Maher vs. Obama -- Score One For the President

Bill Maher has decided to straighten out President Obama regarding health care, and the economy. I know no more about those subjects than anyone else, but one way we judge what people say is by looking at what they have said about subjects we do know something about. I learned quite a bit about Maher by watching his movie Religulous and listening to his commentaries on religion since then. That is something I know about.

As I explore in my chapter on Maher in my forthcoming book, Patience with God: Faith for People Who Don't Like Religion (or Atheism),Maher's "critique" of religion is a unique study in ignorance. I presume Maher knows about as much about health care and economics as about religion.

As readers of my books and blogs know I'm one of the harshest critics of American religion, given that I was raised by an evangelical leader, became one myself and quit. I think the right wing of evangelical American religion is a threat to our democracy. That said, Maher doesn't get religion.

Maher's Religulous, provided the atheist version of a church-going experience.
In a series of interviews, Maher set up pastors, evangelists, political leaders, and assorted other flakes and actors (these last at a religious theme park) to look their worst. Maher's questions were those one might expect from a literal-minded, dim-witted ten-year-old stuck in Sunday school who was trying to annoy his teacher into throwing him out. The questions ranged from "How can you believe in a talking snake?" to "How could Jonah have lived in a fish?" to "How can God hear the prayers of everyone at once?" (To which one answer might be, if Google can do it, why not God?)

When approaching the biblical narrative through his handpicked interviewees (and how he edited their comments), Maher didn't seem to "get" allegory, let alone literary imagination or the results of religious faith in ordinary people's lives. For instance he seemed to think that religion, and Christianity in particular, is only about literal belief in the various biblical stories. It's not. It never has been.

Yes, there have been literalistic fundamentalists shaping religion through a hard-edged fundamentalist "thread" running through Jewish and Christian history. Yes, many Christians following this literal-minded thread have done terrible things. Yes, the Jewish and Christian faiths are full of such people today. What Maher ignored is that there has been a parallel tradition, another thread, running alongside the literalistic tendency he caricatures. And here's the irony -- given today's topic -- President Obama is himself a great example of the more enlightened thread of faith.

To ignore the open and questioning tradition and to dwell only on the fundamentalist thread is disingenuous, or in Maher's case more likely simply ignorant. It's as if Maher had made a documentary on medicine and concentrated solely on the experiments done on duped prisoners and so forth, while ignoring Jonas Salk and his discovery of polio vaccine or the early African American leaders in nursing, such as the outstanding Mary Eliza Mahoney, who was the first black professional nurse in America.

Maher seemed unaware that there are intelligent contemporaries of his who are deeply religious and who have spent lifetimes thinking about faith in God in ways that are far from the absolutist verities of (mostly) North American evangelical/fundamentalism Maher set up to knock down. For instance, Maher ignored the late John Updike. (Updike was alive and well when the movie was being made.) Maher might also have interviewed then Senator, now President, Obama.

Had Maher interviewed Obama, he could have asked him about Obama's 2006 lecture on religion and public policy, delivered at the "Call to Renewal" event sponsored by the evangelical Sojourners group.

On that occasion, Obama described his faith. He also talked about how faith should or should not impact policy making. Obama castigated the elements of the secular community (people just like Maher) for being short-sighted in their anti-religious views.

As Obama said:

At worst, there are some liberals who dismiss religion in the public square as inherently irrational or intolerant, insisting on a caricature of religious Americans that paints them as fanatical, or thinking that the very word 'Christian' describes one's political opponents, not people of faith...

I speak with some experience on this matter. I was not raised in a particularly religious household... It wasn't until after college, when I went to Chicago to work as a community organizer for a group of Christian churches, that I confronted my own spiritual dilemma...

That's a path that has been shared by millions upon millions of Americans... It is not something they set apart from the rest of their beliefs and values. In fact, it is often what drives their beliefs and their values. And that is why that, if we truly hope to speak to people where they're at - to communicate our hopes and values in a way that's relevant to their own - then as progressives, we cannot abandon the field of religious discourse..."

