iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Harvey Fierstein

Harvey Fierstein

Posted: November 7, 2008 02:35 PM

Historic for Some, Same Old Shit for the Rest of Us


While we dance in the streets and pat ourselves on the back for being a nation great enough to reach beyond racial divides to elect our first African-American president let us not forget that we remain a nation still proudly practicing prejudice.

I have heard this day described as one of transcendence where Americans came together to prove that we are, above all, a nation of fairness. World witnesses wrote that we rose above ideology, politics and bigotry to achieve a great moment for America. Meanwhile, on this same Election Day, we great Americans passed laws as heinous as any Jim Crow legislation. We great Americans reached out and willfully put our name to language that denies an entire minority group their equal rights.

Of course I am referring to the states of Florida, Arizona and California passing legislation to specifically deny gay people from entering into the contract of marriage. Actually, that's not true. We can still get married, just not to each other. Yes my friends, Florida and California have now made it legal for gay men and lesbians to marry as long as we don't marry our partners. How much sense does that make?

Now, before you rise up on your high horse to holler, "We're not against Civil Unions, just Gay Marriage", let me once again explain that THE SUPREME COURT HAS STATED THAT SEPARATE BUT EQUAL IS NOT EQUAL. And even if it were, civil unions are simply not equal to marriage.

Let me give you a simple example that anyone can follow. John and Jim are registered as domestic partners and so, just like a married couple; Jim is covered by John's employee health care. That's really nice. BUT... since the IRS does not recognize civil unions or domestic partnership Jim has to pay income tax on the value of this coverage. So, unlike a married couple, John and Jim are penalized hundreds of dollars for not being married. That's not fair. That's not in the spirit of the civil union legislation. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of the inequality being offered.

Listen, my fellow Americans, I am only asking that we get sensible about this controversy. Gays are not asking for religious blessings. We are not asking for everyone to come to our weddings. We are not asking the government to force churches and synagogues to perform marriage rituals or even to allow us into their tax-exempt edifices. We are simply and forcefully demanding equal protection under the laws of this nation as tax paying, voting, property owning citizens. I want no more or less protection than granted any heterosexual to control and distribute my holdings.

State sanctioned marriage is a civil contract period. A contract is not a judgment of moral value. It is a legal agreement between two parties that testifies to a meeting of minds between those consenting entities. It is not a religious act or rite and so has nothing to do with Adam and Eve or Steve or even Harvey. I often say that if you want to really want to understand the contract of marriage just ask anyone who has been divorced. The marriage contract is one of property rights. Or maybe you can look in the bible to see what Adam had to say about divorce since Eve was his second wife.

So, while we rightfully celebrate the election of our first African American president, let us take a moment to mourn the passage of three new laws legalizing prejudice. Of course there will be those who claim that voters were only protecting the institution of marriage to whom I would suggest it is just as likely that Obama's supporters were only voting against W. Breaking the lock on my door doesn't make your home any more secure.

While we dance in the streets and pat ourselves on the back for being a nation great enough to reach beyond racial divides to elect our first African-American president let us not forget that we remai...
While we dance in the streets and pat ourselves on the back for being a nation great enough to reach beyond racial divides to elect our first African-American president let us not forget that we remai...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 670
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (15 total)
11:18 PM on 11/15/2008
I am a gay man who lives in the Bible Belt. Even if Prop 8 had not passed, I don't hope to be able to wed my husband legally where we live in my lifetime. I don't even expect that if I get marriage lite (a civil union) for it to be recognized federally because of DOMA. So why does it matter so much that Californians can't get married now?

Because there is no reason for them not to. We have allowed religion to get entangled with government and civil rights and we should not have. While the religious right attempts to rewrite the founding fathers intent, there really was a wall between religion and government. Religion was to form the values that let you vote your and your constituents consciences, it was not to be a part of the political process as it has become.

I don't want to be married in a church that would not celebrate my marriage to my husband. Why anyone would is beyond me. That doesn't mean that I should not have the rights and priveleges that heterosexual married couples take for granted. It just means I won't be attending certain churches.

