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Ellen Siminoff

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Boys and Girls Interrupted

Posted: 01/19/12 06:47 PM ET

Things couldn't be going more swimmingly in Mrs. Paige Turner's literature class. She's teaching her own personal favorite, A Day No Pigs Would Die -- the ultimate tear-jerker. Mrs. Turner is overwhelmed at how emotionally invested her students have become in the story, and she revels in the impact that the book may have on their love of literature, not to mention their overall outlook on life, as they learn such values as kindness and treating your fellow life-traveler with respect. The kids are taking turns reading paragraphs aloud from the last chapter, and Pinky is just about to become chops, loin and rind. There's nary a dry eye in the schoolhouse, even on the faces of the most cynical youngsters.

But then there's that kid. We parents know him -- Johnny Hooligan. Johnny intentionally engineers a foul noise with his tongue (covering his mouth with his hand so that if he is accused, he can deny guilt.) In fact, every time the name "Pinky" is uttered, he repeats the action, and the intimate connection the class had been sharing of a boy's love for his pet pig is irrevocably shattered. It is an experience more or less emotionally robbed from the other 23 kids in the class. Even after being warned numerous times, Johnny does not desist. No one else is laughing, but Johnny is amused by it enough for all of them.

Finally, the class finishes reading the book and Mrs. Turner excuses her students eight minutes before the bell. Pinky has died. So has the moment she had hoped to share with the class.
This isn't Johnny's first transgression of the kind. He acts out on a regular basis. (The stunt he pulled during a reading of The Lovely Bones the previous semester was particularly offensive.) His parents have been called in a few times, but they never seemed to take much of an active role in improving his behavior, and consequently it hasn't improved. So, because nothing can be done aside from sending him frequently to the principal's office or detention (which alters a delinquent's tendencies as much as a week or two of jail time alters those of a hardened criminal) the teachers relinquish their efforts to turn him around and instead just learn to tolerate him. Or worse, ignore him.

Who benefits? Certainly not the other students. Why must those 23 kids in Johnny's class lose precious learning time while a miscreant (who isn't paying attention or learning anything anyway) is allowed to create all sorts of distractions? Not the teachers. The constant interruptions halt the usual flow of lessons and cut down on the amount of material that they are able to cover. Not even young Mr. Hooligan, who is only hurting himself with his fraudulent flatulence. Looks like it's a pretty sour deal for everyone involved. So why is it allowed to continue?

For the same reason that books are banned from school libraries, or that works of art are taken down from cafeteria walls, this behavior is allowed. There is a pervading fear in schools -- as well as in many other public places -- that someone is going to take offense and make a federal case out of it. Granted, moving a child from one class into another that resembles a special needs track is more potentially rife with controversy than removing a work of literature from a bookshelf, but the thought process is the same.

Administrators are hesitant to give permission to manually weed out the mischief makers because of their fear that the amount and severity of backlash will not be worth it.

They may be right. Parents of rotten eggs don't see them that way. They will make any number of excuses to justify their child's actions so that no one can criticize their parenting skills. OK, fine. But why should I, the parent of a couple of good eggs, have to suffer the consequences of their failings? Shouldn't my children have the right to receive an education uninterrupted by fart sounds?

Regardless of how many feathers it may ruffle, we need to seriously consider other options than merely that of letting the rabble-rousers stay because it's easier than shaking things up. Think about the real cost here. If 23 students each lose 30 minutes of class time every day over the course of a 40-week school year, that's 2,300 hours lost because of disrupting influences. Just imagine how many more pop quizzes might have been given in that time. (This last point will probably not be a very persuasive one among high school students.)

It is a touchy topic, to be sure, but one that deserves our attention. If a student is given numerous warnings and is subject to regular disciplinary action, and still the lesson is not learned, then perhaps they should be placed alongside others of a similar ilk. After all, that's the way things are done out here in the real world, and isn't preparing our children for the real world what we're supposed to be doing anyway?

