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Geoffrey R. Stone

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"Guns Don't Kill"

Posted: 07/20/2012 10:37 pm

After learning of the horrific shooting of 71 people in Aurora, Colorado, I decided to check the National Rifle Association's website to see what the NRA had to say about this national tragedy.

To my surprise, I found... nothing. Although the NRA's site was overflowing with celebratory "news stories" about such matters as the joys of carrying concealed weapons, there was not a word -- not a word -- about the Aurora massacre. There was not a word about the 12 people who were killed or the 59 others who were shot; not a word about the array of weapons used by the killer; not a word about the ease with which anyone in Colorado can obtain automatic weapons; not even a word of sympathy for the families of the victims.

But, of course, why should the NRA have anything to say about this tragedy? As we all know, guns don't kill people, people kill people. This tells us something striking about Americans, by the way, because the average American is 40 times more likely to be killed by gunfire than the average Englishman or Canadian. According to the NRA, this has nothing to do with the fact that guns proliferate in America and are scarce in England and Canada. We just have to face the facts: Americans, unlike Englishmen and Canadians, are murderous by nature. The ready availability of assault weapons has nothing to do with it.

If the United States had the same gun murder rate as England or Canada, approximately 8,500 American men, women and children who were slaughtered by gunfire in 2011 might still be alive today. If the United States had the same gun murder rate as England since 2000, 100,000 murdered American men, women and children might still be alive today.

Of course, it is not only the NRA and its supporters who are accountable for this sorrowful state of affairs. It is also our elected representatives in Congress who have persistently lacked the common sense and courage to renew the federal assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004. This is, by any reasonable measure, a grievous failure of responsible governance.

In the face of this national tragedy, President Obama says this is not the time for politics but for prayer. But this is the time for politics, before we do what we always do after such massacres -- shed some tears, express our grief, say a few prayers, and then quickly go on to do what the NRA wants us to do -- change the subject.

 
 
 
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After learning of the horrific shooting of 71 people in Aurora, Colorado, I decided to check the National Rifle Association's website to see what the NRA had to say about this national tragedy. To m...
After learning of the horrific shooting of 71 people in Aurora, Colorado, I decided to check the National Rifle Association's website to see what the NRA had to say about this national tragedy. To m...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
swatcapt
05:18 PM on 09/07/2012
"not a word about the ease with which anyone in Colorado can obtain automatic weapons"

Dear Mr stone please why dont you show use how easy it is to get a automatic weapon. As it is not. If you had the any idea what you were talking about you would know this. Also if you are complaining about the NRA not saying anything about the shooting why are you also not complaining about the Brady bunch not saying anything when a gun helps someone save their life.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
russlbaca
No matter where I go, there I am.
09:42 PM on 09/01/2012
If "Guns don't kill people...", then guns don't save people, either.
03:05 PM on 07/26/2012
rr
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
09:11 PM on 07/23/2012
This appears to be an advanced case of "cinematic psychosis" which went undiagnosed and untreated for months or maybe even years.
09:03 AM on 07/24/2012
"The film I haven't seen yet made me do it".. Laughable, if 12 people weren't lying on cold metal right now.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:35 PM on 07/23/2012
Let' ask another question, if it is permitted. Who needs bullet resistant body armor? Is there are legitimate need outside of law enforcement and the military, both of which are government functions. Should acquiring body armor be a signal that something is amiss? You can bet it would be in a high risk country like Israel. Does Homeland Security track such things?

Thanks heavens there is very little domestic threat from Al Qaeda directly on the ground in the US, or body armor and guns control would have gone way up, not down. But what's with all this body armor?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Radioburning
03:18 AM on 07/24/2012
I know people who wear bullet proof vests to public shooting ranges because of all the homeboys lacking firearm safety...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ConservativebyNature
Molon Labe ! !
10:39 AM on 07/25/2012
Who needs a car that goes 110 MPH?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
06:27 PM on 07/25/2012
Huh, I don't think a car that goes 100 MPH is meant for hanging in during a shoot out.
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Social Construct
Go left, young man.
09:32 AM on 07/23/2012
This author hits the nail on the head, Either we claim to be a much more violent people than our Western nation fellows, or we admit that easy access to fire arms is responsible for the much higher rate of gun violence and death. Pick one.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Radioburning
03:22 AM on 07/24/2012
The vast majority of gun violence in America is done by minority youths killing each other over drug/gang territory. I guess that's because of me, and the guns I have locked upthesis safe, huh?
07:52 AM on 07/24/2012
You may be the most responsible gun owner in America. But what happens when you sell a gun, or lose it? Or someone breaks into your house or car and steals it?