For those who say that this is a moral issue, then don't marry a person who is the same sex as you. I won't come to your wedding and you don't have to come to mine. But I don't think you shouldn't have the right to wed the person you love either.
08:43 AM on 11/12/2008
I've been appalled at the chorus that has arisen about how black folks have not supported the gay community because some of us have voted Yes on Prop 8. Consider this malcontents: Since when are black folks NOT part of the gay community; you're racism is showing. Secondly, why don't you take a page from our struggle and learn that you cannot place a referrendum of CIVIL RIGHTS. Marriage equality is a RIGHT, not a privilege ---- it must be legislated. Imagine if black equality in marriage, employment, public accomodations, etc, had been put to a vote in the 1950s and 1960s?

Wake up; stop scapegoating black folks, or anyone else; and get to work to enact LAWS to protect gay marriage rights!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
arachne646
No more hurting people--Peace
12:42 PM on 11/13/2008
"Black people" did not get together and pass Prop 8. If there is a specific Church or Denomination that advocated it , criticise them. But if civil rights can be taken away so easily, my 28 year marriage might be retroactively invalidated next. My progressive Christian congregation is a minority in society--if we got to be too disturbing or shocking, our tax-exempt status could easily be voted away, or we could be banned. Civil rights don't come from laws--our Constitution says we ALL are created with them. Don't start attacking other minorities for not supporting human rights--educate people who are scared by the concept and confused by hate ads; and fight against unconstitutional laws that let the majority vote on the human rights of a minority.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rhdsma
06:18 PM on 11/13/2008
Do we need a Constitutional Amendment to ban divorce, polygamy, marriages outside one's race and religion. How do we balance the scales of injustice?
I and my family supports the rights of gay couples to share in marriage. Always will. Marriage is about LOVE. Yes, two persons of the same gender can love each other. There is nothing wrong with this. So why would we deny marriage rights to anyone? Is this bigotry what we need to support to make our children's lives happier when they grow up to make their own choices? Do we deny marriage rights, because we deny marriage rights? OR, we can support the concept that everyone can join in the benefits. Marriage cannot be the disqualifier to equal rights.
11:10 PM on 11/15/2008
Is it racist to say to a friend, "I am angry because you said I shouldn't have the same rights as you?" Or is it simply anger because you thought the one person who would understand on the visceral, gut level that separate but equal is wrong, that it's equality for all or equality for NONE, didn't, and now you are venting that frustration?

Are there African Americans in the gay community? Yes. Are there gays in the African Amreican community? Yes. We will come to realize this, but probably only after some nasty things are said on both sides. It's the oldest Republican tactic: pit your enemies against their friends, and reap rewards. They have done it for years with African Americans,gays, feminists, etc.

As for saying "Do something to enact LAWS" just exactly what do you propose we do right now? We are still reeling from a blow to the stomach, and the coup de grace is that one group we thought would understand, didn't. One group who KNOWS how it feels to be less than full citizens said "But it's ok that you aren't full citizens." Don't you think we have the rigth to be mad?
07:32 PM on 11/10/2008
I would like ask that the heterosexual community apply for a domestic partner or civil union license instead of a marriage licence.

I would also request insted of saying your are married, you say that you are DP'd, or civil unioned, and that you refer to your spouse as your partner.

Then you are in a better position to decide if seperate is really equal.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Isobel White
02:49 AM on 11/13/2008
Thank you! I am practicing saying my "wife." It still feels uncomfortable, to be totally honest, but I'm just gonna say it until it isn't.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
05:17 PM on 11/10/2008
Don't underestimate the lies the churches were telling. All the mormons seem to believe that if gay marriage is legal then their churches are going to be forced to marry gays (to each other I mean, they already marry plenty of gay people to straight people).)

I live in Utah. Southern small town Utah. And I'm sick of people being denied their basic civil rights. I now have signs in my front window saying "Gay Rights Are Civil Rights".
01:18 PM on 11/12/2008
I support you!
03:36 PM on 11/10/2008
Right on! As a an African-American male, I am very, very disappointed at the Black communitiy's stance on this. This is a civil rights issue and if there is ANY group that should understand what it means to have rights taken away just for being human, it is Blacks. I don't understand the disconnect.

