When Tim Russert Testified Against 'Scooter' Libby

In the wake of the passing of Tim Russert today, some will no doubt recall that he testified at the "Scooter" Libby trial -- but few, I would guess, can now remember what he said or why he was there. So here is a refresher, in the form of a portion of an AP article we carried at E&P just after that day in February 2007.

But first: On the afternoon Russert went to court, I had opened another article at E&P this way: "One of the most highly awaited moments in the 'CIA Leak' trial in Washington, D.C. arrived this afternoon just before 2:30 when NBC's Tim Russert finally took the stand, after discarding crutches (he broke his ankle not long ago)." I should note in passing that I have always followed Russert's career closely, as we grew up together, so to speak, in the Buffalo area at about the same time.

Here is an excerpt from that AP story:

Tim Russert, an unrelenting interrogator as host of NBC's "Meet the Press," said Friday it was painful having the tables turned on him by lawyers defending former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby against perjury and obstruction charges.

The day after Russert spent five grueling hours on the witness stand in Libby's trial, the NBC newsman took questions in the much friendlier setting of an interview on the set of the "Today" show with his network colleagues. Asked how it felt to be on the other end of rapid-fire questioning, Russert said, "It's a lot of easier to throw grenades than it is to catch them. I've got to tell you.

"Sitting in that witness box is very uncomfortable because on `Meet the Press' or the `Today' show, you have a chance to finish your thought and complete your sentence. That's not the case in a court of law. The defense lawyer will say, `Yes or no, yes or no' and you're trying very hard to listen intently to the question to make sure you answer as precisely as possible," he added. "Otherwise it can be played back the next day. ... It's not pleasant, I have to say."

Russert said, though, he kept a mind a lesson learned in the 7th grade, that "if you tell the truth, you'll live to remember one story, and that's what I did."

In the "Today" interview, Russert reiterated what he had said on the stand: he did not discuss the wife of former Ambassador Joseph Wilson with Libby in a conversation they had in July 2003 and he said he did not at that time know about Valerie Plame, Wilson's wife, who was outed subsequently as a CIA operative.

"I did not know she worked at the CIA. I did not know any of that until the following Monday when I saw all in (newspaper columnist) Robert Novak's column. ... We simply did not know it. I wish we had."

Russert did say he was "stunned" when he heard that Libby said he had learned Plame's identity from him, saying, "I said that just can't be. It's impossible." Russert held to that line during cross-examination. He also disclosed -- in a well-publicized statement -- that he considered his chats with sources all off-the-record unless put on the record, the opposite of the usual journalistic approach.
*
Greg Mitchell's new book is So Wrong for So Long: How the Press, the Pundits -- and the President -- Failed on Iraq. He is editor of Editor & Publisher.

Comments

[yankhadenuf]

I liked & admired Tim Russert A LOT. He was lied about by Scooter Libby. Libby said that Russert 'outted' Valerie Plame to him on the phone . Pat Fitzgerald wanted Tim to testify. NBC's lawyers tried to stop it, based on confidentiality of sources 1st Amendment right that press industry uses. Eventually Tim had to testify & truth came out under oath. Russert testified that he did NOT DISCUSS & did NOT LEAK Valerie Plame to Libby in that conversation. Fitz used this to indict Libby for perjury!

[bill750]

It always bothers me when someone near my age passes away - and I basically liked Russert and watched Meet the Press pretty regularly. I have over the last few years, however, gotten sick of his "gotcha" moments. Sure, politicians need to be held accountable for their actions and comments, but his show really degenerated into an hour of the same thing. I also tired of his inability or unwillingness to ask follow-up questions and he seemed (usually) content to let political blowhards get away with making all sorts of outrageous comments. This is not a problem unique to Meet the Press, unfortunately. Anyway, condolences to his family and friends. BTW, I'll bet that David Gregory gets the MTP gig after the orgy of mourning is over for a respectable period of time...

[SouthpawSass]

Tim Russert wasn't nasty or jaded enough to have seen past Libby or Cheney. Mr. Russert was raised by honest, hard working people who taught him to have ethics and integrity. Politicians like Cheney and Libby have no sense of integrity or ethics and if they were raised with any, they certainly forgot about them...

I guess that kid from Buffalo didn't see the glass as always half empty. He assumed perhaps that a man's word was his bond; that these politicians came on his show because they had as much respect for his position as he had for theirs. Sadly, they didn't.

[drjay79]

you drink the cool-aid?

