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Dennis A. Henigan

Dennis A. Henigan

Posted: August 12, 2010 02:53 PM

When an NRA safety instructor accidentally shoots a student in one of his classes, is it a teachable moment about guns in America?

I am referring to an incident reported in the Orlando Sentinel in which a person attending a National Rifle Association class for applicants for concealed carry licenses was shot when his instructor's gun accidentally discharged during the class. The bullet penetrated a table before hitting the victim, who fortunately recovered from his wound.

I think it's safe to say that the NRA instructor in this case is unlikely to appear in future "I'm the NRA" promotional ads.

Here we have an individual, who the NRA itself has decided is such an expert in safe gun handling that he can teach a class in it, nevertheless accidentally discharging his weapon in a public place and wounding an innocent person. If this can happen to the instructor, what can we expect from his students, who presumably will be carrying their concealed guns on the streets?

This is hardly the first time that a highly trained gun user has accidentally shot someone. In fact the Sentinel article referred to another incident in Orlando a few years ago, in which a DEA agent shot himself in the thigh with a .40 caliber Glock pistol while talking to schoolchildren about the importance of staying away from guns. This bizarre shooting actually was captured on video. The image of all those kids in that room is chilling.

What lessons can be learned from these two disturbing incidents?

First, because of the nature of guns, accidental shootings remain a constant threat. Yes, individuals can be trained to be extremely careful around guns and most gun owners no doubt regard themselves as very safety conscious. But human beings are prone to mistakes - they can be clumsy, or distracted, or rushed, for example - and guns are sufficiently complicated mechanisms that even the slightest mistake can result in tragedy.

This is not true of other widely available products used as weapons. As the late columnist and humorist Molly Ivins once observed, "People are seldom killed while cleaning their knives." In fact, the great paradox of gun design is that guns are complicated enough to invite accidents by adults, yet simple enough to be fired by a child.

The NRA is fond of pointing to data suggesting that the rate of accidental shootings has been declining, but this is largely due to the decline in hunting, as well as the falling percentage of American households with guns, from 54% in 1977 to 33% in 2009. Even so, between 1965 and 2006, over 64,000 Americans died in unintentional shootings, more Americans than were killed in battle during those decades. For every person killed in such shootings, about thirteen are seriously wounded. The collection of accidental shootings found here makes a sobering statement.

The constant risk of an accidental shooting is not confined to the gun owner, those in his household, and those who may visit his household. Given the campaign of the "gun rights" ideologues to make it easier to carry guns in public, it is increasingly a threat to all of us. Most states that have made it easier to carry concealed weapons have no serious safety training requirements (and some states, like Arizona, have no requirement of even a license to carry a concealed weapon).

And now we have the spectacle of gun extremists carrying their handguns openly in places like Starbucks. In most states, there is no license or safety training requirement of any kind to engage in such "open carry". Apart from the growing evidence that we are allowing very dangerous people to legally carry guns in public (at least 173 homicides by concealed carry license holders since May, 2007, including 16 mass shootings), there is the less visible, but more constant threat of tragedy from a law-abiding, well-intentioned gun owner who may simply make a mistake with a gun on the street, in a coffee shop or in a public park.

When it comes to cars, we tolerate the risk of accidents because we regard automobile transportation as essential to our daily lives (though, unlike guns, we have extensive safety regulations on cars and drivers to reduce the risk of death and injury). We are told that we must similarly tolerate the risk of gun accidents because of the overriding protective benefit of guns in enabling self-defense against criminal attack.

But as to guns in the home, we know that for every time they are used in a self-defense shooting, there are four unintentional shootings (as well as seven criminal assaults and eleven attempted or completed suicides). For those who carry guns in public, the benefits are demonstrably not worth the risk. A recent study shows that individuals in actual possession of a gun are over four times more likely to be shot in an assault than persons not in possession of a gun. The research also reveals no evidence that making it easier for people to carry concealed guns reduces crime; indeed, its effect has been to increase aggravated assault.

So, yes, the accidental shooting by the NRA safety instructor provides a teachable moment. It teaches us this: the gun in the home, or in a public place, owned and carried even by a law-abiding and well-trained adult, presents a persistent risk of death and injury to the innocent. That risk is far greater than the often-claimed protective benefits of guns.

For more information, see Dennis Henigan's Lethal Logic: Exploding the Myths that Paralyze American Gun Policy (Potomac Books 2009)




 
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
johnny g locker
04:44 PM on 08/28/2010
His conclusion that the risks outweigh the benefits is just his opinion. And silly little one at that.