Maher's attempt to put religious belief in its place only reinforces the fact that for most people, one belief system is always replaced by another. In an act of unintended self-parody at the end of his movie, Maher preaches a fiery sermon against religion, even begging moderate religious believers to abandon their faiths and convert to his point of view.

Like some old-time evangelist, Maher wants to save us from his version of hell via his version of a born-again experience. It's Maher's way or the Apocalypse. Where have I heard that before? It turns out Maher is just another fundamentalist sure he has all the answers.

Maher is as unthinkingly pro-atheist as he is ant-religious. In 2008 Maher asked Richard Dawkins -- who Maher worships -- about Dawkins' book The God Delusion. Dawkins said little about the book's content but exclaimed, "It's sold a million and a half copies!" Then Maher, like an enthusiastic puppy scampering around a big dog, yelped, "And now it's in paperback it will be even more available!"

Maher paused to take a breath then added, "I'm your biggest fan!" Then Dawkins (slipping into his rock star/guru mode) explained that he has so many fans because "I think people are getting a bit fed up with other people thrusting their imaginary friends down their throats."

Prompted by Maher, Dawkins also explained one of his other big ideas.

"There is a scale of One to Seven of atheism," said Dawkins, "but I'm only a Six on my scale." Dawkins laid out the details of the Atheism Sincerity Scale. "A One is a complete believer in God and a Seven is a total disbeliever."

Something was bothering Maher, and he asked, "Why are you only a Six? Why aren't you a Seven?"

Dawkins didn't miss a beat; "As a scientist I can't definitely commit to anything, including that there are no fairies!" Big laugh and cheers from both Maher and his audience. I think I actually heard Maher squeal.

The intellectually rigorous Dawkins/Maher exchange put me in mind of one of my favorite scenes in This is Spinal Tap that also had to do with numbers, dumb interviewers and pompous Englishmen.

Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...

Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?

Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.

Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?

Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?

Marty DiBergi: I don't know.

Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly! What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven?

Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly! One louder!

With critics like Maher (and the Republicans) President Obama needs no friends. I trust the president will remain as fortunate in his detractors throughout his presidency. He looks, sounds -- and is -- way ahead of them all.

Frank Schaeffer is the author of Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back and the forthcoming Patience With God: Faith For People Who Don't Like Religion (Or Atheism)

Follow Frank Schaeffer on Twitter: www.twitter.com/frank_schaeffer

Comments

[owlafaye]

The titles and suppositions attached to atheists, such as self-loathing, immoral, lacking in character...these are not observable traits but rather a crude defense by shaky God believing people. The religious seek comfort, approbations and support from other religious. It is definitely needed when you believe in an invisible, magical, zombie being that lives in the sky. Christian doctrine, dogma, belief...what a hotbed of foolishness and muth. Something for all reasonable, mind-using people to laugh at. You Christian folks are a bunch of mind numb fools folks.

[owlafaye]

The extraordinary claims of religion have never been supported by any evidence whatsoever. If Maher approaches these claims as foolishness, one can hardly blame him. There is a lot of blather that has derived from the claim of a Big Booger Booger in the Sky. Prove it or suffer ridicule for all time.

[elmerfude]

As an atheist with 60 + years of religion in my resume (I was a slow learner) and as a scientist and poet, I think the fundamentalists in religion make the same mistake as the secular fundamentalists. They both desacralize nature. Nature is self creating per various evolutionary processes that we are starting to understand and this act of self creation creates a numinous impulse that in fact has a direction. I don't think Maher gets this at all although I do like some of his humor. Obama commands my respect because he actually seems to understand the message of Jesus without being judgmental of others. He even mentioned non believers in the inaugural address. He also seems to act out his understanding of Christianity by loving his family, offering service to others in his spare time and trying to set a good example for fathers. He is what I call a Jesusian. I like to think of myself as a atheistic Jesusian.

[Gahiji Barrow]

Very nice. I often speak of the disconnect between Jesus and his "followers" I consider him to be good role model. But just as much the son of God as I. I don't consider myself a fully fledged atheist (I will never admit to complete certainty) but atheistic Jesusian is a term I can appreciate.