 
Things couldn't be going more swimmingly in Mrs. Paige Turner's literature class. She's teaching her own personal favorite, A Day No Pigs Would Die -- the ultimate tear-jerker. Mrs. Turner is overwhel...
Things couldn't be going more swimmingly in Mrs. Paige Turner's literature class. She's teaching her own personal favorite, A Day No Pigs Would Die -- the ultimate tear-jerker. Mrs. Turner is overwhel...
 
 
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08:31 PM on 01/25/2012
One more question.

You really couldn't think of anything better than Shmoop?
11:31 AM on 01/25/2012
CONTD

Teachers have to be ahead of the kids, and you can't get in the way. If the parents have problems, tough, they can find another school. You have to be smarter than the people you lead, and you're saying you can't manage it.

Your weak approach results in kids being labelled and medicated instead of learning.

BTW, have you ever SEEN a pig? Some of your kids may have, and you might want to address the issues in the book, instead of trying to keep them as emotional infants. They're in school to grow up, not to validate your mother status.
11:30 AM on 01/25/2012
Oh good grief. Panicked because you don't have control of a what a 6th grader? And need some rules from somebody off-site?

Most events involving humans need on-site judgment, so I won't propose any recipes here - but teachers who can't handle a classroom - or administrators who won't let them - might be better employed elsewhere.

You're upset because some kid is making fart noises in the back & mocking your attempts to get all the kids crying about sausage in emotional lockstep?

ROFLMAO! It's not rocket science. The kid is mocking you, because you've put yourself in that position. Aren't you supposed to be teaching him how to behave, before you teach him to cry about pigs?

Most kids will explore, and if you've picked something silly like crying about pigs, the smart ones will be somewhere else. You talk about this kid wasting others' time, you're doing a pretty good job of wasting their time yourself. This one has no better ideas than sit in the back & make fart noises, and it freezes your brain. You never think there are probably several others smart enough to stay quiet & think what a waste of time you are to be crying about sausage.

CONTD
06:10 PM on 01/23/2012
Sometimes there are three or four of these beasts in the same classroom and nothing ever happen to them. I think that "beasts" might be a bit over the top but I do understand the sentiment.
"Perhaps Johnny's behavior is symptomati­c of something about Johnny that desperatel­y needs attention, not scorn." This type of thinking is the problem. Johnny needs to learn that, sometimes, it's not about what Johnny needs. Sometimes it is what the other 20+ kids in the class need.
"The key to eliminatin­g disruptive behavior to make it "uncool" to the other students." The other way is to make disruptive behavior so unpleasant that even a kid as stubborn as I was back in the day, will get the message.

I send my kids to private school and I can guarantee that Johnny would stop being disruptive after a couple of "visits" to the office.
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Steve Nelson
12:27 PM on 01/23/2012
What an unfortunate posture. Equating a disruptive boy with felons is just awful. Boys are too often acting this way because of education's failure to understand boys. Read Peg Tyre or Michael Thompson rather than this primitive response to a complex issue.

Perhaps Johnny's behavior is symptomatic of something about Johnny that desperately needs attention, not scorn. Rotten eggs and good eggs? Shame on you.
04:42 PM on 01/21/2012
Absolutely. I have had to deal with many students like this over the years. Their classmates, teachers, and the learning environment suffer immensely with them being there. Sometimes there are three or four of these beasts in the same classroom and nothing ever happens to them.
foresure
Brash and Harsh
01:18 PM on 01/21/2012
Part II of II

Admonishing the wrong student for some misdeed that another student commits, would be considered harmless. The action would be supported by the principle.

It is only when a Judge does something really wrong that a higher court will intervene. Once the teachers are not terrified of teaching Huck Finn, and can actually discuss its meaning in context, things would improve.

4. A recognition, that for better or worse, the teacher is THE authority figure in the classroom. That authority not to be questioned, unless clearly abused.

5. It would also be helpful if school boards imposed a dress code on teachers requiring them to dress as if they were going to work in a "downtown office".

6. It would also be helpful if the school board invoked a clear "non-fraternizing" policy regarding relationships between students and adults in the school.