Guns are dangerous. They kill. That is why they are valuable for defense against tyranny. He needs to read his history. America does not happen without guns.
04:36 AM on 09/02/2010
Guns are useless against tyranny. America without guns would be a safer place. If Gandhi used force against the British they would have never left. Tyranny is backed up by superior force, home arms would be a joke against trained soldiers.
09:14 PM on 08/19/2010
Let's play skippy's game. Let's assume that Heller and McDonald never happened and firearms are only for those who are members in a militia. Of course that would only apply to federal, not state.

Federal Law:

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311
Prev | Next
§ 311. Militia: composition and classes
How Current is This?
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Just one of the many state constitutions:
Illinois State Constitution, Article 12.
SECTION 1. MEMBERSHIP
The State militia consists of all able-bodied persons
residing in the State except those exempted by law.

So women have a nice discrimination lawsuit against the federal gov't.
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09:37 AM on 08/20/2010
"Women" will somehow find a way to express their gratitude at your championing their right to join the disorganized militia. That would, indeed, fill a void in their lives that they didn't know existed.
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02:57 PM on 08/20/2010
"Women" will somehow find a way to express their gratitude at your championing their right to join the disorganized militia."

Oh, but read again, wiseguy.

You, yes you, are IN the militia, automatically, because you (presumably) are a male. Veghead, yes, but still a 'male', no matter how loose the interpretation.

This is not your "right". You are in it.

Women have not been drafted thus.
11:13 PM on 08/22/2010
The 2nd specifies a "well regulated militia", not any bozo like the Craigslist Killer using a false ID to acquire a gun and cause mayhem. If Title 10 defines membership it doesn't account for the well regulated requirement of the 2nd.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
11:40 PM on 08/22/2010
THAT'S your argument?

As OE said: "Well regulated is not a requirement, it is a descriptive ideal. And it does not levy a pre-condition for the possession of arms. "

Are you having reading difficulties tonight?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
08:14 PM on 08/19/2010
"A properly functioning engine being necessary to optimal gas mileage of a vehicle, the right of the people to own and use tools shall not be infringed. "

According to some, this sentence would mean that only engines can keep and use tools.

Others make the case that it would mean engines cannot be infringed.

Still others make an argument which means vehicles can keep and use engines.

And then there are those whose stance would mean that only vehicles can keep and use tools.

Additionally, there are those who would have us believe that people can only own and use tools if they are an engine, or are working on an engine.

All of the arguments by these people are quite incorrect.

As explained previously, the absolute phrase "A properly functioning engine being necessary to optimal gas mileage of a vehicle" does not create the right, nor does it limit or modify the right. The right exists. The absolute phrase acts adverbially and in a non-restrictive manner to give background information regarding the action of the sentence -- in this case the prohibition against infringement.

There are obviously many reasons why people would own and use tools other than working on engines or for increasing gas mileage. And there are obviously many reasons besides the upkeep of an engine or optimal mileage why the right to own and use tools would be protected.
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09:02 PM on 08/19/2010
A thousand pardons for intruding upon your train of thought, Master, but have you any wisdom to impart on the subject of tire rotation?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
09:06 PM on 08/19/2010
If they do not rotate, they are defective.
01:17 AM on 08/20/2010
Wow, the founding fathers were concerned with gas mileage?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
09:31 PM on 08/20/2010
Deliberate obtuseness on your part.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
04:19 PM on 08/19/2010
Baron has been a legal expert witness, interpreting the language of contracts and advertising materials and offering opinions on the readability of documents. Baron was lead author, together with colleagues Richard W. Bailey and Jeffrey Kaplan, of "the Linguists' Brief," an amicus brief in District of Columbia v. Heller before the U.S. Supreme Court, providing an interpretation of the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (the "right to bear arms" amendment) based on the grammars, dictionaries, and general usage common in the founders' day, and showing that those meanings are still common today. The brief was mentioned POSITIVELY in the dissenting opinion of Justice Stevens and NEGATIVELY in Justice Scalia's majority opinion deciding the case.

Don't you think a grammarian has to have a historical basis for interpretation....just asking....

beagle....any interpretation of bearing arms deals with warfare, not CCW in Starbucks, so spin away....
whether it be Wills, Baron, or whomever.....

