This is not true. There are plenty of other potential investors, including the Federal Reserve Board. However we cannot both want China to buy U.S. government debt and then complain about China's currency manipulation. This is how they "manipulate" their currency.

But the currency issue is only one of many complaints that routinely appear in the list of grievances against China. The longer list includes complaints that China doesn't respect the patents and copyrights of companies like Pfizer and Disney, they don't grant full access to financial giants like Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs, and they put up barriers to retail chains like Wal-Mart who want to open up stores across China. These sorts of items are often lumped together with the undervaluation of the Chinese yuan to make a sort of economic indictment against the Chinese government.

One can argue the merits of each of these issues, but that doesn't have anything to do with the real world. There is no court where we are going to prosecute China for its economic wrongdoing. China is a huge powerful country. Its GDP is nearly 80 percent of U.S. GDP. By comparison, at its peak the GDP of the Soviet Union may have been half as large as the GDP of the United States.

We are not ever going to be in a situation to dictate to China what it can and cannot do. We are going to have to negotiate with them as the equal that they are. This means that in order to get some concessions from China's government on issues that we care about we will have to give up on other issues.

From this standpoint, the interests of those yelling about China's "pirating" of Pfizer and Disney's intellectual property are 180 degrees at odds with those concerned about the undervaluation of the yuan. If China gives up some ground in agreeing to stronger enforcement of U.S. patents and copyrights, then it is going to give up less ground in agreeing to raise the value of its currency. Similarly, if China agrees to give Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs more access to its financial sector, it will be at the cost of progress on revaluing its currency.

The point is that in pushing various demands in its negotiations with China, the Obama administration will be favoring certain interests to the detriment of others. The bulk of the working population has a clear interest in having a lower valued dollar.

If the dollar falls by 20 percent relative to the yuan, this would have roughly the same impact as imposing a 20 percent tariff on importing Chinese goods and giving out a 20 percent subsidy on exports to subsidy. Since the dollar is likely to fall against other currencies as well, this could go far toward bringing down the trade deficit, creating millions of relatively high-paying manufacturing jobs.

By contrast, Pfizer and Disney will see higher profits if China's increases enforcement of their patents and copyrights, but this will provide little benefit to workers in the United States. Similarly, Goldman Sach's increased access to China's financial markets is not going to create jobs for workers in the United States.

In short, there is a very clear class divide in U.S. negotiations with China. The 1 percent have their laundry list of special concerns that will make them even richer. The 99 percent care about a lower-valued currency to create millions of manufacturing jobs. We will see which side the Obama administration is on.

 

Follow Dean Baker on Twitter: www.twitter.com/DeanBaker13

 
 
  • Comments
  • 154
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4  Next ›  Last »  (4 total)
10:03 PM on 12/14/2011
Honestly, I see no way for the US to win in terms of trade with China. Even when I pretend to think in American interests, I can find no solution. The bottom line is that China will have cheaper manufacturing for decades to come, if not longer. Your service sector won't make up for the discrepancy, nor your tech sectors. If the US was a smaller country that required less manufacturing you might be able to win a surplus like Korea/Japan does, but you're not. Yes, China and its government has national interest at heart. It will not float its currency. It WILL favor domestic enterprises. There's nothing anyone on the outside can do about it. No, you don't have the political impetus to initiate serious tariffs or start any kind of trade war with the world's largest manufacturer and consumer market.

So, too bad, live with it.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Charles Queen
I am a disabled nam vet
08:07 PM on 12/14/2011
If china wants to raise tarrifs then we need to respond by doing the exact same thing to them only on a larger scale right off the bat and not a little here and there.Thats how to get their attention.If their going to try to help Irans nuclear program which they themselves said that Iran cannot be allowed to have nuclear wepons then they need to quit giving them help via north korea
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
windwolf
10:29 PM on 12/13/2011
The 99% of us will never have any say so, or leverage negotiating with China, as long as upwards of 90% of what we buy is manufactured there. Until we reclaim most of our lost manufacturing, the situation will remain statically grim for us. It's always been an illusion that the service sector will take up the job creation slack. The most this sector can now produce are underpaid positions. When the "bubble" was at its overinflated size, and joblessness was at a low point,abundant service sector jobs were created to support the financial house of cards destined to burst the bubble. Jobs in the overinflated real estate, mortgage, banking, real estate, financial services industries in general, as well as the construction and building products and services sectors rapidly disappeared with the bubble burst. Job stimulus as a result of increasing consumer spending by itself is history. Without job stimulus, people will not spend, especially those unemployed, and even those of us who are employed, living in constant fear of losing our jobs. The economy remains stagnated without investment in stimulating job creation. We must reclaim most of the 50% of employment in the manufacturing sector that we once enjoyed, reduced now to a mere 10%, before we'll see a lasting recovery.
09:51 PM on 12/13/2011
Who sets the rate of currency? Why don't we go back to the good old Gold Standard ? We have lost our manufacturing base in USA because of these unfair free trade agreements Congress should pass laws to favor local producers and encourage domestic manufacturing.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
windwolf
11:47 PM on 12/13/2011
The gold standard made sense when there was an adequate supply of gold in the world to back paper currency. Today there's not enough gold to support our many times the population and the untold trillions of dollars circulating global. We're a global economy. A recent National Geographic issue devoted to gold, revealed that since gold was first mined, the total amount collected world wide through out history would only fill two Olympic size swimming pools. Certainly not enough to back the global currency let alone ours. Libertarian polices simply are too archaic to work efficiently in this modern age. Even our constitution, at least parts of it are outdated and need to be rewritten to accommodate the 99% of us. You know, that for the people, by the people, of the people, thing - not just the 1%
09:51 PM on 12/13/2011
The idea that the trade deficit is causing loss of jobs in our manufacturing sector is something that needs to be talked about more often.
06:57 PM on 12/13/2011
Time for the US to stop making wars all over the world, close down all military bases all over the world, and start spending the money rebuilding America.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheTightwireGuy
Attempting to balance reason and passion
05:57 PM on 12/13/2011
While I agree with Dr. Baker's description of the political forces and trade-offs on this matter, I respectively disagree with this relatively cavalier statement regarding the availability of alternate creditors for the US government:

