Do Liberals "Get It" When it Comes to Fighting Fundamentalism?

Has a secretive, informal network of fundamentalist Christians had undue influence over American policy? Over the summer vacation a newly unveiled Religion Dispatches convened its first round table, resulting in a lively discussion of Jeff Sharlet's new book, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power (Harper, 2008).

Based on article for Harper's magazine entitled "Jesus Plus Nothing," Sharlet crafted his detailed and carefully researched exploration of an informal network of powerful Christians known as "The Family," or "The Fellowship." In Sharlet's words, it's: "a story of two great spheres of belief, religion and politics, and the ways in which they are bound together by the mythologies of America."

Joining RD, along with Jeff were: Randall Balmer, author, Episcopal priest, and professor of American religious history at Barnard College; Anthea Butler, Assistant Professor of Religion at the University of Rochester; and Diane Winston, the Knight Chair in Media and Religion at USC, who has worked as a reporter for several of the nation's leading newspapers.

Sharlet's book fills a significant gap in both scholarship and media. While plenty of time has been spent on mega-churches and the various factions of the religious right, very little work has been done on elite manifestations of religion-related power.

One of the burning questions, addressed at the very beginning of the round table, is: Do liberals "Get It"? That is, do the liberal values of dialogue and compromise actually have any effect when dealing with this powerful network? From the Roundtable:

Too many liberals put their faith in a mythical center, a set of values shared by all. Their commitment to this center is so great, in fact, that they're willing to travel any distance to get there. That's what Christian Right leader Chuck Colson understood when he wrote that he loved "dialogue" with liberals because he simply had to hold his ground and wait for them to come to him.

The discussion ranged over issues like this and was punctuated, unexpectedly, by a parenthetical gesture from one of our panelists. During the course of the round table, a critical review of the book appeared in the Washington Post by Randall Balmer.

Balmer had saved some of his most critical points for the readers of the Post, thus our discussion had a 'sidebar' of sorts. Given the last word, however, Sharlet used his closing argument to respond to Randy's offstage remarks and RD was graced with an exciting and surprise ending. Here's a sample:

Ah, sour grapes! Yes, I got 'em. Not so much because Randy radically misrepresented my arguments in the Post, where I can't respond, while offering far more nuanced arguments of his own only in this smaller and more scholarly roundtable, but because such a dichotomy represents exactly the scholarly/popular divide that allows The Family to slip between the cracks. Amongst scholars, he makes arguments that invite engagement. In the public square, he issues proclamations that do no more than police the borders of respectable knowledge, aka "conventional wisdom."

Enjoy the discussion and by all means join in with comments.

RDRoundtable: Welcome to "The Family"

Comments

[singermuse]

Truth be told, there is no real "common ground" between evangelical fundamentalists and those who think critically, practice their spirituality privately and do not share the fundamentalists' ideology.
The fundies would rather "save" a person than help them eat or have a decent job or a decent life, or if they do help people, there is that unspoken payback such as the classic "soup kitchen sermon" before the homeless get to eat a bite. We may be seeing more of this as we continue our slippery slide towards another "great depression".
I am not ready to park my brain at the door and pick up my crayons.
There are however many "christians with a little 'c'" who do a world of good for a great many people who need it, without foisting dogma on them. These kind of "christians" are easy to dialogue with!

[wagadog]

Yes, American Fascism has come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross, as described in Joe Conason's 2007 book "It Can Happen Here" and as predicted Sinclair Lewis' 1935 classic "It can't happen here."

Loyal Bushies. Monica Goodlings. They'll be gone soon enough, right? Once a democrat is in office, we'll just ask them a few critical questions, establish their incompetence and purge them, right?

Well that's what I thought, too.

Jeff Sharlet's investigative book: "The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power" connects the dots between Conason and Lewis.

From the Publisher's Weekly editorial review on Amazon:

'...at Ivenwald, a Washington-based fundamentalist group living communally in Arlington, Va., ...Sharlet finds a sect whose members refer to Manhattan's Ground Zero as "the ruins of secularism"; intrigued, Sharlet accepts on a whim an invitation to stay at Ivenwald...the stronghold of a widespread "invisible" network...populated by elite, politically ambitious fundamenta­lists;...T­he Family was established in 1935 to oppose FDR's New Deal and the spread of trade unions...it has organized well-attended weekly prayer meetings for members of Congress and annual National Prayer Breakfasts attended by every president since Eisenhower. Further, the Family's international reach... has "forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most oppressive regimes in the world." In the years since his first encounter, Sharlet has done extensive research, and his thorough account of the Family's life and times is a chilling expose.."

