Frank Schaeffer

Frank Schaeffer

Posted: August 13, 2008 03:36 PM

God Against Obama: Dobson, Osteen, Corsi, the Evangelicals Strike Again

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Evangelicals have a problem: they want to involve themselves in politics -- for instance by praying that the Obama speech at the Democratic convention is rained out, as James Dobson of Focus On the Family called for. Some evangelicals are embarrassed by such antics. What can they do? Nothing because their theology acknowledges no central authority. Evangelicals don't "do" structure. They don't do government, or bishops or tradition. They just do "me" and "I" never we. So their individualistic and narcissistic village idiots-Dobson, Robertson, Osteen etc.-are in charge by default.

The whole point of Evangelical Christianity is a consumerist-oriented do your own thing approach to Jesus. This is a departure from historical Christianity centered on a liturgical tradition that had to do with faith lived in community and beliefs defined by tradition, not the individual pastor standing in front of the congregation holding forth according to whim. But evangelical "worship" is nothing but grandstanding. It's all about the sermon and the pastor's personality. I know. I was once one such "personality," Evangelical big-time flash-in-the-pan leader egomaniac, until I got out in the mid 80s.

Evangelicals reject all traditions and structures, other than their very own personalized interpretation of the Bible, so there is no there, there to appeal to. Evangelicals can't police themselves or call one of their own a nut for the same reason that the village idiot smearing himself with excrement can't point the finger at another idiot wearing his pants on his head and call him crazy. Each has a "personal relationship with Jesus." So maybe Jesus told that guy to put his pants on his head!

Evangelicals get direct messages from God. So who needs tradition, let alone government? That is why Evangelicals are opposed to all structure. They hate government, and they hate the idea of bishops telling them what it means to be a Christian. They hate the idea of health care for all that might involve someone (other than voices in their heads) telling them what to do. And they want the "right" to own guns, raise kids on myths and own that SUV and believe that more drilling for oil will bring down the price of gas. They also want God to speak directly to them, never mind a community of faith. And God seems to tell them weird stuff. So today's crazy person is tomorrow's best selling Rick Warren or Victoria and Joel Osteen. And how can they be crazy? Look how big their churches are! They measure up to the only real Evangelical creed-the ability to make money and be successful in commercial terms.

Evangelicalism is a series of personality cults masquerading as religion. (As I demonstrate in detail in my book CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All -- Or Almost All--Of It Back.) That's because Evangelicals say they believe in "sola scriptura" in other words the Bible only. That works out fine until they start arguing about biblical interpretation. Each pastor and individual becomes their own pope. That turns pastors into nothing but glorified entertainers, wherein the hottest ones pull the biggest congregations. Success-measured in attendance and dollars-becomes the metaphor for spiritual wisdom. Dobson rakes in millions, so God must be on his side! Joel and Victoria Osteen have 40,000 members of their Houston "church" so they must be sane, even if co-pastor Victoria allegedly assaulted a flight attendant over a spilled drink and paid the fine to make the incident "go away."

The Historic Church by contrast never held the Bible up as a magic book that could solve all your problems but rather regarded the Bible as just one element of a liturgical tradition based on community, worship and participation. It never was about the hyped-up spoken word in the mouths of hyped-up "personalities," it was about community. It never was about grandstanding entertainment, but about a liturgy that was the same wherever you went within Christendom; up until the church split in 1054, into Western and Eastern churches and then the later fracturing of the Reformation followed by the era of Protestant chaos and lastly American-style Evangelical every-man-for-himself insanity.

So ... when some fruitcake like a James Dobson comes along and his organization calls for rainmaking to spoil the Obama speech, or the egomaniacal cult leader Victoria Osteen co-pastor of the biggest mega sect in Houston, allegedly assaults an airline flight attendant, there's not much other Evangelicals can do who are embarrassed by their pet-buffoon-of-the-moment, other than to wring their hands. That's because Evangelicalism is really just another version of American individualism and the entertainment industry wherein "freedom" is interpreted as the right to be a consumer and choose one's favorite products from ski mobiles, jet skis, a trip to the Bahamas, a new-car or joining a the local mega church of the moment. Victoria Osteen today, Rick Warren yesterday, whatever wanders in tomorrow, with a book deal and nice way of talking.