[jhunter1212]

"Maher's attempt to put religious belief in its place only reinforces the fact that for most people, one belief system is always replaced by another." - This "fact" would only apply to converts from one religion to another religion - not atheism. Atheism is, by definition, non-belief. Therefore it's not a "belief system." I would label it more of a "thinking for yourself" system than anything else. Belief has nothing to do with it.

Maher (an agnostic), Dawkins and other atheists (myself included) are not "fundamentalists" as Schaeffer preaches. To quote Dawkins in response to this criticism:

"It is all too easy to mistake passion that can change its mind for fundamentalism, which never will. ...If all the evidence in the universe turned in favour of creationism, I would be the first to admit it, and I would immediately change my mind. As things stand, however, all available evidence favours evolution. It is for this reason alone that I argue for evolution with a passion that matches the passion of those who argue against it. My passion is based on evidence. Theirs, flying in the face of evidence as it does, is truly fundamentalist."

There should be a section on HP for atheism - if nothing else, just to counterpoint the one for religion.

[MattLajeskie]

Bill Maher just speaks the truth and he refuses to worship people above principles - sorry if you can't handle that Mr. Schaeffer. Your article was more a critique of the movie than anything Bill said; you failed to debunk him. The bottom line here is the left needs to grow some balls and start calling out these do nothing, war funding Democrats who masquerade as liberals. The way the party is going I will be heading over to my local courthouse to remove the D next to my name and replace it with an I. And as someone who voted for and attended the inauguration of President Obama I must say although it is still early there are a lot of bad signs so far - a lot of good ones as well - but I was expecting a liberal, not a centrist. It's time to start spending that political capital on something other than compromises with intellectually challenged right wing minority.

[Zanti]

Mr. Schaeffer wrote mostly about Maher's criticisms of religion, which he (and I) regard as shallow and uninformed.

[Jimboz22]

You're correct that Mr. Schaeffer's piece was mostly about Maher's dubious views on religion. However, you cannot deny that Schaeffer used Maher's misguided views on religion to attack Maher's criticism of Obama's economic policy, which was smack on. In equating Maher's criticism of religion with his criticism of Obamanomics, Schaffer is committing a serious error.

Bill Maher and commenter MattLajeskie are right: the Democrats, now out of the shadows of opposition, have revealed themselves to be pro-corporate, spineless hacks. Seriously, Diane Feinstein thinks there might not even be enough votes for a public option, let alone Medicare-for-all national health insurance, despite the fact that over 2/3 of Americans support single payer? And what about EFCA and a host of other issues? Doesn't labor deserve at least one victory, after donating millions of dollars and countless hours to Obama's campaign? It's simply unbelievable how much these people, these supposed defenders of working people, ethnic minorities, immigrants, and the LGBT community, have become captive to corporate interests and how little they actually care about the people who got them elected.

Maher is right: Obama's not your boyfriend. He's not your friend or even acquaintance. He's the President of the USA and has been governing from the center right since coming into office. We should not just trust him to do the right thing, because unless we pressure him, clearly he won't. American progressives need to end their love affair with Obama and fight for real change.

[MeltonCartes]

Very interesting.

[jamaltimore]

Bill Maher is trying to be the rush limbaugh of the democratic party. He's a great choice as he's made his career telling jokes for a living, the same joke and/or delusions the party wants to sell to the public. Rush on the other hand is big loudmouth but in most cases his theories and soapbox stories are based on historical facts, not skits. I treat them both like car accidents so I slow down just enough to catch a glimpse.

Unfortunate there are only two parties in the US. time for Independent party not tied to anything other than social liberalism and fiscal conservatism

[JohnFromCensornati]

When you can't respond to what someone says about a subject, just change the subject and talk about what he said about that subject.
This type of adhom attack is especially interesting if there is a book to sell on that second subject.

[wondering]

I think that any Christian who pats him or herself on the back for NOT being a Biblical literalist just hasn't thought too deeply about their personal faith.

Seemingly, non-fundamentalist Christians like to think of themselves as intelligent, rational beings. So ask yourself the following : Should any of the supernatural parts of the Bible (i.e., miracles) be taken literally? Did Jesus really turn water into wine? Raise Lazarus from the dead? If so, then you open yourself up to charges of literalism. Or do you believe in just SOME of the miracles and laugh at the rest?