[jalyn]

HuffPost's Pick

A war with who? Was it the christian fundies who flew into the Twin Towers? I am a fundie and I never read scripture that says, "Go ye out and get those liberals." If someone who is depressed, oppressed and comes to me for aid, I try to help. I think you are barking up the wrong tree as to who liberals' enemies are. I agree, there is a growing network of fundamentalist church leaders who are straying in this country. But, this is not what Christ taught; the great commission was to spread his teachings to those who never heard, and to baptise whoever wished to accept these teachings. Shouldn't lump everyone with those who pursue religion-related power.

.

[wagadog]

From what I've read about the book, it's an investigation into a specific sect -- not yours, and clearly not representative of your beliefs. That they've made it their business to pursue power rather than to comfort the powerless is, as you say, in conflict with what Christ taught. It would be interesting for both of us to read the book, and then come back here (if the comments aren't closed by then!) and discuss it.

[cylindar]

Dialogue is a rather cheap time buying device. The fact is there is all out war between fundamentalists and liberals period. Liberal types need to understand that fundamentalists will destroy them every chance they can get. That is the nature of the game for them. Liberals wake up you are at war and don't even know it. Liberals need to boycott fundamentalist business owners and government leaders. They need to hurt them economically so that they can go have their Come to me jesus moment", and then figure out that old jesus boy has nothing to do with anything. Fundy's aren't interested in dialogue, they are interested in winning their game.

[Brillig]

Fundamentalists are the Christian TALIBAN- keep women down, don't educate them, and marry them off to old men.

Christian Fundamentalists invented the cheerleader, the Prom queen and by extension the Barbie Doll.

That is why they Love John McCain. His wife is an aging Barbie, and acts as dumb. (BUT SHE IS NOT) She like other fundamentalist wives, help to raise the next generation of bigots.

[dctackett]

I make a point of not buying products produce by the companies of overtly religious people... sometimes you even see that fish symbol on their products.

I also don't let the religious get away with making overtly religous comments around me.

Why do you think the events have been as they have over the past few years... they've been pushing nationalism, the towers are hit, they screw up the economy... that's how those fascist christians take over, push extreme nationalism, push the country into a depression, make all those poor numbskulls rally around their magic super-being and it's representatives on earth.

[montemalone]

When confronting a rabid bible beater, just keep saying "There's no such thing as god" until his head explodes.
The only thing they dislike more than people that won't go along with their hypocrisy, is someone that doesn't pretend to believe.

[MajorKong]

Theocracy? You're soaking in it!

[bander55]

Shake the sand out of your ears. Do you like the word freedom and everthing that insinuates? The freedom to believe what you choose to believe and not what someone else tells you you MUST believe. Hang in there puppy.

[wagadog]

Madge!!!!

[dctackett]

they don't have to be a theocracy, but they are para-fascist.

int he US they've been pushing extreme nationalism, spreading notions of cultural decline, economic depression, anti-union, ending birth-control, cultural and moral superiority, militarism and the militarization of police (police being trained by blackwater, owned and operated by christian fundies, and blackwater being "hired" during katrina, also blackwater going into private intelligence services)... they've been transfering the nations wealth to their private pockets, the War, the bloated budget, the bail out, rallying against a foreign enemy...

they've been pushing for a more powerful president, after all, if you think the universe is run as a monarchy, then how could you think that a republic is a superior form of government.

these fundies have a "by any means necessary" mentality... if that's lying, cheating, vote-fixing, murdering... doesn't matter, because you're doing it for the glory of god.

they've basically held a controlled­/semi-cont­rolled hold on the government, do you think they'll allow themselves to lose it?... if they're that close, they'll just take it.

[bander55]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been saying for years that something was very wrong with this country. More and more religion was playing a major role in politics and no one seemed to notice and if they did, it was to buy into the "values" issue. Ugh!

I went to the Round Table link and read the entire transcript and then copies it. I will no read Sharlet's book.