"There are plenty of other potential investors, including the Federal Reserve Board."

Excluding the Chinese government from participating in this debt market will
(a) immediately drive up baseline interest rates, and
(b) immediately drive up other government's budget deficit.

But because such a measure does not exclude China from participating in other areas of the US capital market, China could still effectively peg its currency to the US dollar by shifting its flow of dollars into these other areas of that market. Such a response would result in:

1) a decrease in US bond default premiums (the yield spreads between Treasury and 'risky' bonds)
2) a decrease in the equity risk premium (the difference in the implied discount rates for equity versus Treasury securities),
3) increased influence by the Chinese government in the event of municipal bond defaults,
4) increased ownership and control of US firms, and

And this is the problem:

5) no appreciable change in the US-China foreign exchange rate to spur the much desired renaissance in the US manufacturing sector that Dr. Baker predicts.

Please! Someone! Correct me if I am wrong! Because I, and the many millions of un- and underemplyment US citizens would LOVE it if the solution to the US' "China problem" were that simple.
01:28 PM on 12/13/2011
Since the U.S. is unable to handle its own financial affairs by ballancing its budget with austerity it appears like Europe it creditors will make it do so. That means China needs to say get your house in order or we are not going to subsidize you anymore by buying your treasuries. This is already occuring as China is buying assets with their U.S. $ holdings unloading their treasury holldings.
Our banks having been doing the opposite. they are selling assets(like commecial real estate ) at 50% discounts and pilling up U.S. treasuries which I consider junk bonds. I think China is going to be the winer in swaping junk for hard assets that like commodities and real estate if they can unload fast enough before the U.S. dollar collapes.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ralph Gardner
10:37 PM on 12/13/2011
The Fed can always by the Treasuries in the current system.
12:55 PM on 12/13/2011
Qualifiers to above scenarion.

1. Many minor currencies are tied to the dollar.
2. Euro wants to dive but weak dollar will not permit it. Dollar weakens - so does Euro. So no advantage vis-a-vis Euroland.
11:29 AM on 12/13/2011
Well, if we say China is unfairly devaluing its currency, than we have to ask why the Fed is doing the same by dumping trillions of dollars in the market. Both countries are playing the same game, and despite the noise they are happy with it.
There are other issues that can solve the problem, but which are almost never mentioned.As Indy Skeptic commented below, tariffs would fix the problem of trade imbalances. After all it is legitimate when considering that China and others have almost no workers rights and no environmental regulations.
IMO there is no real disagreement on China in Washington, other than political theater to divert attention from the real issue: Unfair Free Trade Agreements, which are good only for a tiny number of global "citizens", but a fatal blow to American labor's livelihood.
01:03 PM on 12/13/2011
The whole free trade debate should be reopened. But no-one will do it. Too scared it will lead to trade wars.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ralph Gardner
10:40 PM on 12/13/2011
Tariffs are against WTO agreements. We could impost a value added tax of 20% on imports like our trading partners impose on us.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Charles Queen
I am a disabled nam vet
10:56 AM on 12/13/2011
Yep,only a certain few in China have the money,the rest slave away for penneys.They have an excellent excecution rate I noyiced,estimated 4,000 people are exceuted a year in china.They take capital punishment seriously
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ralph Gardner
10:44 PM on 12/13/2011
Two-thirds are middle-class china's main goal is to bring the remaining third up to middle-class, they are mainly self-sufficient farmers. The have a different system with lots of mass-transport and apartments. Their prices are also much cheaper, like a haircut costs $1.
farleft1917
Nothing is new but only forgotten.
10:26 AM on 12/13/2011
Obama's mouth will be for the 99% and his actions (and Michelle's holiday plans) will be with the top 1% of the 1%.

