Whose Decision Is It, Anyway?

There has been much discussion about using schools for an "all out" vaccination campaign this fall, for both the regular flu shot and the new H1N1 vaccine.1 According to authorities, students would ideally be vaccinated before school starts, but the swine flu vaccine won't be available until mid-October, making schools a logical place to begin mass vaccination.

According to permission slips issued in some school districts in Maine, parents must be present when their child is vaccinated if the child is in grade K through 2. For older students, parents are not required to attend, but they may do so if they wish. In the fine print of the permission slips, parents are notified of the date that a second, seasonal influenza vaccine will be administered to children who have never received a regular seasonal flu shot before.2 While the Maine Department of Education is quick to point that this is not a mandatory program, if the government declares an Influenza Pandemic Emergency, will those who question the safety and efficacy of both the season flu shot and the new swine flu shot retain their right to refuse for their kids?

Parental Consent vs. Physicians and the State

Parents have fewer rights over the health and welfare of their children that they may recognize. This concept reaches back into antiquity when the rulers in Sparta forcibly removed children from families so they could be indoctrinated with the willingness and importance of dying for the State in war. 3 This was also the model for Plato's idealized Republic. Interestingly, in 1918, the congress of the Communist Party's education workers in Russia asserted, "We must remove the children from the crude influence of their families." 4

When it comes to medical decisions, physicians are charged with ensuring the medical standard of care, defined as a treatment process that a clinician should follow for a given circumstance, is carried out on children, even over the objections of their parents. Doctors not only have the right to step in. All states have laws making it mandatory to report perceived medical abuse and neglect to Children's Protective Services (CPS). Physicians usually make the call when s/he feels the action--or inaction--of a parent places the child in danger of death or disability. A common example is a forced transfusion of blood to save the life of a child whose parents are Jehovah's Witnesses. However, not vaccinating has come under scrutiny and in some circles is starting to be viewed as medical neglect. The American Academy of Pediatrics recently concluded that, "Continued (vaccine) refusal after adequate discussion should be respected unless the child is put at significant risk of serious harm (as, for example, might be the case during an epidemic). Only then should state agencies be involved to override parental discretion on the basis of medical neglect".5

Wide support and extensive court precedence exists to back a doctor's discretion to call in CPS. The rationale for this authority was clearly written in a 1996 paper that states, "Whether (the guardians) are sincere, sane, and in every other capacity model parents, their insistence upon treatment that is scientifically inferior to conventionally accepted treatment is abusive, even if their intent is not."6 The current system, in its original intent, was set up to protect obviously abused and neglected children. The system would be a good one if medical professionals were amenable to common sense.

Unfortunately, common sense isn't very common these days and disagreeing with your doctor can lead to serious consequences. Because the government agrees with the premise, "Doctor Knows Best," parents can be deemed unfit when they refuse a medical treatment. Children can be removed from the home by CPS until proof of parental fitness is determined by a judge. The judge can also be the doctor himself: Physicians have the right to eject entire families from their practice when an obstreperous patient refuses - or even questions - routine vaccinations.

There have been several high-profile standoffs in the last several years where judges, medical doctors and the State have forced medical treatments on children against the objections of their parents.

In January, 2005, 13-year-old Katie Wernecke was diagnosed with Hodgkin's disease. When Katie's parents, Michele and Edward Wernecke, refused radiation treatments for their daughter, Texas CPS intervened. Katie was placed in foster care for four months and her mother was arrested on charges of interfering with child custody.

In July, 2006, the story of 9-month-old Riley Rogers made the news when he was diagnosed with a kidney problem that required emergency surgery. His mother disagreed and smuggled her son out of the hospital. Several days later, he was found and sent back to the hospital; the mother was charged with second-degree kidnapping and sent to jail. As it turned out, the surgery was not emergently needed after all.

Also in 2006, the story of Abraham Cherrix resulted in a change in the law in Virginia. After enduring three months of ineffective treatments for Hodgkin's lymphoma, Abraham rejected his doctor's recommendation for a second round of chemotherapy. He chose to use more natural, nontoxic methods that included alternative medicine. A judge ordered him back to chemotherapy, starting a debate on whether the government should get involved in family medical decisions. A compromise was reached in Accomack County Circuit Court: Abraham was not required to have chemotherapy if his family consented to treatment with a radiation oncologist who used both conventional and alternative methods. As a result of this high-profile case, Gov. Timothy M. Kaine signed a bill dubbed "Abraham's Law," giving parents and children more leeway in refusing medical treatment. 9

These stories should raise the eyebrows of every parent, leading them to ask the question, "Who really owns your child?" and more to the point, "Who owns your child's body?" At what age a child "officially" become the age of majority in the U.S and have the right to decide what goes in his body?

