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Eliza Wood

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Rabbi Challenges the Catholic Church

Posted: 07/16/2012 1:24 pm

Rarely do heads of religious institutions engage in heated arguments these days in America. We have come to expect a certain level of neutrality, some objectivity and a careful amount of diplomacy in all situations. We look to our faith leaders to demonstrate the highest level of respect for one another, and model the behavior we are all taught to show for one another in our country, which is such a unique example of a religiously free democracy.

Usually that happens. Not always.

In a rare display of public concern for the religious freedom of American Roman Catholic women and possibly all Roman Catholic women, an American Jewish rabbi called for change within the Catholic Church. In response to the harsh treatment of our American Roman Catholic nuns, Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Ph.D., founder of the earth-loving, justice- seeking, peace-promoting Shalom Center in Philadelphia, wrote a Shalom Center Report Letter initially intended for his community, criticizing the Roman Catholic leadership for its harsh treatment of our nuns , whom he holds up as champions of social justice.

It was a good letter. It got my attention. I even commented on it when the letter was picked up and published in The Huffington Post. His community newsletter had become national news, and people like me noticed. That was the day Eliza Wood started reading up on Rabbi Arthur Waskow.

Holy cow! What kind of a rabbi is bold enough to state opposition to Roman Catholic leadership in a publication? How do the nuns feel about their new supporter? And, moreover, what the heck happens when a rabbi challenges a bishop or Roman Catholic leader about his entrenched religious beliefs?

Those answers are not yet fully known and hopefully much good will come of Rabbi Waskow's efforts, but the rabbi's suggestions were not well received by the Catholics; and the reply was fast and fierce by Bill Donohue, President of the Catholic League. Not well at all. In fact, Donohue replied to Rabbi Waskow's well-constructed suggestions using anti-Jewish threats, and even apparently misquoted former Mayor Ed Koch in his reply, a point quickly corrected by Mayor Koch himself.

It appears round one went to the rabbi, but the whole thing is worth reading.

Now, people like me do not let this kind of religious showdown go unreported, and so I requested the opportunity to speak with Rabbi Waskow on June 28 to get a better sense of his objectives and overarching goals in this Catholic matter, as well as his mission at the Shalom Center.

Based on years of thought, study and interfaith collaboration, Rabbi Waskow has come to fear that all of humanity is in an earthquake of sorts that is both environmental and societal.

Humans are quaking.

That is his general sense of what is happening in the world, and he sees this acutely happening in the Roman Catholic Church as they try to resist progress.

Rabbi Waskow says there are predictable ways people tend to behave during a quake:

  • They can ignore and deny the facts, which cause them to get repeatedly hit, hurt and killed by falling objects.

  • They can freeze, grab hold of some object and hope for the best. (Waskow points out that in a social earthquake, it may mean gripping a memory and insisting on trying to live that way while trying to coerce others into doing so as well.)

  • They can "dance." Dancing through an earthquake is the hardest response to do, but the move is "life giving," in his opinion.

Living in California provides a person many opportunities to experience real earthquakes, and the largest one I have ever felt was a 7.9 on the Richter scale. Standing in my kitchen, watching the windows shake so hard I thought they would all shatter, it was sheer terror for me. When I stood up it felt like I was standing on large snakes that were moving. When it stopped, I ran outside and spoke to a runner passing by my home, who had felt absolutely nothing at all. Based on that personal knowledge, I give the "dance" option a lot of credibility.

I often talk about the need for flexibility. Recently I wrote several more mild responses to the fierce Catholic bishops' objections to Obamacare and the 43 lawsuits that had been filed. In one of my articles, I wrote:

"Inflexibility is probably the biggest indicator of imminent death in any situation. If people are biologically flexible, they can respond to whatever free radicals attack the immune system; if a business is flexible, it can adapt to meet the changing needs of customers. If politicians are flexible, they can represent the concerns of their constituents for decades. Anything that survives requires flexibility."

Dancing through an earthquake is another way of saying the same thing.

Peeling the layers of Rabbi Waskow's concerns back a bit -- starting with his fears for the earth, then humanity, then the Catholic women -- I found in him a layer of sympathy and true concern for what the Catholic leadership is going through. Didn't see that coming.

The rabbi explained that he is very sympathetic to the leadership of Catholicism and their fear of change. He understands their fears of loss of control of their people and their cherished values. He can empathize with that as a leader in a faith that has had to change or dwindle.