There is going to be a global revolt from China to Europe to America against the top 1% and it will make concerns over currency and Euro debt look like the good old days.

Essentially we, the 99%, are sick to death of Davos loving pundits, greedy politicians and corrupt Oligarchs taking it all, down to stealing our children's dreams.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sposton
right to tell what they don't want to hear
10:41 AM on 12/13/2011
"...and his actions (and Michelle's holiday plans) will be with the top 1% of the 1%."

Precisely correct.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sposton
right to tell what they don't want to hear
10:06 AM on 12/13/2011
"The central issue with China is the fact that the dollar is over-valued against the Chinese currency."

It appears that is the case but is it? Does this mean that if China appreciates its currency all would be OK? No it would not. If I remember correctly about 60% of trade deficit is due to American giant cross national corporations. If Chinese currency appreciates those corporations aren't going to bring those jobs back to the US. They will move them to Vietnam and other low cost countries. China will then move into manufacturing of higher value added products. This is exactly what happened in Japan (we still have a trade deficit with Japan). And so as you can see adjustment of China's currency will not fix our problem because our problem is not so much with China as it is with American giant corporations whose interests have long ago diverged from the interests of American people. Just remember that US government is owned by these same corporations and their owning classes. Should we be surprised by results? And what do we propose to do to bring about meaningful change?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ralph Gardner
10:47 PM on 12/13/2011
No other country has the manpower and infrastructure to replace China. Maybe 300 million of its citizens producing exports.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sposton
right to tell what they don't want to hear
09:54 AM on 12/14/2011
Not all those people would lose their jobs, just the most vulnerable to exchange rates. There is plenty of available labor in India, Vietnam, Burma (Empire is making overtures to it), etc. Chinese would move into higher value added jobs which might even increase the trade deficits. This is exactly what happened in Japan when their currency appreciated. We still have a huge trade deficit with Japan.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jeff Forsythe
09:35 AM on 12/13/2011
It seems that honest people everywhere are finally asking themselves the same question, how can China make so many items and sell them for so little . The answer is slavery !
The brutal Chinese Communist Party has thousands of slave camps all over China, well hidden from public view, where innocent political and religious prisoners are forced to work for nothing except a bowl of rice.
Westerners then buy these items for next to nothing and complain about their quality. Ask yourselves this question also, if you were forced to make garbage toys and cell phones and millions of other silly items, would you put your heart into the quality of your work, of course not.
The Western Governments that deal with the cruel Chinese Communist Party are fully aware of the atrocities and lack of human rights in Communist China but look the other way because of corporate greed.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mhh310351
Roosevelt Democrat
11:20 AM on 12/13/2011
Could be cheap dirty coal energy!

It cost them about $0.02/kwh for electricity. Compare that with industrial (not residential) electric rates of California $0.14+/kwh!

China only burnt 49% of all the coal consumed on the planet last year!

I think that is why not 1 but 3 highly automated (low labor cost) energy intensive American Solar Cell manufactures closed last summer.

Seems trade with China is the new engine driving man-made climate change.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
04:23 PM on 12/13/2011
Not true, Jeff. I have manufactured items in China and have seen the workers, the conditions and the quality. There are no slave camps supplying the factories with labor. The workers are paid a wage that allows them to live without the need of government aid and they are very proud of the work they do. Most of them live in the countryside and go home for a three week New Year holiday every year, not to secret slave labor camps run by the government. Granted, they do work for far less than the hourly wage in the U.S. but the cost of living in the U.S. is far, far higher than in China. Maybe we should unilaterally require China to pay their workers the same as they would get in the U.S. when they make goods for sale in the U.S. (they can keep paying them the lower wage if the goods are bound for someplace else). This way we can triple the retail cost of everything, dramatically lower the standard of living of a majority of Americans who will no longer be able to afford 2/3 of the things they buy now and bring the retail sector to a standstill while making Chinese workers rich. And I nominate you to decide which of the millions of items made overseas and sold in America are "silly" and should be banned.
ThatsTheTheWayItIs
religion, ideology, partisanship are delusional
09:32 AM on 12/13/2011
In the early 1900s workers wanted free trade, gave them cheaper goods to buy. Corporations wanted protectionism, a monopoly over goods sold in the US. __ The Big Three made expensive, lousy cars until they had competition from Germany and Japan, our former scapegoat. Oil imports are a bigger cause of trade deficit than China.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mhh310351
Roosevelt Democrat
11:26 AM on 12/13/2011
ThatsTheTheWayitis needs to read some history.

Protectionism from the 1820's to the 1990's made this the economic power it is! Even with the U.S. importing over 50% of it's oil needs the U.S. deficit was only about $31 billion in 1991!

This year the trade deficit will be almost $300 billion to China alone!