Children Making Adult Decisions

The answer varies widely among the states and in some locales, the very young have the right to make very big decisions. For example, a youth can legally get married with parental consent in Georgia, Mississippi, Michigan, and North Carolina when 15 years of age. In Texas, 14-year-olds can wed with judicial consent, and amazingly, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania will even allow 13-year-old girls to marry with parental consent and court permission.

However, most states seem to delineate 16 years of age as the transition to adulthood. Nearly every state will allow 16 year old to marry with parental consent. At 16, a teen can hold a full-time job, travel alone outside the country, hold a driver's permit, and have full responsibility for someone's children as a baby sitter. In many states, a 16-year-old can even be tried as an adult for murder.

When it comes to consent to medical care, the focal point of the debate over a minors' access to confidential services and the right to determine his or her own care originated in 1970 with the passage of the Title X family planning program. Since its inception, services supported by Title X have been available to anyone who needs them without regard to age.

With the passage of time, the ability for minors to legally and fully consent to a range of sensitive health care services--including sexual and reproductive health care, mental health services and alcohol and drug abuse treatment--has expanded dramatically. The trend was based on the presumption that while parental involvement in minors' health care decisions is desirable, many minors will not participate in medical services if forced to involve their parents. In most cases, state consent laws apply to all minors age 12 and older. These examples are eye-popping:

In 25 states and the District of Columbia, all minors (12 and older) can receive contraceptive services without parental participation.

In 28 states and the District of Columbia, all minor parents have the right to place their child for adoption. Of these, only 4 states (LA, MI, MN, RI) require parental consent.
In three states (CT, ME, MD) and the District of Columbia explicitly allow minors, 12 years of age and older, to consent to an abortion without involvement or notification of a parent. Only 22 states require parental consent and only 11 require a parent to be notified prior to an abortion.12

Of the 35 states with specific statutes, 30 states allow a minor to obtain authorization for an abortion from a judge without informing her parents. This option, given to protect a minor's constitutional right to privacy, has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.13

All this latitude has been given to minors to ensure they have rights for consenting to treatment. But- and this is key - they have little or no rights when it comes to refusing medical treatment forced upon them by doctors and the government, even when their parents support their right to refuse.
So, where is the line between the right to refuse a medication or a vaccine and the right of the state to forcibly intervene, even in the event of a declared national emergency? Who gets to make the decision? Will it be parents and smart teens, or persons in white lab coats and black robes? For me, I will fight to maintain the line between me and "them" at the level of my skin.

Notes:

1 "Vaccination Program That Targets Children First May Lessen Spread of Swine Flu This Fall," WebMD News. September 10, 2009

2 "Schools in Maine Participating With Flu Vaccinations."

3 "The Free Market and Education: A Review," by Ken Schoolland. 1996.

4 Ibid. Ken Schoolland. www.fff.org/aboutus/press/schooland.asp

5 Salmon DA, Omer SB. "Individual freedoms versus collective responsibility: immunization decision-making in the face of occasionally competing values."

6 Rosen, J Emergency Med. 1996;14:241-243.

7 "State-sponsored medical terrorism: Texas authorities arrest parents, kidnap their teenage daughter, and force her through chemotherapy against her will"

8 "Baby undergoes surgery despite mom's worries." by M. Alexander Otto. The News Tribune. July 2nd, 2006.

9 "Assembly Gives 14-Year-Olds A Say on Key Medical Care," Washington Post. February 24, 2007.

10 Wikipedia: Marriageable age

11 Minors and the Right to Consent to Health Care The Guttmacher Report on Public Policy. August, 2009.

12 An Overview of Minors' Consent Laws

13 Ibid. Minors' Consent Laws.

Comments

[Wes23]

Part 2 of my comment:
Japan experienced yearly increases in small pox following the introduction of compulsory vaccines in 1872. By 1892, there were 29,979 deaths, and all had been vaccinated.
In the early 1900's, the Philippines experienced their worst smallpox epidemic ever after 8 million people received 24.5 million vaccine doses (achieving a vaccination rate of 95%); the death rate quadrupled as a result.
Before England's first compulsory vaccination law in 1853, the largest two-year smallpox death rate was about 2,000; in 1870-71, England and Wales had over 23,000 smallpox deaths. In 1989, the country of Oman experienced a widespread polio outbreak six months after achieving complete vaccination.
In the US in 1986, 90% of 1300 pertussis cases in Kansas were "adequately vaccinated­." 72% of pertussis cases in the 1993 Chicago outbreak were fully up to date with their vaccinations.