The Roman Catholic leadership fears their church is at risk. The male Catholic leaders feel the responsibility as keepers of their culture to plug the holes in the boat before it sinks. So, he infers, they continue to ignore and deny changes happening within the church and, when that doesn't work, they grab even more tightly to their faith's tenets -- as outdated and impractical as they may appear to the rest of us.

What they cannot seem to do is relax, hear the music and dance. Understandable.

But according to Rabbi Waskow, this dance is the only logical response that can work. This is a rabbi who cares for the whole human family, and he assured me that he is not alone among rabbis, which was news to me. I've known and studied under a handful of rabbis who never focused outside the needs of their own community, with the constant exception of focusing on the needs of Israel.

It suddenly occurred to me that I might have seen this episode years ago on Star Trek. Heightened responses were met with heightened responses, and in the end the only way through the crisis was to lower the guard of the starship Enterprise. At the height of the crisis, it needed to become vulnerable to survive.

The rabbi senses that the nuns, and Catholic women in general, are being a bit bullied by the disconnected male Catholic leadership in Rome. He offered the point that Rome tries to continue to deny that women have a "religious conscience." However, some 96-97 percent of Catholic women do in fact use contraception, so they have therefore overruled the Roman Catholic Church. But Rome hasn't figured that out yet.

Fair enough. No one likes a bully.

Yet, I have learned not to rush to liberate women who don't want to be liberated. Oprah Winfrey made that loud and clear to the Western world when she invited a panel of Muslim women to speak about wearing a veil. Many love it and consider themselves more modest and respectful of God with a veil. Some, if not most, modern Muslim women have choice in the matter of how much or how little to cover of themselves.

Having recently been a resident of the Gulf region for three years, I can confirm that the women I knew would not be comfortable without their veils. While there may have been other changes they hoped for, that wasn't one. Certainly the Muslim world is large and complex and there are many abuses of women in some places that need our concern.

Not only did Oprah's guests say a loud and clear "don't pity us," but they made the point that in some ways they are ahead of Western women, stating that Mohammed gave them the right to own property some five hundred years before American women would have the same rights.

Ouch.

So, while responses from many, including feminist Gloria Steinem, are powerful and call attention to the fair treatment of Catholic women, it might be nice to hear more responses from the nuns themselves as well as a variety of mainstream Catholic women at the center of all this, just to confirm that they want the help we assume they do. If so, many more will certainly jump in to help them.

But at the core of this, is there a more general American pushing back against any display of a repressive faith in our free land? A whole new generation of Americans just got their first glimpse at how repressive Roman Catholicism can be when these stories hit the news. The issue of religious freedom that the Roman Catholics have held high as their cause in all the recent rallies is at now the crux of their problem: many mainstream American people believe that women need freedom from that kind of religion, not the kind of religious freedom that forces omen to conceive and have children against their wills and without benefit of healthcare. That sounds more like asking women to fight to be more repressed, right?

At present, progressplanet.com considers the debate both a celebration of religious freedom in which our leaders can debate their views -- hopefully constructively and without any fear of retribution -- and a shame that better paths are not open for dialogue.

In America, our faiths are not always open to insights from outsiders. Rabbi Waskow's more recent blog continued his point that "no religion is an island," meaning that when members of one faith appear to be unfairly treated they must expect a response from other faiths.

Suggestions to a religious leader or group from an outside faith leader may sound like attacks. They may seem like poor religious etiquette, but, God bless us, we get to do that!

That is America. That is religious freedom.

Good for us. We often forget how many tens of thousands have died for that.

That is progress!

 
 
 

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10:34 AM on 07/19/2012
Fresh Air. The Rabbi's comments are as off base as yours. Nuns are not under attack. The Leadership Conference of Women Religious, which has as affiliate members 80% of all nuns, was investigated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith over a period of years and were found to be unfaithful in SOME critical areas of teaching of the Church.

To say that such attention is wrong is like saying Microsoft should care that their accounting department is not following the Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. If that would be negligent on their part, how much more would the Catholic Church be negligent to let a group of religious go around teaching what the Catholic Church doesn't teach?
12:26 AM on 07/18/2012
And why should I care what a rabbi says when he is wearing a rainbow kippah?

There are many dedicated nuns performing the Lord’s work. God bless them for all they do.