Of course that would not apply to close relatives working the school.

This would, of course create a law suit (Search: Missouri teachers Facebook in the Huffington Post search box).

7. Uniforms for all students in all grades.

None of these "innovations" would cost any money.
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TINA ANDRES
How did this happen?
12:48 PM on 01/22/2012
Lawsuits have already taken care of the uniform deal. We tried for years to have mandatory uniforms, now we have been told that we must completely outfit a student if uniforms are to be required. The word "required" has, in fact, been removed from our language as of this year in my district. This goes for pencils and notebooks as well. I am lucky to work in a school with a very supportive administration but I know that the majority of teachers have been disempowered when it comes to disruptive students. The key to eliminating disruptive behavior to make it "uncool" to the other students. When peer pressure works the opposite way and students discourage bad behavior, at the very least the disruptive student is silenced and may not learn anything but he or she stops disrupting others.
foresure
Brash and Harsh
02:05 PM on 01/22/2012
TINA ANDRES:

Part I

TINA:

I am compelled to fan you because you write sensibly and honestly.

You have also said something that I hadn't heard expressed before".

"The key to eliminatin­g disruptive behavior to make it "uncool" to the other students. When peer pressure works the opposite way and students discourage bad behavior, at the very least the disruptive student is silenced and may not learn anything but he or she stops disrupting others. something that I have not heard, which makes sense".

Can't that be done, by putting the student, presuming s/he is sane, in a small room, with old textbooks, all alone, for the rest of the day, or for a "reasonable period".

Designed properly there could be a number of small rooms supervised by a teacher's assistant. If need be, the walls and doors could be "padded" with gym mats.

Apparently parents have found "time out" to be an effective teaching method.

How about this. If, in the sole judgment of the teacher, the entire, the entire class was "reasonably" well behaved, then the entire class would get a small reward, each and everyone.

Little kids love stickers. Of course the rewards could be adjusted for grade level.

For older ones, something that smells good, or a poster. It would take some thought for the older ones.

To be Continued
foresure
Brash and Harsh
02:12 PM on 01/22/2012
TINA ANDERS

Part II

On the other hand, if a fifteen old feels s/he has been deprived of something because of the bad behavior of another, I would think there would be really intense pressure.

Of course the kids would moan "unfair", but parents have gotten used to that.

The "thinkers" in the education industry would object on the grounds that the method was "draconian" and was actually "collective punishment".

To which I would respond, isn't the new buzz word "collaboration". Aren't team sports a system of collective rewards and disappointments?

The rewards could be timed differently, For the little ones, on the half day, for the high school seniors on the week.

Even if it is something nice the kids are going to get anyway, a one days delay, could be enough to make bad behavior "uncool".

I
foresure
Brash and Harsh
01:15 PM on 01/21/2012
Ms. Siminoff:

Part 1 of II

Thank you for your excellent Blog. It captured, for me, a non-teacher, the despair that teachers feel. If there were such a thing as a five star rating for a Blog, I would give it to you!

A Proposal:

There is a model available to the educational industry to adopt that would greatly alleviate this problem. It would require something that is missing in the education industry.

It would require everyone, from top to bottom to "grow a backbone", and find some courage.

1. The school board to set aside a sum of money each year to quickly settle reasonable lawsuits, and fight frivolous ones. Fighting frivolous suits would probably in the short run cost the school board more.

But:

In many states those who file frivilous lawsuits or reject reasonable settlement, are required to pay the "prevailing party's" attorney's fees.

2. Having made filing law suits against the school board, "less delicious", every school board would adopt the policy, that unless a teacher or administrator has made a "signficant" error, she will be supported.

Offending a student, even unjustly, will not be considered "significant".

3. The model I am proposing is that of the legal system.

The Judge is presumed to have done the right thing, a higher court will support the Judge even if she has made a "harmless error".
11:39 AM on 01/25/2012
To begin with, a teacher must project authority, and that authority should be grounded in their ability to move the class constructively.