[Wes23]

What I find so interesting from some of these comments on here is that, people seem to think that once you get a jab for whatever disease it's for that you won't contract it. That somehow those that don't get jabbed are protected by "the herd". This is utterly false.
The medical literature has a surprising number of studies documenting vaccine failure. Measles, mumps, small pox, pertussis, polio and Hib outbreaks have all occurred in vaccinated populations. , , , , In 1989 the CDC reported: "Among school-aged children, [measles] outbreaks have occurred in schools with vaccination levels of greater than 98 percent. [They] have occurred in all parts of the country, including areas that had not reported measles for years."
The CDC even reported a measles outbreak in a documented 100% vaccinated population. A study examining this phenomenon concluded, "The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons."
A more recent study found that measles vaccination "produces immune suppression which contributes to an increased susceptibility to other infections­." These studies suggest that the goal of complete "immunization" may actually be counter-productive, a notion underscored by instances in which epidemics followed complete immunization of entire countries.

[mofmars333]

Breaking News!

Pass this around & wake up everyone, especially, your physicians, people.

This will do it for those that are blind & put a stopper in all the rhetoric.

No room for denial now thanks to good doctors like these.

Soon, more doctors will be joining the ranks of truth to this matter & we can begin our road to recovery.

"Swine Flu -- One of the Most Massive Cover-ups in American History"

Find out all the reasons why pregnant women should NEVER get the H1N1 vaccine. Renowned expert exposes major H1N1 myths.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/03/What-We-Have-Learned-About-the-Great-Swine-Flu-Pandemic.aspx

[Curious and Concerned]

In matters of life and health, critical thinking is imperative. Judged by many works written by doctors about vaccination, based on science, there is good reason for vaccines to be controversial.

Do flu vaccines work? The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews (highly regarded), show little to no statistical benefit to the flu vaccines. The viral epidemics that vaccines supposedly eradicated were dying out on their own (they also disappeared in countries where no vaccines were used). The proof of efficacy is largely not there.

Do vaccines have negative effects? Yes, and again, see the science. It shows a definitive link between vaccines and learning disorders, between vaccines and cot deaths, aka SIDS, and more.

I would suggest visiting the author's web site at drtenpenny.com; the National Vaccine Information Center at www.nvic.org; and www.vaccinationdebate.com. Get the inserts that come along with the vaccines: the drug companies admit to a wide range of significant health issues caused by vaccines.

There is a great summary of the brain and neurological problems from vaccination, by a doctor, in the foreword of the Vaccine Safety Manual by Neil Miller, a book also based on scientific studies.

Informed consent is essential. Doctors are not infallible. Medicine is not infallible. Iatrogenesis (doctor-caused disease and death) has been documented by government agencies as the leading cause of death in the U.S., (Death by Medicine, Gary Null, PhD), it is time to take responsibility for our own health.

[AbeMartin]

I remember standing in line in elementary school to receive Salk Polio vaccine. We did not have an "opt out clause." Polio was widespread, crippling and often deadly. Those who didn't die spent years in iron lungs, which enabled them to breath.

All children who do not have a documented risk to egg products should be required to get the shot. If you want to see the consequences of an uncontrolled influenza epidemic, visit an old cemetery in your town. And note the many, many graves of people, especially children who died in 1918-1919. That's the consequence of lack of vaccine.

[sixyfivepercentwater]

The widespread preciousness about vaccination is absurd. Any responsible person who weighed the risks against the benefits of any of the standard vaccinations would choose vaccination. I think you're making a good point when you note that none of us has seen an epidemic. Anyone who did live in the times when they watched children die of diseases not only prayed for vaccines but jumped at the chance to vaccinate, every time.

Any parent who does not vaccinate their child is neglecting that child and putting all other children and babies who are not old enough to be vaccinated at risk. That is an unconscionable thing to do and it should not be allowed. There are some decisions even a parent should not get to make for their child, and it amazes me that these parents refuse to vaccinate based on rumors, superstition and plain wrong-thinking.

In regard to the flu vaccination, I'm not getting one but if I had a child I'd move heaven and earth to get the child vaccinated. (And I'd probably get vaccinated so I didn't transmit the disease to a child in that case also.) Any parent who would risk watching their child suffer for days and perhaps die based on ignorance about a vaccine should be prosecuted for neglect and abuse.