Evangelicals can't criticize other Evangelicals' idiocy. After all with a few exceptions, they are all waiting for Spaceship Jesus to take them away, have declared evolution a lie, are anti-culture, art and life, and don't believe in global warming, are still saying that Iraq was behind 9/11, and want to attack Iran with what is left of our overstretched military that their born-again, Evangelical Low IQ frat-boy in the White House systematically has put at risk.

Since the Evangelical right wing movement cannot speak with a prophetic (let alone single) voice, because it has become the consumer/entertainment culture, it's left with turning itself into a public joke and/or nuisance much as a spoiled three-year-old at a birthday party will insist on getting attention by throwing pieces a birthday cake across the room. So Evangelicals have played spoiler and (with a few notable exceptions such as Richard Cizik) led the charge against the environmental movement, against doing anything about global warming, against reforming health care, against caring for our military and now against Senator Obama. They are the people turning the anti-Obama screed Obama Nation into a national best seller, and never mind it's by the same proven opportunistic "Swift Boat" liar -- Jerome R. Corsi -- who was totally discredited for his lies in the hatchet hate job he did on John Kerry.

The Evangelicals are accustomed to supporting liars. They supported George W. Bush again and again because he played footsie with them on abortion, Jesus, and gays. And now most Evangelicals are out to stop Obama, America's best chance for a fresh start in a world grown understandably sick of us.

The Evangelical mask is wearing thin. Sure, there are some Evangelicals who want change but for the most part the fools that put George W. Bush in the White House are now reduced to trying to get Jesus to rain out Obama. That's because they have no answer for the America they have betrayed.

Evangelicals are reduced to throwing fistfuls of "cake" instead of answering uncomfortable questions such as: why have you Evangelicals supported the torture of prisoners of war? And why have you Evangelicals led the charge on defending a rape-the-earth Republican Party in hock to the oil companies?

With no answers, better to just try and rain on the other guy's parade.

Frank Schaeffer is coauthor of HOW FREE PEOPLE MOVE MOUNTAINS-A Male Christian Conservative and a Female Jewish Liberal On A Quest For Common Purpose and Meaning. He is also author of CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back

Follow Frank Schaeffer on Twitter: www.twitter.com/frank_schaeffer

Evangelicals have a problem: they want to involve themselves in politics -- for instance by praying that the Obama speech at the Democratic convention is rained out, as James Dobson of Focus On the Fa...
Evangelicals have a problem: they want to involve themselves in politics -- for instance by praying that the Obama speech at the Democratic convention is rained out, as James Dobson of Focus On the Fa...
 
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Bingo, Frank Shaeffer! Your words ring true.

More questions for the Evangelical America-Wreckers:

1) If you hate authority and hierarchies, and love independence so, why do so many individual Southern Baptist Convention member pastors and congregations conform to the SBC's politically radical right neo-conservative party line? What, are you just a bunch of sissies who jump when these big shots say frog? Why have the handful of dissident , independent SBC leader voices been forced out?

2) Look at your criteria for godliness, and "being led by God", which boils down NOT to John 3:16, but to opposing abortion. Why would one's stance on abortion trump murder of adults (waging war under false pretenses, among others), or any of the other, famously un-prioritized 10 Commandments?

3) Given his behavior these last years, why wouldn't George W. Bush qualify as "of the Devil"? Why couldn't he or Dick Cheney even be the Anti-christ?

4) And, if you now admit you were wrong about the godliness of George W. Bush & his associates, why should any Christian believe you about your current divinely-inspired exhortations for voting choice and political direction? For that matter, why should anyone believe you yourself are "of God" any more than anyone else? Why couldn't you, too, be "of the Devil", along with Bush and Cheney?