But I have met a few wacky ones who seem to be wondering in the wilderness in search of a mission. Unfortunately these lost souls have latched onto popular but loser and ill conceived causes. These are the ones the Pope has in mind when he criticized US nuns for being too "progressive." Many have supported causes that are clearly against the teachings of the Church and of the Bible. I think of them as gullible victims of populist propaganda. Perhaps they listen too much to the lamestream media or read too many blogs on line. These nuns don’t see the political position or greedy guile of those pushing the propaganda. I pray for them.
10:31 PM on 07/17/2012
Religion. What would we do without it? Live together in peace, perhaps?
I could write a book about the malign effect of mankind's religions, but I will content myself at the moment with one issue. Abortion. It is the belief of the hierarchy of the Catholic church that abortion is wrong and must never happen. It is murder. What should be done about it? Make it a crime. What happens when you make abortion a crime? Women will get their abortions illegally. What happens when women get abortions illegally? They may die or suffer irreparable physical harm. Before Wade V Roe there were half a million illegal abortions a year, resulting in half a million dead embryos, but also in five thousand deaths of the women, and a 30% morbidity rate. Do we really want to go back to those days?
05:39 AM on 07/20/2012
Your statistics regarding the number of illegal abortions resulting in the death of the woman are totally BOGUS. Dr. Bernard Nathanson, founding member of NARAL has reported that he and his colleagues simply made up the figures ourt of thin air. Their were not even any real statistics taken on this subject at the time. Google Dr. Bernard Nathanson. Since the Roe vs. Wade decision over 50 million human babies have been murdered. How many of them were female? Maybe a better way to show you care about women would be to fight for their right to life.
12:04 PM on 07/20/2012
The statistics I quoted were not from Dr. Nathanson, they were from the Guttmacher Institute and I have no reason to believe that they are bogus.
01:58 PM on 08/09/2012
people kill themselves with poor choices every year. you shouldn't have abortions.
09:49 PM on 07/17/2012
“Thoughts at large: “If the governmental authorities, in any municipality, can by law were it is illegal, to close the doors on a brothel, where consenting adults consent to do whatever……; should they not have the authority to close the doors on the Catholic Church for acts against none consenting individuals?” Those who profess to be “good Catholics” should look elsewhere for an unadulterated spiritual food, lest they will be guilty by association.” And all that chatter about oppressed Nuns is nothing but chatter. The Nuns of the “Benedictine Sisters” order in Ireland, did a fine job oppressing wayward girls, and women the society has rejected as undesirable, into slavery for monetary gains.
09:08 PM on 07/17/2012
There is nothing wrong with challenging the statusquo and the RC Church should not take umbrage every time someone disagrees with its teachings (many of them arcane). Most of us grow through dialogue and discussion. A church that hides behind its so-called infallible dogmas is going nowhere.
08:54 PM on 07/17/2012
I wonder what the rabbi thinks about the Israeli suppression of the Palestinians, or the rabbis selling of human organs to people who need a transplant , let alone the sex abuse crimes by Orthodox Jews
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MRSM117
Unofficial defender of the Catholic faith
04:15 PM on 07/17/2012
Time and time again we read of this preoccupation by individuals and groups condemning the Catholic Church on one thing or another and is quite arrogant to criticize the religious beliefs of a group you are not a member of!

When are people going to accept that the Catholic Church is not a democracy. If you are not Catholic, or even if you are and you don't know your faith very well, it is hard to understand that the Church's teachings on faith and morals cannot and do not change to conform with changing times.

Roman Catholicism oppressive? No one is asking anyone to belong to the Church or follow the tenets of its faith. What "we" want is equal treatment under the law and that is, the right to religious freedom and liberty. Do you really think it is right that the administration demands that Catholic institutions violate their conscience? This is at the heart of this issue. Can you honestly tell me that you or anyone else has no problem with violating their conscience? This has absolutely nothing to do with the repression of women. Any woman can purchase birth control quite inexpensively and Planned Parenthood will also be very happy to help anyone out. I wonder how the good Rabbi would feel if the government forced Kosher meat markets to provide pork so they could better serve everyone. Do you really think he would accept this or should except this?
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Robert Frano
‘Plausible Deniability’: NOT A FAMILY_VALUE!!
07:24 PM on 07/17/2012
Re: "...Time and time again we read of this preoccupation by individuals/ groups condemning the Catholic Church on one thing /another" {MRSM117}

I might totally agree with you except for a few, wee-small-minor-issues, like...