Surely any gun can, very easily, end up in the hands of the youths you yourself criticise? We're all human, mistakes do happen.
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Social Construct
Go left, young man.
09:36 AM on 07/24/2012
minority yuths, huh? Then, what's causing "minority" youths to go around shooting each other? I'd say there's plenty of "minority" youths running around other industrialized nations. How come they're not shooting each other at the same rate as the US' "minority" youths? What are your thoughts to that question?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ConservativebyNature
Molon Labe ! !
09:12 AM on 07/25/2012
The author takes the easy way out. He is lazy. There are many factors in why we have the rates that we have. Most of those reasons are socio-economic and not that we have more guns percapita. Take a look at the overall rate of violence in England. The picture begins to be less pretty. Also, Canada is experienceing an increase in violent crime to include gun violence. Our crime rate on the other hand has been steadily declining for years while the rate of gun ownership has been increasing. According to the author, this shouldn't be happening. We should be experienceing through the roof crime and shootings. It just isn't happening.
08:35 AM on 07/23/2012
The prevalence of guns leading to people (who can afford it) having to live in private, gated complexes (we call them "prisons" here) makes me glad I live in England.

Allowing just about everyone to own/carry guns is crazy and guarantees that more people (including children) will die in the US.

"God bless America", as you say!
09:06 PM on 07/23/2012
Why people dont die in ENGLAND !
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
luvobama
Hospice volunteer...
12:41 AM on 07/24/2012
Oh puleeze.  There is no comparison.
04:13 AM on 07/24/2012
And this illustrates the point beautifully.

An American who can't string a proper sentence together or who reacts aggessively to anything he doesn't like or understand can go out and buy multiple automatic weapons and store them in his house next to that school, hospital, church, mosque or neighbour who's annoyed him for years with his lawnmower.

Americans say they need guns for self-defence but from who? From other Americans with guns? From terrorists? The 9/11 attacks, as awful as they were, only killed 3,000 people. Americans themselves have killed many times this number of fellow Americans themselves because of their love of guns.

Insane.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Radioburning
03:26 AM on 07/24/2012
You must not have noticed the mass shooting that happened in England last year. You also missed that little detail about how England's violent crime rate per capita has surpassed the U.S. How's that skyrocketing homicide with a knife rate workin'
07:45 AM on 07/24/2012
I guess I must have missed it - which mass-shooting was that exactly?

Nowhere's perect, and we do have a problem with knife crime mostly amongst gangs in deprived areas of our bigger cities (London and Manchester mostly). As I mentioned in another post, it's pretty difficult to burst into a cinema, school, etc with a knife and kill or injure 100+ people.

The thing about England is I can walk down pretty much any street, even in the roughest areas, without having to worry about anyone "popping a cap in my ass".
07:46 AM on 07/24/2012
Ah, I think you're thinking of Norway. Just to put things straight, Norway is a country, not a British city.

How many guns do you own by the way?
05:49 AM on 07/23/2012
I love how when soldiers or police officers do some heroic act we praise the individual, yet when a person commits a horrible act like the recent murders in Colorado, we say it was the gun...hmmmm. If one were to read the Federalist Papers, specifically article 29, Alexander Hamilton lays out the argument for the 2nd amendment. I am paraphrasing here, but basically that in times of national emergency, if an individual were able to protect himself and his home, it would relieve a tremendous amount pressure on the military and or police forces. In the city I live the population is around 300000, the police force total employees, (not just patrol but admin, lab techs, etc) is less than 900. As much as I wish it were the case, they have no duty to protect the individual, that means the only person I can count on for my protection, is myself. (and my Glock)
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Governor Oopsies
a repetitive mistake gradually getting worse
07:13 AM on 07/23/2012
In addition to buying 6,000 rounds of ammunition on-line, James Holmes also bought bulletproof vests and other tactical gear, and a high-capacity “drum magazine” large enough to hold 100 rounds and capable of firing 50 or 60 rounds per minute.