[hilaritee]

buffalo is pretty old school but we are not simpletons!

[kimk3]

Let's not forget that Russert was Cheney's favorite show to go on to sell his wretched lies about the war...

[SouthpawSass]

Politicians have become very media savvy. They figured out that if you invite the media to functions, dinners, events and ply them with chamagne and hors d'oeuvres, they'll be less likely to attack you. And well, it worked. The media is star struck. Unfortunately, it's affected their ability to perform to the extent they should.

Was Russert a bad guy? No. He was that kid from Buffalo who I believe woke up every morning with a sense of awe about where he was, who he was and how he got there...

[willo]

I believe Russert was just part of what we know as "mainstream media'. That is, they discuss the topics that are OK'ed by the powers that be to discuss. If they go near the real and ugly truths, their career's come to an abrupt halt. In my opinion, he was "owned" just like the rest of them.
Maybe someday we can have real journalism in this country.

[ptarantino]

"Hopefully Russert's employer will find a successor to him that will be highly qualified and provide objective reporting because we must have this if our democracy has a chance to survive."

I believe this is crucial for our Country to move forward. Real reporting & journalism, needs to rise up again.

[Quipman]

I agree with you and your point is one that should never be forgotten as many lives have been lost and changed forever behind Mr. Russerts and others actions. My heart goes out to Mr. Russerts family and the families that have lost their love ones in this war based on lies.

[Ted4]

Condolances to Tim Russert's wife, son and family. He passed too soon.

I was not a fan of Russert. I thought he had the opportunity to do better with the huge and important audiance he was given. Sadly he was no Murrow when we so badly needed an objective voice that just might have helped prevent this horrific war in Iraq.

Hopefully Russert's employer will find a successor to him that will be highly qualified and provide objective reporting because we must have this if our democracy has a chance to survive.

[JimR]

I think many people don't understand the fine line Tim Russert had to walk each day. High-level politicians kept coming back on his show because they knew that even though Russert would confront them on some issues, he would maintain a level of respect and decorum, and he wouldn't humiliate them or make them look bad.

He did ask the tough questions. But he didn't go for the throat, which seems to be your complaint. He would present the facts, and get a response from his guest. If there was a conflict between the two, he'd press his guest on that. But ultimately, he let the viewers decide.

Maybe if we as Americans could awake from our collective slumber and apathy and demand more from our lawmakers, we could prevent things like the Iraq debacle from happening again.

[rel77]

I'm truly shocked by this news, and selfishly I feel robbed of what he would have contributed to a historic election year. Meet The Press was the one show I would never miss, because I knew I would see thoughtful, tough questions in a forum that valued mutual respect, the opposite of the 2 dimensional scream-fests that often pass for news shows now. I completely agree with the concerns that he may have, as Ted Koppel noted tonight, "worked way too hard". I know of this profession, and it's long hours in a way most people can't imagine. I used to work at 30 Rock, and I once worked 36 hours straight. That's an extreme example, but 16 hours a day for weeks is not. I will remember Tim Russert for what he brought to the discussion, this world needs more people like him.

[Leper]

Tim Russert told the truth.

I understand that you have to have performed THREE miracles to be considered for sainthood.

[MegHK]

Greg-Thank you for your heartfelt, beautiful tribute to the integrity of Tim Russert.

[Drew]

I'm shocked by Russert's death, and I also send my sympathies to his family and his colleagues. Watching some of the coverage I've been impressed by the outpouring of affection and loyalty to a man who seems to be widely admired for his generosity and kindness.

That said, in the context of Mr. Mitchell's post, I think it's important to also recall another key part of his testimony at the Libby trial. In just about these words, Russert said that all his discussions with sources are considered off the record UNLESS they're specifically identified as on the record. (The details should be easily searchable in FireDogLake's live-blogging of the trial.)

Many were shocked by this admission by a leading journalist. Today may not be the day to re-hash the details, but in the ongoing discussion about the evolution of media & journalism, it's a question worth pursuing. Truly regretful that Russert won't be here to add his perspective.

[Drew]

Here's the exchange, from the live-blogging (not an exact transcript)...