[mofmars333]

Why aren't you doing your duty & getting one if you think they're so safe?

[mofmars333]

Truth be known, I'd bet vaccines are the culprits in the first place, even back in 1918. I think we've fooled with "Mother Nature" much too much.

Yes, man had made giant strides & I'm not saying all vaccinations have been bad, I don't know, but my gut has always told me there's danger in vaccinating.

Then adding all the facts we now have to the equation, yep, vaccinations which were meant to do good, went very bad somewhere along the way.

[mofmars333]

From reading his comments maybe drjasonmd hasn't seen the latest fact on this matter so I'd like to call special attention to this for him & those who may have missed it.

This is major & I can't believe people aren't discussing it more than they are.

Drug Giant Merck – “Destroy” Critical Doctors “Where They Live

"Court evidence now available on-line at the University of California library shows drug giant Merck systematically targeted “hit-lists” of doctors to discredit, neutralise or destroy critics of the safety and effectiveness of Merck’s drugs."

This included the controversial matter of Andrew Wakefield who's a British medical doctor who put children's health & safety over autism & the MMR vaccine before his career & has been hounded by big money ever since.

People here in these same type blogs who delighted in working to help discredit & smear him haven't said a word about this & I'm wondering what they're thinking?

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/10/12/merckdestroydoccritics/

Be sure to check out the whole site. It's wonderful to see so many articles & educational documentaries that bury all the deception our people have been fed for far too long.

Read & learn more from comments at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/nih-director-francis-coll_b_328028.html?show_comment_id=33332218#comment_33332218

[TigersEye]

Interested in the H1N1 vaccine? Before you subject yourself and your children to it please make an informed decision by first reading up on it:

http://www.naturalnews.com/026779_swine_flu_patents_vaccines.html

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/health-care/1813

http://www.falseflagflu.com/pdf/Fliers/SwineFLuVaccineFactSheet.pdf

[mofmars333]

Here's a good read also that will help people learn & decide whether or not to take the shot.

With many people asking questions, here's a compiled list of those frequently asked along with some less frequently asked.

This article will help the reader to make an informed decision about the risks and benefits of getting vaccinated­."

http://www.thevaccination.com/article/2/Should-I-get-the-new-H1N1-vaccine.html

[Sheldon101]

C'mon mofmars333. By now you've read enough here to know that some of the claims in the article you link to are false. Isn't it intellectually dishonest to continue to link to information (such as squalene in US flu vaccine) when you know it is false?

[carly after]

It is absolutely not fair to the child that they should not get vaccinated. It is debatable whether flu shots should be mandatory, but there should be no question of the importance of vaccinations for diseases such as meningitis. A child should not suffer because there parent's aren't educated enough to understand the importance of vaccinations. I think that in those situations, the doctors should be able to vaccinate the child against the parent's opinion.

[TigersEye]

Perhaps you should educate yourself and read this:

http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html

Or, continue to line the coffers of the pharmaceutical companies by getting vaccinated.

[drjasonmd]

Or watch your kids die of measles.

What a crackpot site indeed. Here's a gem of a quote:

"It is a well kept secret that medical doctors have been the greatest vaccination critics, there were 14 medical people on the board of the The National Anti-Vaccination League in 1936, and after a 100 years or so of smallpox vaccination, why, and this is one vaccinators can't answer, did a notable scientist of his day, Wallace, and many notable medical doctors Pearce, Collins, Creighton, Crookshank, Hadwen, Beddow Bayly, turn against their profession's holy creed, and become anti-vaccine?"

So doctors being against vaccination nearly a century ago is a reason to be against it now? A real well-kept secret since all those doctors were published throughout the medical literature and their theories never panned out. Good thing those doctors weren't against the smallpox vaccine, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to eradicate smallpox.

What's that? It was the smallpox vaccine they were protesting? Never mind. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[drjasonmd]

Boy, that site just gets better and better.

"The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunizati­on.....The­re is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease."

Does he mean like eliminating smallpox? Polio? When's the last time you saw a child with measles for that matter?

Oh wait. All the doctors quoted on that site made these statements 50 years ago. A lot of science has been carried out since then. That's the difference between science and religion (or alternative medicine for that matter). Science updates its theories as new data becomes available. Religion (and alternative medicine) dismisses any data that contradicts its original theory by claiming there is a secret conspiracy to keep its wisdom from the world.

Perhaps the one who needs educating is you? Start at the Enlightenment and work your way towards the present. Clearly the scientific method was not taught in your school or you'd spot the silliness of these claims at first glance.