Crazy-sounding questions along evangelical "fault lines", but ask them loudly and often, and watch the Godly Right crumble as a political force.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 AM on 08/14/2008
- lthuedk 1 I'm a Fan of lthuedk 1 47 fans permalink
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Please don't waste reason and logic on minds dead set against nuance and independent thinking. Fundis have and forever shall be used by authoritarians for their uniformity of mind of compliance to authority, both prized by the most extreme totalitarians.

http://www.light-to-dark.com/t_equals.html

They will mindlessly, dutifully, and stubbornly vote for the entity of highest, most brutal authority they have before them because they live in a state of fear. It's why they're known as eye4eyes. They are ideal fascist symbionts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 08/14/2008

It's not reason or logic (at least as we know them), and it's not wasted, Ithuedk.

It's a big mistake for those who would oppose their political power to throw hands up and declare them beyond reach, and refuse to learn about their mindset and to learn to speak their language.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 08/18/2008
- MarciaJ720 I'm a Fan of MarciaJ720 10 fans permalink
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I believe any church that says one iota about politics should have their tax exempt status removed - immediately.

That would help remove politics and religion.

But religion controls the masses as does fear (which is also a big part of religion).

People who follow so blindly, such as the Bush supporters, are simply gullible and easily influenced. The question is how to get them to be influenced with true Christian morals and not the hypocritical ones we have in place now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 AM on 08/14/2008

Do you think black churches like Obama's Trinity Baptist should lose their tax-exempt status or should that censure be reserved for the pro-Bush churches?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 AM on 08/14/2008
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What's so difficult to understand about what he said?
All of them... And I agree wholeheartedly. It wouldn't make a bit of difference to Obama or any honest leader. They are not there to be get their Jesus fix, a good leader is their to worship and have their faith lifted. Period.

Don't even begin to try to think Obama would stoop to politics through the pulpit, like right wingers have done. Many of us Americans could never be that hollow, or expect our leaders to be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 08/14/2008
- pvernier I'm a Fan of pvernier 9 fans permalink
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pro-Bush Churches ???
Now that is scary "The United Church of Bush"
Invading one country after another for God

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/14/2008
- lewes17266 I'm a Fan of lewes17266 9 fans permalink
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No church should be used for political reasons. A pastor should preach the Gospel. I think a pulpit should be kept holy.
Obama's pastor abused his position of power and trust. Obama said he never heard that kind of rhetoric while in worship and he disassociated himself with that church and with that pastor when he heard those words. McCain is guilty also of a similar hypocrisy because he spoke the truth about the "agents of intolerance" only to later seek out the endorsement of Hagee who is a grand teacher of prejudice and hate. I do not think either of our candidates are genuinely interested in faithfuls, only in their votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 08/14/2008

MarciaJ, you hit the nail on the head about removal of tax exempt status for politicking from the pulpit.

What's needed is a clandestine army of freedom-loving, patriotic volunteer whistle-blowers wired for sound under their Sunday best, infiltrating services across America and gathering evidence on these pompous panty-waist pretenders.

I've heard preachers threaten their congregation with burning in Hell forever after they die, just for making the wrong voting choice.

That is just so wrong, and so un-democratic. It's as un-American as Communism or Nazism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 AM on 08/14/2008

Marical720, to a certain degree I can agree with you. However we have to remember that in many respects Jesus (for Christians) Moses (for Jews) and Mohammud (for Muslims) were in many ways political figures because they were fighting the powers that be. They were fighting how the powers of their time who were mistreating the people they led. The difference is that they did so in a way that worked to build community, while the work of many in the far right destroys community.

I thank Frank for his marvelous essay, but I would caution all of us to not put all evangelicals in one basket. Jim Wallis of Sojourners considers himself an evangelical, and he is a voice I greatly respect . The ones that Frank is talking about are ones who I equate with the negative aspects of the Pharisees and Saducees of the first century, the ones whom Jesus was often clashing with. While Rome ruled at that time they gave the Jewish leaders great power in order top keep the peace, and the Jewish leaders of the first century wielded that power heavily deciding who was good and who was bad. Isn't this the kind of talk we hear coming from the people that Frank talks about, who is good and who is bad?