The R.C.C. DOESN'T say ‘we’ll prevent gay Roman Catholics from marriage’! It says It’ll prevent ALL gays from marriage!
…Unless legislatively prevented from doing so!

Any religion failing to realize It’s polices / beliefs STOP where I / other non-believer’s lives begin is like Al-Qaida / the taliban, and / or...
The medieval catholic church…
With their Jew-pogroms, witch-burnings, gay/other slaughters, the ongoing, ‘We-NEVER-met-a-blood-bath-we-didn't-thoroughly-exploit / enjoy!' dogmatic-intolerance!

Re: “Roman Catholicism oppressive? No one is asking anyone to belong to the Church or follow the tenets of its faith”

…Excuse me?
What is/was the Catholic bishop’s thus-far-failed-effort to stop mandatory, inclusive birth control for ANY / ALL employees, (catholic / otherwise)?

…What was the threatened withdrawal of the Catholic Church from adoption / other publicly funded social-services, after they realized they’d be forced to treat gays equally?

What is the (passively-genocidal) anti-condom-S.T.D.-transmission-enhancement-policy…which affects catholic / non-catholic?

What about those Rwandan priests & nuns who told the homicidal Rwandans where the fleeing Rwandans were, resulting in bulldozed churchs, refugees STILL inside ‘em??
These holy, apostolic clerics are enjoying life sentences…but…like Bernie Cardinal_Princess Law…

Their STILL officially R.C.C.-Clerics!
02:48 AM on 07/18/2012
The Catholic Bishops are suing to keep from having the Church pay for contraception. They lack the ability to prevent anyone from purchasing it themselves. As for homo marriage, the only marriages the Bishops can prevent are those which take place on Church property. They exercise no authority outside of Catholicism. The Church was forced out of the adoption/foster care business due to the impossible to reconcile differences between man's laws and God's law. Your third paragraph was a little over the top, don't you think?
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MRSM117
Unofficial defender of the Catholic faith
06:53 AM on 07/18/2012
Catholics do not acknowledge same sex so called marriage and the Church has every right to speak out about attempts to redefine marriage. I might remind you, it is the Federal government that defines marriage as being between one man and one woman. The Church is merely seeking to uphold that definition. The Bishops are speaking out against the attack on religious liberty which is deliberately being perpetrated against Catholics by the Obama administration. Our President's mentality is it's "my way or the highway". Does that sound like religious liberty to you? The sanctity of human life is being compromised by the imposed HHS Mandate which will provide for contraception, sterilization and abortion-inducing drugs. This is morally unacceptable. Anyone who works understands from the beginning the benefits being provided in health insurance. No one is forcing anyone to work there. If you don't like the benefits you seek employment elsewhere.