All protected under the 2nd amendment?
08:09 AM on 07/23/2012
No, nor did I say any of that was. Believe it or not I actually believe that drum style high cap magazines are ridiculous and unnecessary. Buying ammunition on line is no significant indicator of anything, I can go to my local Cabela's or Gander Mountain and buy the same thing in bulk, hundreds of thousands of people do it every month across the country, they don't then go on shooting sprees. As far as bulletproof vests go, was it significant in the commission of the crime? In my state it is illegal to commit a crime while wearing a bulletproof vest, but it also illegal to kill people for no reason, it still happens. The last time I remember hearing about bulletproof vests contributing to the commission of a crime was during the 1997 North Hollywood shootout, and the only people who died in that event were the criminals wearing the vests. Look, I don't have the answers, nor will I pretend to, I just think that maybe instead of the knee jerk "It's guns that are the cause of this...lets get rid of em" we should look at Holmes and see what made him tick, why this happened. Did making drugs or alcohol illegal stop people from drinking or getting high? What about drunk driving? Canada just ended its gun registration program because they realized that it was way too expensive and criminals didn't register their guns anyways so it was pointless.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jezabell69
hey micro-bio..ur edited
07:54 PM on 07/23/2012
it is....the 2nd amendment was created in case government went awry, so that a militia could protect the country from the government....i know that these days, that seems like a ludicrous amendment, but you have to remember, that when this amendment was set into law, the country was very young, and American's had just fled from england because the people did not agree with the taxes and laws that were levied upon them....they wanted to make sure that "the people" could protect themselves from the government if need be...the 2nd amendment was inacted to make sure that government did not "attack" , for lack of a better word, it's own people..back then it meant that everyone had a shotgun or sidearm to protect their land and property...not only from thieves, but from the new government...that is why they created the way for a malitia...now a days, with the new technology and such...it's like a two edged sword....
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
luvobama
Hospice volunteer...
12:42 AM on 07/24/2012
Compensating huh Bud?
Hafingnetonne
A few words
12:14 AM on 07/23/2012
Perfect mix for inaction: the venerable Constitution is WRONG and should have its 2nd amendement revisited pronto illico dare dare, and the NRA lobby is powerful greasing palms on all sides and no politician has the courage to shut ENOUGH. They will diddle waddle and canoe and even shed authentic tears- but more Americans (30,000 a year) will die short lives ending in sorrow. The scandal is great the politician will is weak.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jezabell69
hey micro-bio..ur edited
08:03 PM on 07/23/2012
idk if it is true, but i have read that Chicago has the strictist of guns laws, yet has the highest murder rate....i live in Texas, where most people carry guns....i grew up around guns and have a GREAT respect for what they can do....i was taught a long time ago to NEVER pull a gun unless i meant to use it to kill....you will find no gun in my house where a child could get it, nor have i ever pulled it on anyone...i can see your point, but i don't think there is any way you can get all the guns out of the hands of the criminals....just think about the 1930's and such with Bugsy Seagle and the likes of the mafia...they had automatics also...do you really believe that if you tell a criminal he can't have a gun, he won't find one somewhere? at least if i have one too, i would have a fighting chance...
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
luvobama
Hospice volunteer...
12:45 AM on 07/24/2012
Moat guns are used against their owners.  You're from Texas and you're bragging?
04:24 AM on 07/24/2012
This could also be down to the population per square foot in a place. I'd bet that Chicago is more crowded than Texas? People in crowded cities tend to be more stressed, and cities always have poor, deprived areas which become focal points for crime.

In the UK, we have very strict gun laws. Most of our police don't need to carry guns (and on the whole, we don't want them to). Criminals do get guns occassionally, but it's quite rare and for those cases our Armed Response Units are called in. Every time an armed police office fires a shot, there is a full inquiry as to why and whether it could have been avoided.

Our biggest problem here is with knife crime, but as bad as that it, you can only kill or injure a small number of people with a knife, not like with automatic weapons.
09:11 PM on 07/23/2012
i am a NRA member and i only grease my GUNS!
11:49 PM on 07/22/2012
Possible reason the NRA website was silent on this news story: the NRA (and the Republican Party) continues to say that Obama and the Democrats are, and will, make it harder to obtain a gun. The small arsenal which the Aurora suspect had, belies what the NRA says. I guess even with all their guns backing them up, the NRA can't man-up. You know, this issue of whether it's the gun or the person to blame, will go on, but it seems to ignore this fact: the NRA says it's the unbalanced person who's to blame; yet spreading lies about Obama taking away their guns, and trying to whip them up into a frenzy, is, they know, a sure-fire way to unbalance them.
11:01 PM on 07/22/2012
“Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun).”

“And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…”

- Eddie Izzard
10:41 PM on 07/22/2012
Seriously gun laws needed NOW!!!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jamesreid
10:14 PM on 07/22/2012
Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE WITH GUNS kill people!!!!!!
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beerbagger
12-pack of genius
10:13 PM on 07/22/2012
Someone please explain what freedom comes from a weapon of death? Talk about liberation. Good Luck!!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jack Hope
Occasionally quoted by Mainstream Media
09:55 PM on 07/22/2012
As is inevitable there will be a great deal of hand wringing and 'shock' about this unfortunate and tragic incident. There will be the calls for something to be done.

A year from now, at best the only noticeable change will be some new and totally ineffective security at cinemas across the United States. Nothing will have been done to address questions of mental health or gun control.

Many will undoubtedly claim this is a great victory from 'freedom and public safety.'

Might as well go ahead and start a countdown clock to the next mass shooting. I'm sure a great number of you already have your next 'shocked, utterly shocked' faces to roll out when the completely predictable happens yet again.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
elizlucinda
a mind is a terrible thing to waste
10:29 PM on 07/22/2012
It is disturbing that these types of killings happen with such regularity in the United states and nothing changes
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Radioburning
03:30 AM on 07/24/2012
Mass killings happen in China, and Russia. You just don't hear about them...
11:01 PM on 07/22/2012
As long as the NRA are in control, massacres will continue to happen.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jack Hope
Occasionally quoted by Mainstream Media
04:40 PM on 07/23/2012
They sure don't seem to hurt their bottom lines, or the bottom lines of those who fund them.
09:16 PM on 07/23/2012
The NRA has nothing to do with violence. they protect your gun rights . even some of your police officers are NRA members . move to ENGLAND if you dont like it . the NRA is here to stay and i do support them