Russert: "My personal policy is always off the record when talking to government officials unless specified. So I didn't go on air and talk about it, but I told Neal Shapiro and told him I'd..."

link: http://firedoglake.com/2007/02/07/libby-live-tim-russert-one/

[itmaybetoolate]

It is always a shock when someone you "know well" dies suddenly, especially at a young age. It reminds us of our own mortality and it does feel as if we have lost someone we knew - a strong familiarity is created when you watch someone on TV week after week, read about them, see them on the news, etc. And heaping praise on the deceased is also common immediately after the death. I would only ask that folks remember that Tim Russert was one of the cheerleaders for the Iraq war. He participated in the propaganda machine in a very real way. He was a human being, with all the good and bad we find in each of us. But, to be honest, I lost my respect for his journalistic ethic as a result of his participation in the administration's drumbeat to war. I never watched his show again. That being said, RIP.

[Anastasia]

When talking about Russert on MSNBC tonight, Chris Matthews made it seem like Russert took what the Bush Administration said at face value. For Tim, the tipping point was the "fact" that they had nukes, which as we know, turned out to be false.

Russert was by no means alone in this, but it seems that a significant number of American journalists are simply naive, especially those who aren't predisposed to question authority. I don't believe that Russert was cynical or dishonest but rather, too credulous, too trusting.

[guajiro]

He was complicit in lying to the American people about WMD and was complicit in the use of the media by the Bush cabal to deceive the American people into going to war in Iraq.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-fiderer/the-nobel-prize-and-russe_b_9307.html

"Two-and-a-half years before Mohamed ElBaradei and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) won the Nobel Peace Prize, friends of the Administration were trashing them in the media. Pushing for war with Iraq, these hawks insisted that inspections don’t work. In early March 2003, Tim Russert pushed their case further, by repeating lies to “prove” inspections don’t work. Those lies speak volumes about media coverage of the WMD story then and now.".

[ez14livin]

the last thing we need in this country or on this planet is 'naive' journalists

one core trait a journalist needs to have is CYNICISM.

to quote the republican godfather, reagan: trust, but verify

we need WAY more investigative reporting and much LESS pundit talking point regurgitation and predictions. anyone can speculate. who is out there simply reporting the TRUTH?

are you listening CNN?

[liz]

We should not have expected Russert to do investigative reporting. That was not his job. He was an interviewer. He loved his access to powerful people and did seem to become more part of the group than an observer. In addition to the idea that he held his relationships with government figures to be confidential unless specified otherwise, I remember his special relationship with Cheney, which led Cheney to direct "information" to him, knowing it would get the kind of play the GOP wanted. His awe of the powerful, and his small town self concept may have led him to be too trusting. Maybe his own background was so benign that he really could not conceive of the kind of sociopathy and cynicism inherent in a Rove or Cheney at the top of the US government.

[eladora]

When the vice pres of this country looks you in the eye you believe him. That interview now --with the cheney look--while not doing the job at the time, clearly exposed that look of the liar for future times & interviews. cheney will never be able to escape that interview being played for history and shown to be what it was. that is cheneys legacy and it was caught on tape with Russert. the dems should play it every day and the part where mccain says he would have cheney in his cabinet--welcome him.
Tim Russert was welcomed & tivoed in my home whenever he was on tv because he did not bring a silver spoon to the table. His core was unspoiled and his intent was golden.
It is a loss to this country .

[Grace2008]

Merlin7 - get over yourself.

[JePense]

Have to disagree with Grace2008. The relentless grief-on-camera display is unseemly - almost exhibitionist. Merlin's comment was refreshingly honest.

Russert was never my favorite either. He was too subjective. There was an ambitious element of social climber in his pursuits. So anxious to be part of the in-crowd, he often turned meet the press into press releases from the administration. He was very anti-Howard Dean in 2004 -- and yet if someone would just pull the video tape, Russert crowed louder than Dean did when he was on air as an "objective" journalist that night.

I am impressed by the thngs his colleagues and friends have said about his love of family and what a supportive boss he was to them. These are things we weren't privy to. But as Merlin said -- there is OTHER news for his grieving employees to cover. I guess it will go on all weekend ...these people should save some of their eulogies for the funeral. It's kind of a public grief therapy session -- and not nearly as important to the audience.

Maybe they don't know what else to do: it's MSNCBC's cheap=profit model. Typicaly the MSNBC staff all interview each other repeatedly all day and all night. Usually they just report to each other what they've read on the internet. Meet the press went all the way with that concept June 8 - Russert interviewed his own staff!

[Oldbuck]

Tim Russet was a very passionate Journalist whom enjoyed what he did with love of country. You could tell by the way he went after the story. His kind of dedication to his trade is not found that much in this day and time. He will be sorely miss by all of use who follow the politico scene.