Sorry I went on so long.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 08/14/2008
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I second that motion and amend it to tax ALL churches, period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 08/14/2008

Why stop there. The whole exempt organization thing is out of hand. As a Christian, I would feel comfortable without a tax deduction or special breaks for churches. Let's do the same for all exempt groups and foundations. The government playing judge and jury over what benefits the public good is a power to act arbitrarily. Tax them all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 08/14/2008

Ezekiel 16:49-50

Behold,
this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom,

pride,

fullness of bread,

and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters,

neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

And they were haughty,

and committed abomination before me:

therefore I took them away as I saw good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 08/14/2008

uh oh ..... if OrleansCatalan is correct, then there's a RECKONING on the way.
-- -(thank you for this passage ... which I will suggest to the righteous I encounter)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 08/14/2008
- jaycasey I'm a Fan of jaycasey 2 fans permalink

The evidence in the Osteen trial seems to indicate that she did not assault a flight attendant so the fact that you flatly state that she did causes me to discount your entire essay. If you can't get that right then how can we trust anything else that you say?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 08/14/2008
- KHAAANNN I'm a Fan of KHAAANNN 38 fans permalink

Look, I KNOW you Bible-Thumpers only see and hear what you WANT to see and hear, but he said ALLEGEDLY, O.K? Here is a direct cut-and-paste (you, know, like you do with the RNC "Talking Points" you get emailed daily)
"pastor of the biggest mega sect in Houston, allegedly assaults "
There, see?
No?
I thought not.
Remember, "When you talk out loud to God, that is called Prayer. When God talks out loud to you, that is called Schizophrenia".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 AM on 08/14/2008
- 2bad I'm a Fan of 2bad 16 fans permalink

The FACTS indicate Ms. Osteen was fined $3000 by the FAA for interfering with a flight crew. The lawsuit by the flight attendant is another matter. You need to check the facts yourself before mouthing-off!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 08/14/2008
- lewes17266 I'm a Fan of lewes17266 9 fans permalink
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I do not like that showtime style of worship either and I have my doubts about such wealthy Christian celebrities, but this really does look like a money-grab. I doubt Brown will walk away with anything.
This essayist has witnessed the undermining of democracy and that is what he writes about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 AM on 08/14/2008

Its all bout show me the money.

Where do u think the money with which they live the life style they do live come from?

No body ever talks about what their incomes are and where they come from.

If you look in to their finances which we all know is huge giving their life styles,then try to find out where the money comes from,believe me,some people will never again go to certain churches.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 08/14/2008

I think everyone knows where their enormous wealth comes from; it comes from the 99% of the congregation from their tithes (10% of their income). If they only earn $15,000 a year, thats to bad. We all realise that if their little children need some new cloths to go back to school, that is much less important than giving the Osteens and wealthy evangelical preachers what they are due. To god those kids should learn to work for themselves. Stop complaining kids, god will take care of you in the future. Get over it!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 AM on 08/14/2008

Frank, you make great points, and I enjoy reading you. But if you still beleive in god, or any kind of "watch maker" of the universe, you have a lot of thinking ahead of you. Good luck.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 08/14/2008
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Religion is poison. Religion relies on complete ignorance. Religion is slavery for the weak minded, and corporate wealth for church leaders/ thieves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 08/14/2008
- Alecki I'm a Fan of Alecki 2 fans permalink

I am a Christian and there is not way would vote for Obama.