This is a war. It is a war we must win, or the last two hundred and some years have been a complete waste of time. Can you imagine what the rest of the world would think if we actually did become a theocracy? These people will not leave it there. Maybe this is what the term "the world view" means to both Palin and McCain.

[Indieguy]

Fight terrorist where they are, not where they're not. Afganistan/Pakastan yes. Iraq no.

[DuPageDem]

The myth of compromise and center, lead by the DLC Republicrats, is exactly what's wrong with the Democratic Party. It's why Dems have caved in on every major Bush program, including the present fat-cat criminal subsidy proposal. There is no center. There's Constitutional and unconstitutional, there's resonable and unreasonable, there's right and wrong. Until Dems stand up for what they claim to believe, they will continue to fail.

[dctackett]

that's exactly their tactic... never give in and let the dems eventually give up... then if dems are in power they try to include the repubs, who will still just fillibuster until they get their way.

[drblack]

Religious extremists...(who have nothing to do with anything spiritual,it is all about power and dominance) have always been a danger to the Freedom Of allpeople.
There is no difference between the Taliban,Osama Bin Laden and other Islamic Extremists and Christian Extremists like John Hagee,Pat Robertson, Rod Parsley etc.
All fanatics are dangerous. Fanatics who think god talks to them and that they are one of the special ,chosen representatives of god are especially dangerous.
They are insane because they have rejected reason for faith.
They are dangerous because they will do ANYTHING to gain power over people and will resort to extreme violence if someone of real goodness gets in their way.
The christian extremists have not been too violent in modern America because they have been able to gain money and power without resorting to terrorism. This could change at any time.
All people who value Freedom and who have compassion will do their utmost to stop this kind of fanatic.
When spirituality is a personal experience it can be uplifting and transcendent, when it becomes a quest to convert and subvert and force everyone else to "fall in line' it is the most dangerous force in the human psyche.

[jay1975]

"There is no difference between the Taliban,Osama Bin Laden and other Islamic Extremists and Christian Extremists like John Hagee,Pat Robertson, Rod Parsley" So just how many car bombs and suicide bombers are Christians responsible for these days? You really have no idea what is going on in the world, do you? You should hear what militant Muslims preach, teach and do. Watch their Imam's praying for Allah to kill all non-believers and encouraging attacks on innocent civilians. See their children praying to grow up to be suicide bombers. You are a fool if you think Christian fundamentalists and Muslim fundamentalists are anything alike. Your Rosie O'Donnel argument falls short when you actually compare and contrast.

[DuPageDem]

David Koresh, Tim McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Jeff Fitzhenry, Rachelle Shannon, Jim Jones. All 'Christians,' all killers. Then there's the little problem of centuries of death and enslavement perpetrated by nations in the name of Christ.

[Indieguy]

Ideology can be more dangerous than bombs. It's an attack on the mind, not the body.

[Brillig]

That is exactly what Christian extremists do as well. It was not so long ago that Southern Baptists were preaching the inferiority of the black man and HOODING up at night to tar and feather uppity ni****s!

This weekend these same Southern Baptist fundamentalists preached to their congregations telling them "NOT TO VOTE FOR BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA"

They are definitely the Taliban of the USA...and they will do worse, as long as public opinion in America seems to be "it can't happen here"

Christian fundamentalists do pray for all Muslims to be exterminated...they just pray against their 'enemies". Do you believe that does not mean their neighbor or Muslima?

[dctackett]

really, there is a difference... the Taliban live in the Third World, these Christians don't. Remember the KKK?... back when the US was less developed, they were like the Taliban. It's the tactics that are less acceptable in the modern US... they do still happen, abortion clinic bombers and shooters, gay murders, etc...

[mommadona]

Well, if the hot air factor of that discussion has anything to do with the "masses" understanding the real, and very deeply entrenched threat to our society...gooood grief.

Don't these people ever talk in complete sentences without a lot of "buzzwords­"?????????­??????

It was like slogging thru a lecture with a fly buzzing in the air....

DANGER, DANGER, WE HAVE A RELIGIOUS FANATIC PROBLEM BASED ON FASCISM AT THE DEEPEST LEVELS OF OUR GOVERNMENT AND SOCIETY - LET'S WEED THEM OUT AND EXPOSE THEM AND GET RID OF THEM AT EVERY LEVEL.

There.
You're welcome.