How about the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
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04:51 PM on 08/19/2010
enlightened45 wrote: "The brief was mentioned POSITIVELY in the dissenting opinion of Justice Stevens and NEGATIVELY in Justice Scalia's majority opinion deciding the case."
From Justice Scalia's majority opinion in Heller:

"The Amendment could be rephrased, “Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to
the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.” See J. Tiffany, A Treatise on Government and Constitutional Law §585, p. 394 (1867); Brief for Professors of Linguistics and English as Amici Curiae 3 (hereinafter Linguists’ Brief)." Id at pg 3, slip opinion.

Further in the majority opinion:

"The phrase “bear Arms” also had at the time of the founding an idiomatic meaning that was significantly different from its natural meaning: “to serve as a soldier, do military service, fight” or “to wage war.” See Linguists’ Brief 18; post, at 11". Id at slip opinion page 12.

"Every example given by petitioners’ amici for the idiomatic meaning of “bear arms”from the founding period either includes the preposition “against” or is not clearly idiomatic. See Linguists’ Brief
18–23." Id at slip opinion page 13.

enlightened45 wrote: "any interpretation of bearing arms deals with warfare, not CCW in Starbucks, so spin away...."

So you disagree with Baron who specifically pointed out various instances where the term "bear arms" was not so employed?

Query for enlightened45: Do you enjoy being proved wrong?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
06:05 PM on 08/19/2010
Query for enlightened45: Do you enjoy being proved wrong?

I don't know...when you prove me wrong, let me know....my statement in the first paragraph is correct....check it out....otherwise your legalese smog is beginning to give me a headache!
06:07 PM on 08/19/2010
No, he is not wrong. Arms are for a Well Regulated Militia, not for personal pleasure
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
02:08 PM on 08/19/2010
DIVISIVE ISSUE

Former top U.S. Justice Department officials including former Attorney General Janet Reno, law professors, linguistic experts and historians all argued the Second Amendment protects the right of people only to keep arms for militia service.

On the other side, the Bush administration, the powerful National Rifle Association, a majority of the U.S. Senate and a majority of the House of Representatives argued an individual has the right to possess arms.

I know which side I am on.......this was just before the Heller case.......wonder how that "venerable" SCROTUS majority made their decision?
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02:30 PM on 08/19/2010
Persons or entities who filed briefs in support of Heller:

• Thirty One (31) States of the Union
• 55 Senators, 250 Members of Congress
•Goldwater Institute
•Edwin Meese, et al. (Former Dept. of Justice Officials)
•Claremont Institute/Criminologists
•Int’l Law Enforcement Trainers & Educators, et al.
•National Rifle Association
•Cato Institute
•Retired Military Officers
•Second Amendment Foundation
•Academics for the Second Amendment
•Academics
•Foreign Academics
•Institute for Justice
•Citizens Committee
•Maricopa County Attorney’s Office, et al. [Prosecutors]
•Center for Individual Freedom
•Joseph Scaranti, President Pro Tem Pa. Senate
•Southeastern Legal Foundation
•National Shooting Sports Foundation
•Heartland Institute,
•Buckeye Firearms Foundation, et al.
•American Legislative Exchange Counsel
•State Firearms Associations
•American Association of Physicians and Surgeons
•Pink Pistols
•Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
•Women State Legislators and Academics
•GeorgiaCarry.org
•Congress of Racial Equality
•Disabled Veterans for Self-Defense, et al.
•Alaska Outdoor Council, et al.
•Libertarian National Committee
•Paragon Foundation
•American Center for Law & Justice
•Grass Roots South Carolina
•Liberty Legal Institute
•Eagle Forum
•Gun Owners of America
•American Civil Rights Union
•Rutherford Institute
•Jeanette Moll/Bill of Rts Foundation
•Mountain States Legal Foundation
•Foundation for Free Expression
•Virginia 1774
•Foundation for Moral Law
•AHSA

Continued.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
04:27 PM on 08/19/2010
Give me some time to register for membership in the "Pink Pistols"......
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02:32 PM on 08/19/2010
Continued

Briefs filed in support of DC:

•Janet Reno, et al.
•National Network to End Domestic Violence
•American Jewish Committee, et al.
•States of NY, HI, MA, MD, NJ and PR
•American Bar Ass’n
•Brady Center
•U.S. Department of Justice
•18 Members of Congress
•NAACP Legal Defense Fund
•Criminal Justice Professors
•DA’s for SF, NY
•American Academy of Pediatrics
•City of Chicago
•Winkler, Chemerinsky
•American Public Health Ass’n
•Appleseed Center, et al.
•Violence Policy Center
•Cities
•History Professors
•Linguistics Professors
07:35 AM on 08/19/2010
"The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner."