Farrakhan the anti Semetic leader, Reverend Wright and his hateful racist remarks, Father Pflaeger and his pathetic sermons.........all friends of Obama........are Americans asleep?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 AM on 08/14/2008
- Waltb31 I'm a Fan of Waltb31 28 fans permalink
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Hagee, Parsley, all racist evangelicals. Or in your "Christian" world it's alright to be a white racist?
Right. You are not a true Christian, if you support McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 AM on 08/14/2008
- CitizenJ I'm a Fan of CitizenJ 8 fans permalink

You weren't supposed to pay so close attention. These types don't like to talk about reality.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 AM on 08/14/2008

Actually, Rev Wright is NOT racist and Father Pflaeger spoke some truth about this country about what Rev Wright actually does...which is continue the tradition of working within and helping one's community...not something you evangelicals come close to understand­ing....whi­ch is why, I guess, you believe he's so "evil" or "racist". if you had bothered to really listen to what these men said...well, nevermind...closed evangelical minds rarely understand concepts like community service and helping others...

as for Farrakan, well, he IS amerika's bogeyman, so whatever I say about him will not be believed anyways...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 08/14/2008
- ladyfractal I'm a Fan of ladyfractal 110 fans permalink
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So out of sheer curiosity, you won't vote for McCain because HE is associated with anti-semitic, racist pastors who, along with all their other lovely traits, also believe that Islam (meaning Muslims) should be wiped from the face of the map AND that homosexuals should follow close on their heels. Or is that fundamentally different?

Now, don't for a *second* retort with "well, you have to look at ALL their sermons" because unless you have something interesting to tell us, you base your ENTIRE opinion about Obama based on less than 2 minutes of sermons. The Wright clip is all of about 45 seconds and you reduce his ENTIRE pastoral life down to those 45 seconds. I doubt you could quote me a full paragraph of his sermons. The same applies to Father Pflaeger. If you can quote me a fully paragraph of material that he said, I'd be shocked. So if we have to understand Hagee et. al. in the context of their entire ministry what is it, precisely, that is so different about Wright or Pflaeger that 90 seconds of soundbite clips on YouTube tells us *everything we need ever know about these men and their character*?

So, Alecki, if you truly have the courage of your convictions *convince* the rest of us why it's different. Be as detailed as your clearly prodigious intellect allows you to be.

Cheers
LF

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 08/14/2008
- lewes17266 I'm a Fan of lewes17266 9 fans permalink
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Alecki, I respectfully challenge you or anyone who has the heart of a Christian to go over to Townhall.com like I did and read Coulter, Medved, Novak and others and be sure to read the comments too. I was shocked into the reality - I had bought the lie that the Republican party was the Christian party.
Visiting Townhall is how I began to recognize where I truly belong. I wanted no part of that cold, hard-hearted group of people with such hateful attitudes toward others. They focus on specific sins and enlarge them and turn them into political issues. They use scripture for its rules and laws and conveniently ignore scripture for its heart for sinners, sufferers, the hungry, the hopeless and the helpless. They teach hate and prejudice. They engage in scandalmongering. They are legalists. I am not like that.
Thanks to Townhall I realized I did not belong in the Republican party anymore, if I ever really did. I am no longer a Republican but I am still a Christian. I am a Democrat without a doubt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 08/14/2008
- rwt1138 I'm a Fan of rwt1138 12 fans permalink

I find this both illuminating and depressing. These people have, for better or worse, become a significant influence on policy, both foreign and domestic. So how do you counter the evangelical movement effectively?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:18 AM on 08/14/2008
- Whinger I'm a Fan of Whinger 46 fans permalink
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Christ didn't involve himself in the politics of the situation in his day!

Mortal mean and women of the cloth should walk in his footsteps and not interfere!

If they do not, they can only be seen as anti-Christ.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:30 AM on 08/14/2008
- Beckyjo I'm a Fan of Beckyjo 3 fans permalink

I don't believe God is interested in the politics of America. He is interested in winning our souls, one by one. Our allegiance is to Him, and we should not be too upset with the everyday politics of our nation. I love our country, and always try to vote for the best government offered to us, but I am amused by the politicians calling on God and pretending to know that He is on their side. This is too silly for words. The final destination of our souls should be our main concern. Politics just confuses the issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 08/14/2008

Yeah, that's what the magical super being responsible for the creation of the entire universe is interested in; "Boy I sure hope that I win that soul in little Beckyjo's belly, I don't know what I would do without it!" Then again, that distraction might explain all the f-d up stuff that's been going on lately. More likely though, the inmates have taken over the asylum.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 08/14/2008
- ladyfractal I'm a Fan of ladyfractal 110 fans permalink
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beckyjo:

The idea that some invisible sky-daddy friend that no one can see or otherwise detect is 'interested' in anything and we should concern ourselves with this entity's interests is too silly for words.