I guess it is up to some of us to help drive this home. The religious left played a big role in civil rights issues in the past. I don't think MLK Jr. would approve of this.
01:57 PM on 11/10/2008
Harvey, you are right. It is ridiculous. The whole equal but different thing is a joke.
I am sure there are a lot of religious folks in the gay community, but let's face it, this primitive thinking goes hand and hand with religion. So long as people in power believe in talking snakes and arks, we can't expect them to think clearly.
Mormons, Catholics, Scientologists and Evangelicals etc. should all pay taxes. This government support of delusional people must stop now.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
tucsonarizona1
What is the frequency, Kenneth?
01:27 PM on 11/10/2008
Precisely. It sucks being treated like a second-class citizen.

Against gay marriage? Don't have one!!
12:27 PM on 11/10/2008
Amen, Harvey. You'd think we'd have this "civil rights" thing figured out by now, but I guess some people feel the need to deny something to somebody else in order to continue feeling like they're part of a special, chosen group. Note to the self-proclaimed chosen ones: that is discrimination, pure and simple. Call it what you like, but there it is.
Personally, I think consenting adults should be able to legally unite in whatever form they deem best for them, whether that's one man, one woman, or a man and a man or a woman and a woman, or a man and a couple of women or vice versa. All should be granted the same rights under the law. But that's just me.
11:15 AM on 11/10/2008
Harvey,

this is a great article. Often I read articles on the huffington post and they make clear much of the issues i try to explain to my conservative family members. Much of my family is LDS and have a hard time separating the issues of church and state. I feel compelled to challenge them to contemplate what exactly they support and why. They are great people who i believe need to be taught and informed is all.
So, when I read this well written article I automatically thought to send it to my family members to explain the situation better than I am able... but then i come to sarcastic sentences such as "Or maybe you can look in the bible to see what Adam had to say about divorce since Eve was his second wife. " which i know will only put them on the defensive-causing them to close their minds.

I think like Obama, if you will approach an article such as this important one while considering people like me who would love to share this with a more conservative audience then maybe its a step closer to change. Just a thought. Great article though.
01:12 PM on 11/10/2008
If "Or maybe you can look in the bible to see what Adam had to say about divorce since Eve was his second wife." hurts their fee fees, then maybe they need to stop being treated with kid gloves so they can grow up a little. If they're Mormons, then they go to a bigoted church. I don't pull punches with my Catholic family members on issues as important as this. You shouldn't either. My folks are big enough to admit they've been wrong and that their church is wrong. Hopefully yours are, too.
10:20 AM on 11/10/2008
Harvey, where's YOUR mention of YOUR refusal to continue to pay equal taxes for less than equal rights? Melissa Ethridge is right and everything would go a lot smoother if more gays and lesbians got on board.

Put yourself in the self-righteous heterosexual's shoes for just a moment.

Want to to give equal rights to gays and lesbians? Uh.... no.

Want to give equal rights to gays and lesbians or give them a tax break for having to accept less than equal rights, a tax break you can never get? Uh... well... wait a minute here.... let's take another look at this. You know come to think of it, it doesn't hurt me one bit for them to marry....

I've pitched this for 20 years and no one ever answers why NOT focus more on the tax issue.... but I'm glad Melissa Ethridge got the idea whether from me or just out of plain ol' common sense. Why doesn't this article mention her name, let alone work with her to start a real movement of gays who refuse to continue to pay equal taxes for less than equal rights?

Before she stepped up to the plate, my heart went out to all gays and lesbians over this issue, but now that she has and it looks like the rest of you are leaving her out there to try and do this alone I think "Show a little civil disobedience or at least explain to us why you won't."
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
09:13 AM on 11/10/2008
Being religionless (not Godless) by choice, and considering that my sexual preference, and my relationship to both God and the person I partner with in this life are intimately private and personal experiences, I say you can rename marriage whatever you like, dress it in a clown suit and color it turquoise...