If none of the supernatural parts are literally true, then was Jesus divine? If not, then Jesus is just a secular philosopher (of dubious merits) that you happen to enjoy. Why consider Jesus more special than any other man? I mean, are there religions devoted to the worship of Kant or Nietzsche or MLK or Ghandi or Schweizer?

It's a classic slippery slope problem : believe too little of the Bible and you deny the divinity of Jesus, believe too much and you are a literalist.

C'mon Christians : Is the Bible a simple historical narrative of the life of a purely human Jesus? Is it the revealed "Word" of a living god? A series of pleasant Zen koans slapped together long after the actual facts? (Having been raised a Roman Catholic, I know where they come down on the issue, but they're a bunch of fundies anyway.)

.

[William Graham]

Yes. The Christian bible is just a book of history, opinion, etc. No flying rabbis, no talking snakes outside of myth and contrivance.

You are gullible to believe it, and morality long predated organized religions or there would have been none.

[diogeron]

Maher is right on the nonsense of religion. One does not have to be an "expert" to refuse to accept big ideas (god) with no evidence. On the other hand, we have data from which to draw on the heath care initiative and the jury on Obama (and the Democrats in Congress) is still out. I think Maher got out the shrill sword too soon, but it doesn't hurt to put the Ds feet to the fire on the public plan.

[DavidDial]

Maher and Limbaugh have a great deal in common. Both are worshiped by radicals and extremists... Maher on the left, Limbaugh on the right... and both are prone to say things that are totally irrational because they make their livings appealing to the most irrational elements of society and neither would get more than about 10% of the vote if they ran for office anywhere but San Francisco or Booger Hole.

[MALIKK]

bill maher for president 2012

[Zanti]

66 comments! Oh, my.

Anyway, Mr. Schaeffer, thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you. Especially for this:

"When approaching the biblical narrative through his handpicked interviewees (and how he edited their comments), Maher didn't seem to 'get' allegory, let alone literary imagination or the results of religious faith in ordinary people's lives. For instance he seemed to think that religion, and Christianity in particular, is only about literal belief in the various biblical stories. It's not. It never has been."

For quite a while, I've been trying to communicate just that to the neo-atheists on these pages, and I've been mocked as a dullard and (just tonight) criticized as someone whose Christianity is "questionable." All because I'm no fundie, and all because I insist the Bible can, and must, be interpreted. Maher is utterly typical.

Trying to reach the tightly zipped, data-based minds in question may be the ultimate exercise in futility. I doubt that even reading your post will produce a dent in their literal-minded certainty.

[JohnFromCensornati]

Black and white.

[Zanti]

Up and down. Big and small. Tall and short.

This is fun!

In and out. Far and near. Smart and dumb. Inspired and insipid.

Your turn!

[William Graham]

And you claim wisdom through data-ignorance? You accept biblical truth a priori, and amaze me at your gullibility.

[Zanti]

Let me guess--you're one of those it-means-e­xactly-wha­t-it-says sorts, right?

Kind of an odd tangent from what I said, which is that the Bible is open to interpretation. I didn't suggest that we ignore the text. Is that what you think it means to interpret something--to ignore its actual meaning?

At any rate, I didn't suggest that Bible scholarship involves any degree of ignoring the text. Please tell me how you arrived at that.

[Zanti]

Heeeeellll­llooooooo?

[falconef]

"How can God hear the prayers of everyone at once?" (To which one answer might be, if Google can do it, why not God?)

If Google can do it, why not God? I LOVE it! That's a good one Frank. I'm definately going to remember that one.

[MsYellowDog]

I certainly hope that Mr. Schaeffer is right in his assessment,and that most of the Great Unwashed(like me) agree with him. I was broken-hearted to hear Maher attack Obama in the way he did. I'll never think as much of Maher again.

[JohnFromCensornati]

Do you understand what Maher does for a living?

[Zanti]

He's a celebrity. He's quite smart, but his ego gets in the way of things. It's sad to see someone with his potential behave like such an... um... well.