Cheers
LF

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 08/14/2008
- dadw5boys I'm a Fan of dadw5boys 278 fans permalink
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Since 1968 the world had endeared an attack from the corporations and parts of the U.S. Government. For far too many years they have thrown around words like Regime Change or Leaders Approved of by the USA. They have used the Wolrd Bank to put small countrys under their thumbs.

It is time for change. No wahere in the Constitution is there any allowances for the use of the U.S. Government to export fear and control so U.S. Corporations can rule in other countries.

Going Gloable was the most arggressive economic statement the U.S. had ever made to the world. It sounded nice but at it's heart is meant the Corporations and the U.S. Government were comming to your country looking for any and all raw materials to exploit !

Is that what you want to continue? The rest of the world must respond in kind if you do ! This is no different than spending time, money and effort on weapons systems devolpment and expansions of the military. Other country threatened by this must respond.

If we back off from these aggressive actions and fight to make sure country like Boliva are allowed to devolpe and control how the natural resources of their country are best used to benifit the citizens of Boliva instead of some Corporation then maybe the USA will not be hated so much. But it will take change and we must vote for that change now !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:04 AM on 08/14/2008
- GrainOSand I'm a Fan of GrainOSand 269 fans permalink
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From American Idol to American Pastor, from Survivor to Conniver, from Flava of Love to I Need to Suck Your Blood, or from Real World to Steal World -- the commercialization or productizing of religion is a concern for the true believers, is that the partial gist of this story? Reverend (send me your money and I will send you a prayer cloth) Ike existed in the 70s, so today's get your money for nothing crop does not surprise. God is validated via a long look inside not via a long con outside. Good people of faith exist as do charlatans professing faith -- yet committing crimes against -- or distorting faith. I was told to ignore the practitioners and to follow the spirit (principles), which is the word. True mediation on that which grants life reveals what it does. For me that meditation has revealed the power of love and the possibilities inherent in unity based on love. All else has become a distortion or is a poor implementation of God’s plan for humankind (present day America is a good example). The evangelicals cited in the piece seem to betray what they preach. I will not judge them for if they are impure in what they profess then their punishment shall be much harsher than anything I can muster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:08 AM on 08/14/2008

Way to go Shaeffer... on point once again. Keep em coming...

~bh

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:59 AM on 08/14/2008


Evangelicals never learn do they!!!

Kirchenrat Leutheusser: Christ Comes to Us in the Person of Adolf Hitler

The word "German" is God's Word! Whosoever understands this is released from all theological conflicts. This is German: return home to Germany and leave behind egoism and your feelings of abandonment. ...Christ has come to us through the person of Adolf Hitler. ...Hitler has taken root in us; through his strength, through his honesty, his faith and his idealism we have found our way to paradise.

- Kirchenrat Leutheusser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 AM on 08/14/2008
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The worst thing about such popinjays is that they somehow deem themselves to be fundamentalist, but are unwilling to sacrifice the impurities of contemporary society that waters down scripture. It's due to the fact that they are cowards at heart, and are unwilling to completely part ways with society, unlike the Amish.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 AM on 08/14/2008
- BCubedReg I'm a Fan of BCubedReg 6 fans permalink

I think you're missing the point. What Schaeffer is trying to hint at is that this is a collective group of low IQ indiviuals concealing their ignorance in a blanket of so called religion but with the power en masse to force the continued political spiral into the abyss of this nation. They supported Bush twice. How bright can they be?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 AM on 08/14/2008
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