When some are denied the same basic civil liberty others are permitted to enjoy it's descrimination.
MHT73
words matter
10:12 PM on 11/09/2008
Why not have civil marriage, and religious marriage? Civil marriage would be state-sanctioned, and open to all. All legal benefits and responsibilities would accrue to partners in civil marriages. Religious marriage would be up to each religion, and most would opt to have both. BTW, my religion, Unitarian Universalism, has supported marriage equality for years.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
10:26 PM on 11/09/2008
I think most of us would agree that that is the most expedient and sensible solution.
Paulo1
Thanks for reading, (even if you disagree)
10:31 PM on 11/09/2008
MHT73, The simple answer is that that is exactly what was at stake. No state and no gay organization has every mandated or sought to mandate a religious marriage for gay people. Faiths like ours have offered to marry gay people in the eyes of God, family and faith for years, My partner and I know Rabbi's Ministers, Priests and Imam's who will perform the ceremony for us if wanted. Many outside of the sanction of their own faiths. We joke about the need for an extra reception just for the clergy.
What was at stake was the civil rights and responsibilities of marriage. The tax benefits, health care rights, social security and a host of other privileges provided by the state to committed couples. Somehow bigots translate that into a Religious Marriage. Must be in some new fangled bible: "And he said to go forth and file your income tax heterosexually" didn't get that copy yet and as a good UU you would think I would be up on it. Go figure.
MHT73
words matter
01:11 PM on 11/11/2008
Paul01 - I think that we agree on the fundamentals, but that I could have been clearer. I was proposing the use of the terms "civil marriage" and "religious marriage" because I hoped it would convey the difference between the civil issues and the religious issues. While there are people who will never be convinced to support marriage equality, there are many who are open to persuasion, but don't quite get why civil unions aren't "close enough" for fairness. You're right, marriage carries with it many legal rights (many more than you've listed), and it's important to preserve those. The word marriage also conveys a lot about the couple's love for each other, and that's important too.
So, let me try again. We currently have 'civil marriage' (sanctioned by the state) we call it 'marriage.' We also have 'religious marriage,' (sanctioned by the state and by a religion), again, we just call it 'marriage." If we clarified that there are two forms of marriage - civil marriage and religious marriage - and that civil marriage was all that was under discussion, it might cool down the tone of the debate. Not for everyone, but perhaps for enough people to tip the vote the other direction.
Also, I wasn't trying to suggest that any religion had a monopoly on inclusiveness, just trying to be clear that not all religions would oppose same-sex marriages.
Hope this is clearer, and all the best to you and your partner!
08:57 PM on 11/09/2008
Harvey, I love you. You cut through it all, you're amazing and without you the community wouldn't have such an amazing guiding light.
08:25 PM on 11/09/2008
Someone may have mentioned this already.

We could, of course, declare (as a country) that marriage is strictly a legal thing.

And only legal when someone at the courthouse is in charge.

Religious marriages are fine and dandy, but of no legal standing.

By the way, a few years ago I was talking to a nice Baptist woman in a small, conservative country town who agreed with me that with the decline in any kind of marriage in our area that people who really did want to go through the ceremony ought to able to.
07:58 PM on 11/09/2008
In having read over several blogs, and as a GAY male myself, have we just thought of fighting for the term CIVIL UNION, but including more taxes incentives and couple- friendly liberties or benefits in our definition of a CIVIL UNION than what a marriage currently receives? Those against GAY marriage don't seem to mind getting more from their religious marriage than those for Civil Unions, so why don't we request more and think-out what it should mean for ALL who want to be joined in a Civil Union that would be more advantageous than a marriage. This in time (I believe) would even have rational minded couples getting unionized versus married. Could this work?
09:44 PM on 11/09/2008
Probably not. Marriage will always be at the top of the pecking order. Civil unions will neveroffer more benefits than marriage.
11:23 PM on 11/15/2008
Certainly, as African Americans should have tolerated separate water fountains, restaurants, and schools. After all, it wasn't like they didn't have water in their water fountains, food in their restaurants, and education in their schools. Separate but equal is tried and true!

Seriously, i don't want marriage lite. I don't want something that looks like marriage, but lacks the substance.

But maybe that is just me. Having grown up in Alabama and having learned about some of the things done to African Americans here because of their race may have influenced me just a little.