Every day missionary priests and religious are subjected to threats and violence because of their belief in Christ. Christianity has always been known for its missionary and charitable work and today, more than ever in recent times it is being attacked and churches are being burned and priests slaughtered. The seal of Holy Orders, like Baptism can never be removed from the soul so please learn something before you make comments.
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pbc1946
Aging Liberal
09:27 PM on 07/17/2012
But... neither is the RCC a totalitarian gulag. We are not living in some mindless state of auto pilot. Human freedom does not end at the doors of the Church. Speaking the truth is never speaking THE truth, remember we are humans, and no amount of red silk, ermine and incense make us always correct. Just look and the history of the RCC, big mistakes were made !!! The Church is a pilgrim church and not a triumphant church, we all are trying to make sense of our lives, as best we can.
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
05:10 AM on 07/18/2012
Igor! Send a summons to Mr 1946, for tomorrow morning at the Inquisition headquarters. He can come with Mr Galileo. And when you're done, go and check the instruments. We may need to order some fresh stakes and some more coal.
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MRSM117
Unofficial defender of the Catholic faith
06:35 AM on 07/18/2012
The Catholic Church, I repeat, the Catholic Church does not change in faith and morals. The Catholic Church is not "run" by mere humans but by the Holy Spirit Who guides the Church. Mistakes can be made by humans but the Church has never changed her position on issues of faith and morals. The Church has consistently believed in the sanctity of human life. Contraception, sterilization and abortion inducing drugs which is provided for in the HHS Mandate is morally unacceptable in Catholicism. To ask Catholic institutions to violate their conscience is reprehensible. No private institution should be asked to do that. It is not as if the Catholic Church is seeking to ban contraception, or that contraception is not readily available anywhere else and free or at a minimal cost. This is nothing more than a tyrannical government imposing its will on the people. How can anyone think this is o.k.?
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sweetlilthing
hurt no one but tell the truth
04:05 PM on 07/17/2012
"what the heck happens when a rabbi challenges a bishop or Roman Catholic leader about his entrenched religious beliefs?" Nothing... The RCC will do nothing. These Nuns will conform. Were you expecting change from the RCC?
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
05:11 AM on 07/18/2012
Nuns need to sue, or declare independence: the men in hats understand money.
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sweetlilthing
hurt no one but tell the truth
12:59 PM on 07/18/2012
Sadly Nuns are trapped, unless they move to another religion. While I'm not a fan of Nuns at least some of their teachings addressed modern issues. The RCC is slowly losing it's grip on Americans. The membership doesn't follow the voting guides and the majority follow their own consciences when it comes to gay rights, birth control and abortion. There's some hope.
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Publius67
03:51 PM on 07/17/2012
As I was at the time, I am grateful to the Rabbi for living up to the calling of his title & teaching. I am only sorry thast so many would rather react with shock that he should speak instead of to the content of it. The Vatican is in dire need of many such wake-up calls....and perhaps a reminder that the religion OF Jesus is something they should be thinking about as well as the religion they have spun around Jesus.
02:17 PM on 07/17/2012
I am a proud Jew. The Rabbi was inappropriate. We wouldn't like it if the Pope condemned the separate seating of men and women in Orthodox shuls, or the bris as unnecessary pain for the infant. let's get our own house in order, and let them worry about their house. Their doctrine is none of our business.
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MRSM117
Unofficial defender of the Catholic faith
04:00 PM on 07/17/2012
As a proud Catholic, I thank you for saying this!
04:08 PM on 07/17/2012
As a proud Catholic... I  thank you as well.
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vivificat
Catholic blogger
09:09 AM on 07/17/2012
Quote: "Holy cow! What kind of a rabbi is bold enough to state opposition to Roman Catholic leadership in a publication?"

I don't know, let me see, one whose opinion on most things is unimportant, clichéd, and irrelevant? Is it surprising that a "earth-loving, justice- seeking, peace-promoting" rabbi would hold such an opinion? Is that unique to this rabbi, or common among other "earth-loving, justice- seeking, peace-promoting" ministers of "progressive" religious bodies. Why is this even considered "news"?
12:12 PM on 07/17/2012
Because it points out the results from rejection of the Vatican II reforms. The reforms would have kept the reactionaries from becoming disconnected from reality and those who live there.
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Meerrinhuff
05:47 AM on 07/18/2012
None of the statements in the actual Vatican II documents have been rejected, just the things that were made up by liberals and then implied were in the documents. Read them for yourself. They are available online. TJC
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vivificat
Catholic blogger
04:34 PM on 08/01/2012
Really? That's interesting. Which Vatican II "reforms" does the rabbi point to? As far as I can read from the documents of Vatican II, most of them have been implemented and I support of all them. What are we talking about here?
08:10 AM on 07/17/2012
Unlike many Rabbis, who reject central theological authority(One told me his fellow Rabbis are there own Popes) the Catholic Church is a central authority, governed by Reason , which is developed by the largest "think tank" ever assembled. The Vatican does not issue an Encyclical that has not been approved by the thousand Bishops who are guided by world wide experience from Central Africa to the great urban Cities. They also have the views of theologians at thousands of Catholic Universities , Religous Orders, and Monasteries.. They are the leaders in for the fight for HUMAN RIGHTS and have identified the killing of innocent Human Beings(abortion) as the greatest Human Rights violation of our time (worse than the Holacaust , slavery, or the denial of equal rights to women). Catholic Bishops speak for the Catholics in America... Non-Catholics often cite devisive actions of extremely minority Catholic viiews.. Catholics are aware of the popularity of contraception, however experience shows that sex outside marraige leads to promiscuity,undermines family life. and is promoted by contraception. Promiscuity outside marraige is the main cause of unwanted pregnancies that result in the Human Rights violation of abortion..The Catholic Church supports family planning in stable families...The Sisters support the theology of the Catholic Church.
The Rabbi is to be commended for working for what he believes in but he wouldn"t stand a chance in debate with those young Bishops , Jesuits and Friars , who guide the Catholics..
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10:59 AM on 07/17/2012
You miss the major fact of the debate. If the authorities you cite would do some history they, and you, would discover that most Roman theology since the writings of Paul are the result of egos, political compromise, Medieval scholasticism, and intellectual arrogance sold as revelation. I may not agree with the rabbi's faith but his reasoning is spot on in every other way.
12:32 PM on 07/17/2012
'most Roman theology since the writings of Paul are the result of egos, political compromise, Medieval scholasticism, and intellectual arrogance'