You can't go in there looking and smelling like a mouse. Then you need command of the material, and be able to react to the way the kids react to it.

Disruptive kids get excluded. I'm not sure how closely I'd imitate the legal system, but the logic of listening & making decisions & moving on is necessary.

But can we really fail to see that in 30 kids, half are understandably laughing at the way this material is handled?
foresure
Brash and Harsh
12:15 PM on 01/25/2012
jack:

I agree with you. And of course you can't transfer the model of the legal system to the school, but the principle of not undermining your subordinates, is a good one.

Espcially if they have the responsibility of maintaining order, which is dependent on authorority.

I'm not sure exactly what the meaning of your last sentence is.

For a Reply from a successful teacher, who seems to figure out ways to keep order, search the replies by screen name: KIM ANDRES.

It would seem that the top heavy educational bueaucracy does nothing more that undermine the confidence and authority of the classroom teacher.
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GlennWatson
Two million fans
09:20 AM on 01/21/2012
The author has encapsulated the main problem with education perfectly.

Most kids are fine but any classroom can be ruined by one or two bad eggs. And there is almost nothing a teacher can do about it.

Its a darn shame.
08:46 PM on 01/20/2012
Did anyone ever ask Johnny what he'd like to read? Or did they stop to think that there may be a good reason he's acting out? The school scenario described in this article has it all backwards. The teacher is reading her favorite book, making the decision for the students as to how, when, where, and what they'll learn. It should be the other way around. Students should be making most of these decisions with support and guidance from teachers. Johnny's behavior is a symptom of a much bigger problem.
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GlennWatson
Two million fans
09:20 AM on 01/21/2012
But why should the other kids suffer because Johnny has a problem?
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InnovativeEdu
Educator | Author, "Teaching Generation Text"
10:23 AM on 01/21/2012
Why should Johnny be forced to suffer?
05:12 PM on 01/22/2012
Sometimes, the teacher is the authority on what is a good book to read. One of the problems with society today is that kids are growing up thinking that the world has to cater to their desires for them to engage with it in a positive manner. This is high school we're talking about, prime time to acculturate kids into the "ways of the real world." Come college, do you think the Lit 101 professor is going to ask Johnny what he wants to read? No. Come job time, do you think Johnny's boss is going to ask him what he wants to work on? Probably not.

I agree there should be some avenues for student input into their learning, but this does not mean that they get to dictate all the terms. I am all for students getting some choice in what books they read, but those choices are selected by the curriculum staff, so no, you don't get to read Batman comics in American Lit. If Johnny doesn't like what his choices are, then his options are to either play through the pain of reading something he initially does not like, or take a different class.