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms
REPORT of the SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION
of the UNITED STATES SENATE

NINETY-SEVENTH CONGRESS
Second Session

February 1982
03:06 PM on 08/19/2010
The only thing that is clear to me is the arms are for a "Well regulated militia" any other interpretation is wishful thinking.
08:35 PM on 08/19/2010
if your definition of 'wishful' means settled case law as well as being included in the constitutions of dozens of states and legislation across the nation, then yes.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
01:58 PM on 08/20/2010
I believe that you have neglected to justify your stated position through demonstration of fact.
02:00 AM on 08/19/2010
Its interesting how gun apologists take no interest in the victims of gun carnage. Do the victims of Virginia Tech or the Connecticut bottler have no rights? Americans should have the right to not be slaughtered by fire arms.
03:44 AM on 08/19/2010
"Do the victims of Virginia Tech or the Connecticut bottler have no rights? Americans should have the right to not be slaughtered by fire arms. "

Good point, the students at Virginia Tech did NOT have their right to bear arms honored on campus and, as a result, they were deprived of the possibility of defending themselves and others.
03:51 AM on 08/19/2010
"Its interesting how gun apologists take no interest in the victims of gun carnage."

As has been said numerous times before, we care about the victims of ALL FORMS OF VIOLENCE. From day one we have said that we are in favor of working towards addressing all violence, not just violence committed with certain subsets of weapons.

It is your side that insists on carving out a select subset of violence to care about. And, ironically, your caring only seems to extend to that subset which represents violence committed with an implement which your side has an agenda against. In fact, we can't even get most anti-gun supporters to even acknowledge the existence of violence committed with weapons of than firearms, let alone agree to help work towards addressing other forms of violence.
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05:50 AM on 08/20/2010
"Its interesting how gun apologists take no interest in the victims of gun carnage."

What's interesting is that the anti-gun hysteria-mongers take no interest in the 100,000-2.5 million people who do not become victims of violent crime, because a good guy had a gun.
11:07 PM on 08/18/2010
We see no reason to except the Second Amendment from this broadly applicable interpretive rule.85 Thus, the Amendment’s declaratory preface could not overcome the unambiguously individual “right of the people to keep and bear Arms” conferred by the operative text – even if the collective-right and quasi-collective-right schools’ understanding of the preface’s meaning were correct, and even though the preface might help resolve any ambiguities concerning the scope of that individual right remaining after one has analyzed the operative text.

WHETHER THE SECOND AMENDMENT SECURES AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT The Second Amendment secures a right of individuals generally, not a right of States or a right restricted to persons serving in militias. August 24, 2004

Dept of Justice
11:20 PM on 08/18/2010
"the Amendment’s declaratory preface could not overcome the unambiguously individual “right of the people to keep and bear Arms” conferred by the operative text"
In this example it was decided that the first part of the amendment can be ignored and the second is unambiguous. What nonsense! The 2nd amendment has to be taken as a whole or not at all. In fact not at all would be the best course of action to stop the slaughter of Americans.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
11:32 PM on 08/18/2010
No one is ignoring the first 13 words. The first 13 words just don't mean what you think they mean.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
11:41 PM on 08/18/2010
Please justify your previous assertion that two Gallup-conducted surveys were actually "backed by the NRA".
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
08:59 PM on 08/18/2010
The Absolute Phrase.

The absolute phrase is probably one of the least understood contructs of the English language. Also called a nominative absolute, these phrases are often mistaken for clauses.

The basic construction of an absolute phrase is a noun, noun phrase, or other object which is not the subject of the sentence and a participial phrase. They are non-restrictive phrases and are properly set-off with commas from the clause to which they are attached.

Absolute phrases do not act adjectively on the subject or object of the clause. They do not cause the subject or object to exist, they do not modify or restrict the subject or object of the clause.

Acting adverbially through the finite or action verb of the predicate of the clause, absolute phrases provide backgroun information as to the circumstances of the action of the clause, but again, as non-restrictive phrases set-off by clauses they do not give the only circumstances for the action.

Absolute phrases are found more often in speech than in writing, but several notable written examples exit, probably the most famous of which is:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state"

This phrase does not create the right to arms, nor does it modify or restrict the right to arms. It gives one important reason to not onfringe the right.