Give us a clear-cut example.
03:13 PM on 07/17/2012
History shows that the Church leads the way to oppose Human Rights violations like abortion.. It is true that the Church in the early days had to live with Human Rights violations like slavery (which was common in pagan societies in which they existed), It took time to win that battle, and it took time to defeat Hitler. Is there any doubt what the teaching of the Church today is on Human Rights and Civil Rights., even though they live in a pagan culture that legally permits horrors like the holacaust and abortion. . The perjorative labels that you glean from "history" do not change reality today.. Unlike some traditions , the Church does not poll its members in order to arive at a position. It opposes "relatavism" the absence of moral constraints , which is the benchmark of traditions which now call themselves "liberal"( sadly "liberal " once meant free and dignified.). Many "happy families" have heated debates, but the move forward togtther..
12:36 PM on 07/17/2012
To put a finer point on this, the Vatican II council did in fact point out the errors of several encyclicals like those of Pope Leo XIII and if properly implimented with put an end to many such serious errors.

As for your view that the Catholic Church is some one giant happy family is about as close to being delusional as anyone can be without being crazy.

I am all for religious freedom but not so free as to imprison you and me.

They are not in the fight for human rights but only God's rights.

As for abortion, the Chruch has failed to convince their own followers to not have abortions and thus are wanting to conscript the power of government to impose their dogma on others. They instead should be working like the nuns in providing support for those who are pregnant.

Until Vatican II reforms are impliment the Bishops will continue to make preposterious errors such as those in handling sex abuse and those like the case of Sister Mary McBride. The nuns are in the fight for human rights, the reactionaries in control of the Vatican and the Bishops are not.
12:53 PM on 07/17/2012
Helpful insights.
03:38 PM on 07/17/2012
Please refer to my reply to Charles Seivard above. Two of your points refer to "errors" of the Church. Sex abuse resulted from the Churchs (Vatican II) opening its arms to homosexuals. They are God's people. Unfortunately as they came into Church institutions a large number(not all) redefined celibacy as "not marrying" and deny the rules of chastity. Abusers were overwhelmingly homosexuals NOT pedophiles.,who are predators of pre-pubescent children. These abuses go back decades and are not the problem today.(Abuse is more common in other traditions but is news worthy for the Catholic Church " because of its high standards , admitting the truth and deep pockets"
As far a Sr. Mary Mc Bride is concerned , there is no question that she violated signed agreements and changed the character of a Catholic Hospital. . The Bishop felt betrayed, and reacted in my opinion with a drastic action. As I stated in my post, "We Love Our Nuns". His penalty of excommunication was excessive for the offence of a person who had a lifetime working for the Church... It has been (or will be) rescinded.. The Nuns overwhelmingly oppose the Human Rights violation of abortion, consistent with Church teaching.. (Admittedly, many Nuns prefer to work for Social Justice)
03:23 AM on 07/17/2012
If the Rabbi cannot even convince the Orthodox Jews within his own faith to change their attitudes to women, what makes him think he can demand change in the Catholic Church? And seriously, outside of the HuffPo world, no one in the Catholic Church cares about his views....heck, Donohue was the one defending the Church and he isnt even a spokesman for the Catholic Church...
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
02:32 AM on 07/17/2012
A line of wisdom I believe I heard long ago on a Don Bowman presentation went something like, "If you can't be truthful, what's the sense of trying to relate?"
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JMB973
That's what she said!
06:45 PM on 07/16/2012
" We look to our faith leaders to demonstrate the highest level of respect for one another, and model the behavior we are all taught to show for one another..."

What world are YOU living in????