[tploomis]

I think adults should have a right to refuse medical treatment for themselves, even if this means they die, but children are not competent to make their own medical decisions and parents are often not competent to make medical decisions for their children either. When that is the case, Child Protective Services has a responsibility to step in and remove the child from the home, if there is indeed medical neglect. In most cases the doctor does know best. Certainly the doctor knows more about medical issues than 99 percent of the public.

[TigersEye]

How little you know.

[Sheldon101]

It's your decision until too many die or are injured.
----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­---------
In the US, mandatory vaccination laws without any exemptions are constitutional. http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/pp/prince-v-ma.htm Courts can decide that failure to vaccinate is child abuse remedied by court ordered vaccination. http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/vaccines/ChristineM.htm

Flu vaccination is a special case because currently a new vaccine is needed every year.

Otherwise, not having your children vaccinated is allowed only because the number of children, especially not their own, killed or injured hasn't been high enough that public opinion says, enough is enough. At which point, lots of new programs will be started to encourage or require vaccination to attend school.

I'm sure sanity will prevail before it's necessary, but society can even require home schooled children vaccinated to protect the children directly and protect those of our children who cannot be directly protected by vaccination.

That may not be so far off if herd immunity is lost. http://www.dailystrength.org/experts/dr-jeremy/article/vaccine-exemptions-and-the-loss-of-herd-immunity

One possible approach is a class action lawsuit against every parent filing a vaccination exemption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2553651/#R10

Flu Vaccination: Safe, Effective and Morally Correct
www.vaccineswork.blogspot.com

[PeterVanKan]

I find it shocking how little attention the flu/vaccin debate gets on HP, and how uninformed people seem to be.
In many European countries the majority of people will NOT take the shot. And the numners are highest among medical workers. If you wonder why: GET INFORMED.
And if you donlt want to do that, fine. But then STOP suggesting that people who do get informed and then refuse to let their children be vaccinated, are irresponsible.

[carly after]

Do you have any evidence for this?
I grew up in Britain and pretty much every very important vaccination that I got over the age of 4 was given to me at school. I never knew anyone who didn't get a shot.

[drjasonmd]

Every claim in that post is B O G U S.

[TigersEye]

You're not biased at all, are you?

[redplanet]

I remember when one of my kids was ill. I took him to local clinic which wanted to do a spinal tap. I refused. There was not one symptom of spinal meningitis - I looked it up. But when I said, "he spit out the medicine", the doctor wrote it down as "he vomited." These manipulative sentences kept coming. Soon, she was writing that he had a stiff neck. He did not.

The head of the clinic called me that night at home. When he said, "If it makes you feel better, 95% of kids we do a spinal tap on do not have spinal meningitis­." I then asked him how many kids died of it in his practice the previous year because they overlooked it. He paused and said it was 2. I told him they needed to get proper training - my kid was not going to be sacrificial lamb because they were overcompensating for the previous year's neglect. 95% is a ridiculous number - they were just throwing every kid with a fever into spinal taps.

The next morning my son was all better which, when related to the clinic, was accepted with scorn. Luckily my father was an M.D. and taught at an Ivy med school and trained me to be cautious around doctors. He knows the dangers.

[lillibelle]

"Dangers," yes. To quote my very wise father (who had the same background as your father),

"Stay away from doctors and hospitals.­"

I try my best to follow his advice.

[TigersEye]

I've worked in the field for too many years to mention and I absolutely agree.

[mergina]

Force vaccinations? For the child's welfare or for a pharmaceutical coffer?

[TetonJumper]

Whose decision? Obamacare thinks it should be the government. How about you Mom and Dad?

[luckyone77]

It is very strange, that if you cant or your insurance won't pay, they don't have to treat you, but something you don't want, you have no right to refuse. And if the vaccine kills you, they are not liable. There is something terribly, terribly wrong here. Please see the video at the end of this link. CDC is NOT tracking the number of cases. Doctors are NOT confirming H1N1 cases. There is no data being collected, and absolutely no proof that the epidemic is real, and no basis for declaration of national emergency. But they have ordered all this vaccine, and have to get rid of it, putting everyone at risk. Please see the video at the end of this link, also numerous articles on global pandemic response

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1417%3Aqthe-new-twilight-zone-obama-declares-swine-flu-emergencyq&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

[TigersEye]

You have to wonder about the safety of a "vaccine" when the first order of business is ensuring that the makers of said vaccine are not held liable for any adverse reactions, including death.

[MicheleCA]

No kidding!