Ref: Fowler's Modern English Usage; Harper's English Grammar; Websters Compact Writer's Guide; The Little, Brown Handbook.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
12:09 PM on 08/18/2010
"The right to bear arms refers to the right that individuals have to possess and use bear arms. This right is often presented in the context of military service and the broader right of self defense, or as of recently, the context of killing people for the heck of it.

Commonly the right to bear arms is confused with the God-given right of every red-blooded American to shoot people. That right however requires no legal justification to begin with since anyone giving gun-toting conservatives crap, will simply get shot. "

Local performance at a club in my area.....

Do the gun aficionados really want to be the butt of every stand up comedian in the free world?
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
01:04 PM on 08/18/2010
"Do the gun aficionados really want to be the butt of every stand up comedian in the free world? "

No. We don't like being the target of unenlightened bigotry any more than anyone else.
04:11 PM on 08/18/2010
As long as we keep winning every substansive battle in the legislature and courts, it really doesn't bother me. They can keep laughing as their cause swirls farther and farther down the drain.
02:30 PM on 08/18/2010
They don't mind being the butt of a joke as long as they can keep their guns. They ignore that arms were meant for a MILITIA and use rulings by activist judges to support the false claim that guns are for individual use. God has nothing to do with guns, God and Jesus advocated not killing anyone.
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
03:22 PM on 08/18/2010
"They ignore that arms were meant for a MILITIA and use rulings by activist judges to support the false claim that guns are for individual use."

In his popular edition of Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England (1803), St. George Tucker (see also), a lawyer, Revolutionary War militia officer, legal scholar, and later a U.S. District Court judge (appointed by James Madison in 1813), wrote of the Second Amendment:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and this without any qualification as to their condition or degree, as is the case in the British government.

In the appendix to the Commentaries, Tucker elaborates further:

This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty... The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Whenever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.

continued
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
03:24 PM on 08/18/2010
In England, the people have been disarmed, generally, under the specious pretext of preserving the game: a never failing lure to bring over the landed aristocracy to support any measure, under that mask, though calculated for very different purposes. True it is, their bill of rights seems at first view to counteract this policy: but the right of bearing arms is confined to protestants, and the words suitable to their condition and degree, have been interpreted to authorise the prohibition of keeping a gun or other engine for the destruction of game, to any farmer, or inferior tradesman, or other person not qualified to kill game. So that not one man in five hundred can keep a gun in his house without being subject to a penalty.

Where in any of the preceding comments can you get that the militia is the elite orgaization that is allowed to keep and bear arms?
06:40 PM on 08/17/2010
Its ironic that this minority of gun owners want to keep guns only to see them stolen. Even when not stolen the purchase system is a joke the Craigslist killer used a fake ID to buy his gun!

The FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) stolen gun file contained over 2 million reports as of March 1995. In 1994, over 306,000 entries were added to this file including a variety of guns, ammunition, cannons and grenades. Reports of stolen guns are included in the NCIC files when citizens report the theft to law enforcement agencies which submit a report to the FBI. All entries must include make, caliber, and serial number. Initiated in 1967, the NCIC stolen gun file retains all entries indefinitely unless a recovery is reported.
07:53 PM on 08/17/2010
"Its ironic that this minority of gun owners want to keep guns only to see them stolen."

Do you have any evidence to support the claim that most gun owners have their guns stolen?

"Even when not stolen the purchase system is a joke the Craigslist killer used a fake ID to buy his gun!"

According to the police, the killer matched the description on his stolen ID almost perfectly. The gun shop owner is facing no criminal charges and the police have not accused him of any wrongdoing You can't blame it on the system. Just good tactics by the criminal

Anyway I'm really not sure what your point is. When someone has their car stolen, the response is not to blame the car owner, but to prosecute the theif and reccomend tips to the owner for better security. There is no reason the response should be different when it comes to guns.
11:00 PM on 08/17/2010
People, I never said most gun owners have their guns stolen. The old statistic was 2 MILLION! The number of stolen guns boggles the minds. Do you not care about the carnage and slaughter these guns caused? As for the Craigslist killer, it shows how lax the system is that someone can use a fake ID to buy a gun, good tactics by the criminal? No a lousy system that allows killers to buy guns. Check out this straight forward site on gun carnage and theft,
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/search/?q=&l=United+States
08:02 PM on 08/17/2010
According to DW, another anti-gun advocate who posts here, the FBI is also bought and paid for by the NRA, kind of like you claim Gallup is.
03:59 PM on 08/17/2010
Dennis and Paul are at it again but, it doesn't change the fact that the right of the people to keep and bear arms is fundamental. A link here to the Supreme Court ruling that covers ownership (keep), self protection (bear), the militia clause, and etc. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
01:57 PM on 08/17/2010
Interesting that gnuts have had to bring in their "hired gun" to attempt to clarify and intellectually intimidate the antigun commenters....Seems beagle45 only appears when the gun squad is showing signs of turning tail and running for cover and he appears with words a'blazing to set the town right.....For all the legal "scholar" input from beagle why do most, other than right wing fringers such as the SCROTUS majority, interpret the 2nd "bear arms" to mean "wage war" as was the long standing English definition, so long in usage that Shakespeare used the terms several times.....
04:13 PM on 08/17/2010
Maybe they just get tired of hanging out with folks who operate at the bottom of the argument pyramid?