We teachers do know what we are doing, and sometimes students do not make good choices. I didn't want to read Heart of Darkness, until I read the first chapter. Goodness forbid a teacher opens up a door that students didn't even know existed.
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InnovativeEdu
Educator | Author, "Teaching Generation Text"
08:43 PM on 01/20/2012
Seriously? This teacher labels a student a rotten egg because he doesn't share her passion? She thinks the other kids are interested just because they've been taught to be compliant, play the game and not speak up? Maybe the teacher is the rotten egg for forcing everyone to hear a story that she has chosen rather than one the students have selected. Maybe this student represents the sentiments of others who also have no interest in the book and they are delighted that someone is actually speaking out. Why force a kid to be a part of a class in which he isn't interested anyway? Believe me teacher, with your attitude, that kid probably doesn't want to be there. Have you asked him? This teacher needs to get off her pedestal. She's doing this kid no favor by forcing him to stay in her class. She can do both of them a favor by setting him free.
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GlennWatson
Two million fans
09:21 AM on 01/21/2012
What do you mean set him free.
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InnovativeEdu
Educator | Author, "Teaching Generation Text"
10:26 AM on 01/21/2012
Set him free i.e. not force him to be stuck in a class in which he has no interest.
05:17 PM on 01/22/2012
First of all, most of the time teachers do not choose the books in a Lit. class. They may love some of the books that are on the list, and that is a good thing, but I have rarely seen the teachers making the reading lists.
Second, it is not that Johnny does not share her passion. It is that he expresses this in a way that is a detriment to those students who do, or at least are willing to try to like what the teacher likes. They actually understand that teachers have some knowledge as to what is good literature, and are willing to at least give this book a try. If Johnny disagrees, fine. But when his expression of this impedes others from learning, that is HIS problem, not the teacher's.
Third, teachers don't force students to be in any class, especially in high school. If he wants out of that class, he needs to talk to his guidance counselor.
Last, teachers DESERVE to be on pedestals. We have earned our stripes, and it is a huge problem in our society that we do not put them on pedestals as we do our sports heroes.
06:24 PM on 01/22/2012
No. Teachers do not deserve respect simply for being given jobs as teachers, any more than politicians deserve respect simply by being elected. Idolizing athletes is problematic, but at least athletes are not in a position of power. Teachers, on the other hand, are authority figures and authority figures should NEVER be given respect unless they earn it by showing that they can handle their authority responsibly. Teaching kids to unquestioningly obey their teachers is probably one of the worst lessons that a citizen of a democratic society can possibly learn.
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bcbailey64
06:46 PM on 01/20/2012
Having had to put up with such losers during my time in the K-12 education system, I would love to see them kicked out of school (until they mend their ways of course, and that would involve direct pressure being applied to uncooperative parents ie. everyday dinglenuts misses school his parents are dinged $100. Personally, I'd like to retroactively sue the little miscreants for the damage they caused to my education.
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InnovativeEdu
Educator | Author, "Teaching Generation Text"
10:46 AM on 01/21/2012
Johnny never asked to take this class. He is not interested in this class. He is being forced to listen to a teacher who is boring him with her passions while disregarding his. Johnny could be doing much better things with his time.

Standing up to coercion and having no interest in being forced to do school does not make one a loser. It makes them people like Richard Branson, Steve Jobs, and the majority of students who are frustrated with a school system they find boring and irrelevant.
01:32 PM on 01/21/2012
Right, because most school trouble makers grow up to be millionaire CEOs. Oh please! The vast majority of CEOs excelled throughout school and have college degrees. The vast majority of kids who are "trouble makers" in school grow up to be, for lack of a better word, losers. Impulse control is a huge key to success in life. The Johnnys of the world need to be removed from mainstream classes. They can be home schooled, do online school, or go to an alternative school. Those options would be better for them, and it would be better for everyone else too.
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TINA ANDRES
How did this happen?
01:01 PM on 01/22/2012
And Johnny is going to have a very hard time when he doesn't like certain aspects of his job when he is an adult. Can you honestly say that we should teach our kids to only participate when they are enjoying themselves? Is that how real life works?
03:41 PM on 01/20/2012
Students who are disruptive shouldn't be in class disrupting the other students. I have been on both sides of this one. In 9th grade in DC I took "College Prep Biology". I was bored out of my mind and was mildly disruptive. The teacher came up with a neat solution - I was to come to class every day. If there was a test or lab, I would come in and do it. Otherwise, I could go the the library. I read the book and did everything else cold - no preparation or studying. I got a solid B. Considering, not bad. Easy class.

My grandfather, 100 year ago found his high school classes boring. He worked out a deal - he would turn in the week's homework and then he got to go the library and read. He eventually became a high school chemistry teacher and department head.

If students's aren't interested in the class and are disruptive, get them out. At least let the other students learn.
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GlennWatson
Two million fans
09:23 AM on 01/21/2012
Oh no, its much more fun to disrupt class. This type of kid does not care about other people and neither do his parents
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InnovativeEdu
Educator | Author, "Teaching Generation Text"
10:30 AM on 01/21/2012
Perhaps this kid does not feel cared about by a system forcing him to be in a class he doesn't want to be in. Perhaps the other kids don't want to be forced to be there either and they are happy that he has the courage to speak up when a teacher is teaching without regard to what her students interests are.