http://blog.createdebate.com/2008/04/07/writing-strong-arguments/
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
12:04 PM on 08/18/2010
And you just violated most of the points made in the link.......Your retort hierarchy is at the basement level and working down.....I know, but I couldn't resist....

"Maybe they just get tired of hanging out with folks who operate at the bottom of the argument pyramid?" Just0 said .......................
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04:21 PM on 08/17/2010
Nice little rant, how much are they paying me?

enlightenedone wrote: "For all the legal "scholar" input from beagle why do most, other than right wing fringers such as the SCROTUS majority, interpret the 2nd "bear arms" to mean "wage war" as was the long standing English definition, so long in usage that Shakespeare used the terms several times"

I never knew that Justice Ginsburg was a "right wing fringers". See, Muscarello v. United States, 524 U. S. 125 (1998) in which she claimed bear meant: ‘to wear, bear, or carry upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose . . . of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person.’ See also, See Johnson 161; Webster; T. Sheridan, A Complete Dictionary of the English Language (1796).

Want to try again?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
03:02 PM on 08/18/2010
How much are they paying you? And which pro gun organization is the "they" ?
11:44 PM on 08/16/2010
Just4, Americans don't have a fundamental right to own guns. Arms were meant for use in a militia, not personal use. Activist judges have tried to make it an individual right, but we know better.
01:31 AM on 08/17/2010
Sorry, but your opinion is not the law of the land, the constitution is. And the constitution recognizes and INDIVIDUAL right to bear arms. There is no way around it.

I'm not sure who the "we" you are reffering too includes, but it's not a majority in any aspect of American society. The SCOTUS ruling on the 2A was supported by the vast majority of the American public and both political parties (Obama and McCain each said they supported the ruling during the 2008 election).

You belief that the 2A isn't an individual right to bear arms puts you way out of mainstreem. There is nothing wrong with that, but it's something you should realize and accept.
02:54 AM on 08/17/2010
Ohio9 It is the law of the land that arms are for a militia! MILITIA. Activist judges have ignored the fact that arms are not an individual right outside of a militia. The vast majority of Americans don't own guns, and are sick and tired of seeing Americans slaughtered.
12:14 PM on 08/17/2010
The law of the land should be as the 2nd states it that arms are for use in a militia. Why should we have a protected minority that is allowed to own arms when it causes so much carnage in society. there were 30,896 deaths from firearms in 2006 alone.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
rikilii
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
07:47 AM on 08/17/2010
ScorpioTop, do you believe that all private gun ownership should be banned, including confiscation of existing private firearms?

If not, generally speaking what is the universe of gun regulations that you think should be in place?
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07:59 AM on 08/17/2010
How does "the universe of gun regulations" differ from mere "gun regulations", in your appraisal?
10:42 AM on 08/17/2010
Just as shocking at the time it was to end slavery, it was done. It will be a big social change to have a gun free America. The costs in lives far outweigh the convienence
11:41 PM on 08/16/2010
What kind of gun would Jesus carry?
01:32 AM on 08/17/2010
How is this relevent to the topic at hand?
02:58 AM on 08/17/2010
An earlier poster said guns were our God given right LOL. It made me ponder, "What gun would Jesus own?" The silence to this post was deafening. So tell me, What gun would Jesus own?
08:22 AM on 08/17/2010
Jesus would have carried the common arm of the day. That is, for those times, the sword. And he encourages those who follow him to sell their cloak to buy one. That's in Luke and you could have found it in about 2 seconds with a search on the internet.
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08:35 AM on 08/17/2010
He didn't, though. I didn't even need the internet for that one.